Help choosing mic pre

S

sibleypeck

New member
I need a mic pre, EQ, and comp/limiter in order to record palatable vocal tracks, and don’t know enough about it to make an intelligent choice.

I am using an EV RE20 and have a SB PCI 64D card. The mic is LoZ, with an XLR cable; the sound card has 1/8” mic and line inputs.

I am wondering whether the dbx ProVocal (at $269) would meet my requirements, and in what way it differs from the dbx 376 (at $467) that would justify the extra expense.

If you can tell me for certain that one, or either, of these products will work in my setup, and what may be the advantages and disadvantages of both, I will be eternally grateful.

Here are the links:
http://www.dbxpro.com/ProVocal.htm
http://www.dbxpro.com/376.htm
Spec sheets are accessible under the “Additional Information” menu on each link.
 
Some suggestions:

- M-Audio DMP-3 (2-channel pre) + FMR RNC (2-ch comp)= +/- $370
- MindPrint Envoice (pre, eq, comp, lim) = $500
- Joemeek VC1Q (pre, eq, opto-comp, de-ess/enhance)=$600
- Drawmer MX60 (pre, eq, comp, lim., tube-emul., de-ess) $500

You could add a $545 Speck ASC parametric EQ to the DMP-3+RNC combo, that would make something like $900, but then you GOT SOME FINE SHIT GOIN' ON! (at least, that's what *they* say... ;) )

YMMV
 
Gidge is right.
Your soundcard will be a weak point in your signal chain. It doesn't matter what you spend on your preamp, your soundcard will let you down.
 
Gidge, Speedemon, Markd102,

I do plan to get a new sound card – most likely a Lynx One; maybe a CardDeluxe – but not now.
Your mic pre recommendations are all good ones, but I feel I shouldn’t spend four or five hundred dollars on vocal processing at this stage. Right now I only want to step up to the next level in vocal processing: one grade better than what the SB PCI 64 can deliver. Slowly, on a budget, I am building a project studio, and I just bought a pair of monitor speakers.

Nevertheless, I would like to know what it is that you like about the products you recommended, and what it is about them you feel would be suitable for my particular application.

And still, I would like assessments of the ProVocal and 376, and opinions about whether they would meet my requirements.
I really need for someone to take time to read the spec sheets on those products, see if they would even work with the setup I have now, and (later on) with the Lynx One, point out their shortcomings, and recommend any product they know of that would work better for the same money, in my particular application.

I realize this is a lot to ask, but maybe somebody will take up the challenge.
 
Any $$ involved in this? :) ha ha.

The dbx's all get some pretty mixed reviews. It will be tough to find yourself a definitive analysis like the one you seek. It will be tough to find any opinions at all, actually. Either way, and I hate to sound so cliche on this, but the specs really aren't what matters. Specs just don't make something sound good, although they can contribute.

I don't know of too many fans of the dbx gear, overall. And it's not a matter of their gear being poor, or of low quality. They are a good company that makes good products. Most people just don't find them anything overly special or wonderful. I've talked a lot about the theory of spending either $200 or $2,000. I hope I don't re-open that debate again, God help us all. :) Anyway, the theory is that there really isn't much in the "over $200" range to justify spending over $200. Once you start getting in to the $600 range, there are some definite candidates, but nothing really definitive jumps out untill you get closer to $1,000 and over.

It seems that what you are looking for is a "do-it-all" voice processor -- mic pre, eq, and comp/limiter. Here are some of my candidates:

* Symetrix makes a few models, notably the 528E, that do all of these things, and they tend to sound quite good. And with a setup like the 528, you probably won't need to step up to anything nicer untill you're ready to make the big jump in to the $1,000 + category. You'll find a lot of people who are happy with it. It probably specs out just as well or better than either of the dbx processors you mention, has just as many features, and sells at a lower cost.

* Joemeek also makes some vocal processors in the $200 range that sound flat-out great on certain things, although they won't give you as many features. The Joemeek MQ3 may even sound better than either of the other processors. The drawbacks: Very little controll over EQ and Compressor's parameters, and no peak limiter or de-esser.

One last note: Keep in mind that we're all trying to train ourselves not to rely too much on specs. They only tell a very small and rather insignificant part of the story. :)

Hope that helps. Good luck.
 
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chessrock,

I understand what you are saying about specs. I suppose I exaggerate their importance because I have such a difficult time deciphering them.

What I really want to know is whether I can plug my mic into a piece of gear, and plug that piece of gear into my soundcard. And whether that piece of gear will plug into a Lynx One or Card Deluxe, later on. That's all I'm after. I just don't want to buy something and then find out I can't use it unless I buy something else.

