Does anyone know when Scotch stopped producing 203 tape??
- Thread starter SongJohnn
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moogplayer
New member
203 is excellent tape. No sticky shed problem. I am thinking they stopped making it in the 80's, with most of it's popularity in the mid-70's
lonewhitefly
Active member
203 was introduced around 1962 and was made until approx. 1973. you can tell the era by the box design. based on my own research, i believe the earliest had the big "203" at the bottom with the top half of the box colored black. around 1968 or so, they switched to the smaller logo. i believe the last boxes had a green color and "203" printed in a new logo.
203 was not a specific formula, but rather was the 1.0 mil version of 202, which was the poly version of 201 (acetate, which was standard when it was introduced). 203 is very common because by the time 206 and other "high-ouput" tapes came out in '68, 203 became a low-cost standard tape alternative that seems to have been used by radio stations and home hobbyists. this is why you see a lot more 1/4" 7" NOS tapes -- either that or scotch produced way too much or something ... but 201 is harder to find and 202 is really rare.
203 was not a specific formula, but rather was the 1.0 mil version of 202, which was the poly version of 201 (acetate, which was standard when it was introduced). 203 is very common because by the time 206 and other "high-ouput" tapes came out in '68, 203 became a low-cost standard tape alternative that seems to have been used by radio stations and home hobbyists. this is why you see a lot more 1/4" 7" NOS tapes -- either that or scotch produced way too much or something ... but 201 is harder to find and 202 is really rare.
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Sorry to take so long to get back to this thread.....Lonewhitefly, thank you so much. You have no idea how much that means to me! I'm SUPER obsessed with using tape made in the '60s and '70s. I bought a reel of 1/2" scotch 203 and use it with my 80-8.......and honestly compared to newer reels of Quantagy 456 I have.....well... it sounds a lot more old and wooly. No joke. It actually sounds like The Doors... where the newer tape I have sounds a lot more distortion-free. I'm honestly in favor of the older more distorted sound.
But as we all know, there's no real way to date tape unless you were there in the '70s and bought it new...
But to hear they stopped making this tape in '73 is sort of refreshing....that's very old! The real I bought was sealed! Maybe you can estimate time-period by looking at this picture of it....
Anyhow you can really hear the grain in this recording......this is a piece a junk recording but it shows the old "sound" of 203.... the bass is a late '60s violin bass and the guitar is a 70's homemade job...the mixer is a '79 Teac 5B, tape machine is a '77 80-8 and the outboard tape echo is a Univox EC-80 made in Jan '77.
Here's more...cleaner sound with a '76 Octave Cat synthesizer...now you can really hear how distorted this tape is !!
with vocals...
But as we all know, there's no real way to date tape unless you were there in the '70s and bought it new...
But to hear they stopped making this tape in '73 is sort of refreshing....that's very old! The real I bought was sealed! Maybe you can estimate time-period by looking at this picture of it....
Anyhow you can really hear the grain in this recording......this is a piece a junk recording but it shows the old "sound" of 203.... the bass is a late '60s violin bass and the guitar is a 70's homemade job...the mixer is a '79 Teac 5B, tape machine is a '77 80-8 and the outboard tape echo is a Univox EC-80 made in Jan '77.
Here's more...cleaner sound with a '76 Octave Cat synthesizer...now you can really hear how distorted this tape is !!
with vocals...
lonewhitefly
Active member
that box looks like late '60s to me, in fact, i doubt that you'll find much 1/2" 203 from the '70s. it's really the sound of the '60s; scotch introduced 206 in '69, so that pretty much took over, 206 is really the sound of the early '70s in terms of tape. 201 was the studio standard from '63 or so through '68. of course, these are general dates, there are always exceptions and spillover, etc. after '69, 201/202/203 was relegated to consumer/hi-fi/radio status, which is why 203 (1.0 mil) 1/4" is the most common to find. where did you find the 1/2" ? i have a roll of 1/2" 206 that looks just like your box.
keep in mind, in those days, people functioned differently. i think they held on to 201 in some cases instead of 202 because poly was kind of new and acetate was the old standby. and i believe they used 203 when they needed more time on the tape.
don't ask me how i got all of this info, i guess just having an obsessive mind and putting a bunch of information together, mainly based on old pictures and the boxes themselves, reading interviews with engineers and producers from the '60s ... the main reason i care is because 202/203 is my favorite tape.
cool sounds !
you may be interested in hearing samples from a couple records i just finished, both mixed to 203 on an ampex 440 ...multi-tracks were recorded on an 80-8 ! didn't have any old tape for the multis, they were done on a variety of +6 tape. also mixed with a teac 5 board ! (seems we have a lot in common):
Odd Zen Ends / Begin Thee Again | Magic Hero vs. Rock People
keep in mind, in those days, people functioned differently. i think they held on to 201 in some cases instead of 202 because poly was kind of new and acetate was the old standby. and i believe they used 203 when they needed more time on the tape.
don't ask me how i got all of this info, i guess just having an obsessive mind and putting a bunch of information together, mainly based on old pictures and the boxes themselves, reading interviews with engineers and producers from the '60s ... the main reason i care is because 202/203 is my favorite tape.
cool sounds !
you may be interested in hearing samples from a couple records i just finished, both mixed to 203 on an ampex 440 ...multi-tracks were recorded on an 80-8 ! didn't have any old tape for the multis, they were done on a variety of +6 tape. also mixed with a teac 5 board ! (seems we have a lot in common):
Odd Zen Ends / Begin Thee Again | Magic Hero vs. Rock People
Here's a link to a list of data on 3M tape types by Delos Eilers and housed on the AMPEX discussion list site:
3M Audio Open Reel Tapes
It tells you introduction date and other pertinent data for pretty much all 3M tapes, though not the end of production.
