A cassette multi?

The549

a hack
I just acquired an 8 track TOA MR8T. It has a multitrack studio master cassette tape in it, and it has 8 tracks...but how do they work? It's not the cartridge type tapes....it looks like a cassette but I have no idea how it differs.

Are there four tracks on each side? What's the quality like? Can you record on more than one at the same time? I don't have the outputs needed to test it now and I'm really curious as to what this thing can do.

Any help or comments are greatly appreciated!




ps - I did do a search....no mention of 8 trackers.
 
It's an 8 track recorder. You can record eight seperate tracks of audio on it and then mix them down to a stereo master.

And it's one way only.
 
You'd bring all eight tracks back into eight channels of a mixer and assign them to the stereo buss.
 
Do you have headphones? You record 8 different parts, one at a time and then play them all back together.
 
The549 said:
So basically I would use it to do a final mixdown to tape?

It’s not a mixdown cassette deck, if that’s what you mean… it’s a multitrack with a basic mixer. You record tracks on it just like you would on a DAW – up to 8 at once, by selecting any or all of the REC buttons across the front panel (right below each bargraph meter). You can use the simple mixer on it to mix your tracks to your PC, CD, or a separate cassette.

During recording you adjust the REC level knobs for each track, and upon playback use the monitor LEVEL and PAN controls to adjust the mix. Select the REC buttons for the tracks you want to record and deselect for playback.

The MR-8T was a lesser-known contemporary of the Tascam 238. It runs at double speed (3.75 ips) and has DBX Type II noise deduction.

A 60-minute cassette will give you about 15 minutes of record time in one direction. It takes high bias cassettes like TDK SA or Maxell XL-II.

The knob on the front that says SYNC ON/OFF disables DBX on track 8 for laying down a sync track. It should normally be in the off position.

:)
 
Wait, are you saying I could monitor the playback level for each track in realtime during playback by adjusting the volume knobs for any channel?
 
So there are 8 tracks running parallel on a tiny little cassette?

I think this will be a fun one to record some punk stuff on...


Thanks a whole lot, guys.
 
Back in the 4 track days,we used to mix down to a stereo VHS VCR (L R audio ins ) for a smidge better fidelity. You can probably find them pretty cheap now.
 
nice find...

might be old hat, but i'll mention it.. after the brick of 60 minute maxell xl-II, make just three more investments, okay two...

get a box of cotton swabs and head cleaner because i know from experience that you are probably gonna be rolling more than a few hours a day in less than ideal conditions -- with time and gunk tapes can shed like a hot cat... it's been said a million times before, but don't clean the roller with the head cleaner... a drop of warm water in the q-tip does wonders if you only dampen it and let it dry...

find that guest pillow down on the couch, steal the pillowcase and run it through the wash. when it dries, slip that 8-track inside it whenever you aren't using it -- keeps everything but liquids out and keeps fingers off the buttons...

one more thing, i found a trick to tape tension on 8-track cassette, but you have to be mindful of where you are on the cassette... i have really short songs, by and large, so i put two or three one way and two or three the other... just leave a good cushion of space in the middle of the tape... this keeps you from have to shuttle on the last half of the tape which often stretches or develops wow after a few takes -- especially in a hot room... also, give it about thirty seconds leader... tension just seems consistently better on most four and eight tracks over the first 1/3 or so of the cassette...

good luck!
 
I paid $125 total for it...I was worried all I could do was bounce tracks (whatever than means) or record only 2 or 4 tracks at one time.

When you say leave a cushion in the middle of the tape...does that mean you nomrally leave maybe 30 secs in between each song? I'll be doing 2-5 minute songs.

Wow...once I get the funds I'm excited to get a mixer with direct outs/bussing and test this thing out! I actually want to get a firewire mixer or analog one with a multitrack pci card - so I can have a digital multitrack on the PC to edit and de-humanize and a hardcore multi mix on the tape.

The knowledge base here is extremely impressive!!!


My last question is, if I keep the head in good condition (with your cleaning tip), what kind of quality do you think I can produce?
 
eight tracks...

yes, 30 seconds or so between the tracks is perfect...

here's a couple more ideas that might help you get a good sound... i say good, because in well over a decade of cassette multi-tracking, i have never heard anything that has a great sound from myself or any of my many talented peers... of course there are great performances, emotive and amazing, but the fidelity is what it is and that element forces you to make material that transcends the limitations... it's much easier to be mediocre and get away with it if you have a budget... imho, we have a hundred years of recording to back up that theory...

mess around with all sorts of stuff by yourself... try out different microphones... different instruments... use the whole room... try to isolate and eliminate the hums and grumbles from the electrical system... you are gonna get some hum, but you can make it so you have no line noise or at least not much without really expensive power conditioners... turn off nearby televisions and computers and turn dimmer lights either all the way on or all the way off...