Despite a lack of technical skill, I do have a critical ear and will not be satisfied with a severely limited EQ section.
Also, I need to tame vocal peaks, so I don't have to spend endless hours editing velocity.

I must tell you, it means a great deal to me that you took the time to reply to my post.
I had not heard of Symetrix and am very intrigued by the prospect. I am looking forward to doing a little research.
What is it about the 528E that you thought might be suited to my particular application?

Will a personal check do, or do you prefer a money order?
 
Paypal is fine. :)

If peaks are a concern, then the Joemeek's compressor might not cut it . . . you'd probably need something with a limiter. The reason I say this is because the Meek's compressor, although it sounds great, is rather slow and isn't necessarily designed to tame peaks.

The Symetrix I mentioned because it has all of the features you mentioned you were looking for (preamp, eq, com/limiter), it gets positive reviews on how it sounds, and it's very inexpensive.

As far as compatibilty goes . . . luckily, in the audio world you don't find all of the compatibilty issues you do in the computer world. Any channel strip will be "compatible" with a computer/soundcard setup. All you do is go from the Line Outputs to the Line Ins on your Sound Card. And any processor will have line outs and any Sound Card will have line ins, so compatibility won't be an issue.
 
chessrock,

I have investigated the 528E and it looks like the perfect processor for me. I am waiting on a quote from a mail-order house.

Thanks so much for recommending it.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
How about the VX2000 by behringer. Its supposed to be a Focusrite voicemaster knockoff with a digital out. for 129.00.

The way I see it is you can do worse than to emulate Focusrite.
Click to expand...

Yea, but if you're going to copy a focusrite, why the Platinum of all things, for cryin' out loud? Aaarrrgh ! ! ! :(

Why not do the right thing and rip off the Focusrite RED ? ! ! !
 
chessrock,

I just received a quote on the 528E: $565. Is that about what you would expect?

I read all that I could find on-line about the 528E, and it is a VERY impressive piece. I love the EQ section, and think it a good sign that it delivers a full 48 volts phantom power.
I expected it to cost more than the ProVocal, but had hoped it wouldn't be quite so much more.

Any chance of finding one USED? Probably not a good idea, eh?
 
Radio World recently reviewed the Behringer VX2000 (March 1st, 2002) Because the Symetrix 528 is such a staple in radio VO booths and production rooms it was compared directly and for that application.

The review was quite favorable of the VX2000, they did NOT say it was better than the Symetrix but did award a "thumbs up" for: Well constructed with quality components, larger than life vocal compression, simple panel layout and for being extremely inexpensive.

The negatives were: limited EQ and what do you use the tube emulation stage for?

Again, the unit was being reviewed in a broadcast application so YMMV.

Ed
 
That's very funny. :) All those radio guys not understanding what to do with the tube drive.

Kind of like when musicians don't know what the side-chain is for on a compressor/eq.

Can't argue that the mighty B makes some decent stuff every now and then. You just have to be aware of the poor QC. I would still feel better about a used Symetrix than I would a new Behringer. They tend to sell for a lot less on the used market, too, which is a good thing.

Sibley, I'd hop on eBay if I were you. In fact, there are a couple up for bids right now, one of them from what appears to be a pretty reputable ebayer. http://search.ebay.com/search/searc...=0&st=2&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&BasicSearch=
 
chessrock said:
That's very funny. :) All those radio guys not understanding what to do with the tube drive.

Kind of like when musicians don't know what the side-chain is for on a compressor/eq.

Click to expand...

:) yep, that made me smile also.

However, in fairness to Mr Peterson who wrote the review in Radio World he said,
"it adds a quasi-tape saturation effect to the signal path.. I'll be honest in telling you I could come up with no instance when I would need such a process in broadcast audio.. there certainly is not a tube to be found in the VX2000.. If I were..I would use mic modeling software.. it is there if you need it.."

Really, who wants to listen to a dj or news guy on the radio with his voice distorted. Also, I think it significant to point out that the "tube emulation" does not have a tube in the signal path.

Ed
 
Maybe we could all learn a thing or two from the DJ's on this one. I'm assuming there's a lesson to be learned from it. :)
 
chessrock,

I have been watching the bidding on ebay for the 528E, and want to share what I have seen.
Although the current bid price has changed from $149.99 to $310 in the last few days, the current high bidder (the are only two) actually placed his bid first. It looks like the other bidder made five or six attempts to out-bid the one, and then gave up once he was willing to go no higher.
The interesting thing is this: The current high bidder has never bought anything on ebay, but he has RETRACTED bids on two occasions. Should he retract his bid on THIS item, will bidder number two will be obligated to purchase the 528E at his final bid price - the highest of his six bids - even though will have been, in reality, the sole bidder?
 
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