Cheers,
Otto
3M Audio Open Reel Tapes
It tells you introduction date and other pertinent data for pretty much all 3M tapes, though not the end of production.
Cheers,
Otto
lonewhitefly
Active member
yes, mine is the first one on this thread!:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/general-discussions/analog-only/analog-studio-photos-313474/
lonewhitefly
Active member
yep, that's a great resource ... that's the site that helped me sort out the 201/202/203 thing!
Eighthnote74
New member
Hello, I see this thread is old but it appears there is some knowledge here that may help me understand Scotch recording tape.
I have an Akai GX-270 D reel to reel. The manual specifically reads to use Scotch #211 Low noise tape. Considering the age of this deck I would assume that tape is not only no longer available but there's better tape out there that would do the job better. If someone here could educate me about the number 211 and give me some info on what I should be using I'd be very much appreciative. Thank you in advance...............
I have an Akai GX-270 D reel to reel. The manual specifically reads to use Scotch #211 Low noise tape. Considering the age of this deck I would assume that tape is not only no longer available but there's better tape out there that would do the job better. If someone here could educate me about the number 211 and give me some info on what I should be using I'd be very much appreciative. Thank you in advance...............
lonewhitefly
Active member
There are several factors to consider IMO:
1- Technical limitations of the deck -i.e., can it operate with a higher output tape?
2- Long-term stability and availability of 211
3- Aesthetic preference for a particular tape and/or a particular tape’s sound on a particular machine
1- No idea myself, as I’m not familiar with that deck
2- Not sure, but would guess it’s likely similar to 202 and would perform fine, perhaps with some degree of fragility. The link ofajen sent above: 3M Audio Open Reel Tapes … seems to indicates that 211 is the same as 176, which appears to be a later incarnation of something resembling the tapes in the 111/202/206 family.
3- This comes down to personal taste - for instance, I prefer Scotch 202 for mixdown on decks like the 1960s Ampex pro machines, but think Scotch 206 sounds better on something like the Teac 3340. I also used 206 or even Quantegy 406/456 on multi-tracks, as 202 does not hold up as well to repeated overdubs etc. I like Ampex 631 tape on the little Ampex suitcase machines … so IMO there is something to be said for using a tape formula that the deck may have been designed around. Main takeaway here is: there is no replacement for personal experimentation if you are looking for a particular sound or picky about that sort of thing.
If it were me? I would grab an NOS reel of 211 from eBay without hesitation, and try it out. I would also personally compare that to the sound of a more “modern” tape like Scotch 207 or Quantegy 407 to see which I like better. I would not buy new tapes, but I think there is an RMGI (or whatever it’s called today) formula that is equivalent to 207/407 but someone else with more familiarity can chime in there. The question seems to be whether or not your particular deck can calibrate up to the “modern” tapes. If you are going to get into this sort of stuff today, there is no longer really an organized support system for these things so you'll need to find a local tech (and/or be good with electronics yourself) and find your way using your own experience. This particular forum is the best resource IMO, but activity here has dwindled within the past few years, and places like Tapeheads might be better suited for info these kinds of machines (I don't participate there myself, as it's geared more toward the hifi crowd as opposed to the creative recordist).
1- Technical limitations of the deck -i.e., can it operate with a higher output tape?
2- Long-term stability and availability of 211
3- Aesthetic preference for a particular tape and/or a particular tape’s sound on a particular machine
1- No idea myself, as I’m not familiar with that deck
2- Not sure, but would guess it’s likely similar to 202 and would perform fine, perhaps with some degree of fragility. The link ofajen sent above: 3M Audio Open Reel Tapes … seems to indicates that 211 is the same as 176, which appears to be a later incarnation of something resembling the tapes in the 111/202/206 family.
3- This comes down to personal taste - for instance, I prefer Scotch 202 for mixdown on decks like the 1960s Ampex pro machines, but think Scotch 206 sounds better on something like the Teac 3340. I also used 206 or even Quantegy 406/456 on multi-tracks, as 202 does not hold up as well to repeated overdubs etc. I like Ampex 631 tape on the little Ampex suitcase machines … so IMO there is something to be said for using a tape formula that the deck may have been designed around. Main takeaway here is: there is no replacement for personal experimentation if you are looking for a particular sound or picky about that sort of thing.
If it were me? I would grab an NOS reel of 211 from eBay without hesitation, and try it out. I would also personally compare that to the sound of a more “modern” tape like Scotch 207 or Quantegy 407 to see which I like better. I would not buy new tapes, but I think there is an RMGI (or whatever it’s called today) formula that is equivalent to 207/407 but someone else with more familiarity can chime in there. The question seems to be whether or not your particular deck can calibrate up to the “modern” tapes. If you are going to get into this sort of stuff today, there is no longer really an organized support system for these things so you'll need to find a local tech (and/or be good with electronics yourself) and find your way using your own experience. This particular forum is the best resource IMO, but activity here has dwindled within the past few years, and places like Tapeheads might be better suited for info these kinds of machines (I don't participate there myself, as it's geared more toward the hifi crowd as opposed to the creative recordist).