once you are familiar with the machine, try to get all the basic tracks of music recorded live... it puts just the right kind of pressure on a band to know that it is a moment to be captured... make sure you play the very loudest song for a soundcheck and levels and allow for the inevitable fact that the band will be even louder when it is showtime... once you have things dialed in, make sure that the guitarists and bass player leave their volume alone... i know it can bruise an ego, but be honest if you already have enough coming in and it sounds good... from a technical standpoint, this will make all the bleed between mikes make sense and with 8 tracks you have plenty of room for separating everyone and vocal overdubs later... because you are cramming so much stuff on a little strip of tape, it is very important to record the bass and drums on the outside tracks -- 1 and 8 -- so if they are a bit too hot (loud) they can only spill into one adjacent track and not two...

try to isolate the drums as much as possible... blankets, an old couch or futon mattress behind a kit and it can take alot of the sound reflection out of the wall behind the drummer... stuff a sweater in the kick if it is too loud... punk is nice because for the most part the drumming is old school and not alot of dumb extra hardware clutters things up, but if you have a guy with four toms who can't tune them, it might be time to have him try just a snare, kick, ride and high-hat... high squealy guitars? kill the high hat and tune the snare down... swirly thick fudgy low fuzzy guitars? let the snare snap a little more and be less afraid of the high-hat... it is best to keep the snare and overhead mics away from the high hat to avoid hearing nothing but hiss... drums are a nice flavor in rock, but i think cassette just doesn't have the dynamics or the room to have the next geddy lee or whatever... get all rock-a-billy though, and it can sound amazing... there is a very short line between eddie cochran and the clash and understated, but tight and powerful drumming is the key... in my own music, i have found the styles of hal blaine and ringo starr to be more effective than keith moon... it's not a judgement call, it's just the medium...

i have also found that electric guitar is best recorded by turning up smaller amps to a sweet spot rather than trying to mic and isolate a big stack... some rediculously small amps have been used on some very loud rock from the sonics and dave davies of the kinks on down to the present... a fender champ or a slightly modified channel from an old tube tape recorder -- roberts and akai are favorites -- makes a fantastic studio guitar amp with plenty of crunch when those little tubes drive a big speaker without bleeding into all the other microphones...

give the bass player -- at the very least -- headphones and use a DI box... make the bass player buy his own and he or she won't lose yours... it is a really simple passive device that makes it sound nice going straight into the machine... if he or she wants a little more warmth, for a few more bucks he can move up to one of the so-called mic preamps they sell for around 50 bucks that really only sound good on bass... for cassette multi-track, the bass sound is the toughest, but whatever you do, don't resort to a mic on the speaker... you can go mad trying to make that work... just send him or her out for a direct box at the least... he or she will need it live anyway...

if the band needs a vocal for reference, put the singer in the middle if you can so that everyone can read his or her lips... try not to record an amplified voice, but a direct mic from a live take is alright if the tinkering is done... live vocals are fine in everyone's headphones, but having a bad lead to mix around later when the lyrics and cadence have changed and the old version is under everything is impossible to fix, so no pa unless the arrangement is set in stone and then a little won't hurt...

at this point i would avoid bouncing tracks, trying to get quality separation on a mixdown of eight tracks is enough trouble without trying to take care of phase and level issues down the road... i am guessing that you don't have $1,000 speakers... few of us do... if your machine has 8 outputs, i would find a friend with protools and a tile bathroom... if you have that, you can record the music with all the leads and whatnot, dump it into his or her box and overdub the vocals right there in the bathroom... because it is on the box, you can do endless takes without stretching your masters or worse yet, having them eaten...

to avoid having tapes eaten make sure you have:
a) clean heads and roller
b) a fully rewound tape between days of recording -- don't just pick-up where you left off tuesday, tension changes in no time at all...
c) even power -- i once worked in a place where the pitch changed when the folks who lived upstairs used a toaster oven and another where the fluctuations from a distant space heater instantly messed with the servos on my transport and made them run in opposite directions...
d) store your tapes in your dresser... most folks have a nice dark and dry dresser... most musicians have a clean clothes pile and a dirty clothes pile, so there is plenty of room for masters in the dresser...

most of all, have fun... in the end, i think the fun of a moment is what you are trying most to capture when tape spins... some accidents are still legends, so don't be afraid of the lumps... that is part of what is charming about lo-fi... i hope some of this was helpful to you... good luck!
 
Wow, that's a lot of information!

Yeah my plan will be to record through a firewire mixer, so I will have the tape records and the multitracks on the computer. I'm not gonna worry about synching one with the other; they'll be seperate beasts. I'll probably have 16 mulltis on the pc and buss the audio to 8 tracks for the tape. I think I'll have a good amount of control by using a mixer with direct outs and busses.

I've looked everywhere for info on cassette multitrack, and I have to say that article of a post you put up is the most information available about it on the entire internet. So thanks so much everyone who has helped shed some light on this machine.
 
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