Am i on the right track with a good vocal preamp?

R

ryanwoollerton

New member
Hi there,

Im into making house music so i only am looking at recording vocals.

The mic i think i have selected is the Rode NT1- a which i believe is pretty good bang for buck. I now need to pair it with a nice preamp to bring out the vocalists and mics full potential.

I hear a lot of good things about the FMR RNP preamp. Does this sound like a good preamp to use? Or is it a little too much seeing as im only recording vocals?

Thanks
 
ryanwoollerton said:
Or is it a little too much seeing as im only recording vocals?
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Vocals are the most critical preamp application (IMHO) there's plenty of pres that will sound perfectly fine until you put a quality mic and vocalist in front of them. Not many other audio sources have such subtle dynamics and nuances.
 
MOFO Pro said:
Vocals are the most critical preamp application (IMHO) there's plenty of pres that will sound perfectly fine until you put a quality mic and vocalist in front of them. Not many other audio sources have such subtle dynamics and nuances.
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Right, i see!

So is the FMR RNP pre good enough to take quality vocal recordings?
 
MOFO Pro said:
Vocals are the most critical preamp application (IMHO) there's plenty of pres that will sound perfectly fine until you put a quality mic and vocalist in front of them. Not many other audio sources have such subtle dynamics and nuances.
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I couldn't agree more.

As for the RNP specifically, I have always found this preamp to be a fantastic value. In fact at that price point i can't think of a preamp that i would recommend over it.
 
tewfus said:
I couldn't agree more.

As for the RNP specifically, I have always found this preamp to be a fantastic value. In fact at that price point i can't think of a preamp that i would recommend over it.
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Great thanks very much for your feedback! love anymore opinions on this preamp please :-)
 
MOFO Pro said:
It's a great place to start... good clean affordable gain... your second pre can start working on character...
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When you say "your 2nd pre you can start working on character" , do you mean that the RNP pre would plug into another preamp in order to achieve some character? (2 preamps in the signal chain)
 
ryanwoollerton said:
When you say "your 2nd pre you can start working on character" , do you mean that the RNP pre would plug into another preamp in order to achieve some character? (2 preamps in the signal chain)
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He prolly just means the RNP lacks "character" and if you get it, you would have to find one that has "character" when you are ready to upgrade (they say a studio is always a work in progress...or something like that). I'm however also looking for suggestions on a good VOCAL (I can't stress this any harder) pre. Actually pre AND converter. Maybe it would help if we specified our budgets. For me I am working with 3k...for a good pre and converter. Any suggestions? Are there Channel strips within this budget ($1500) that are worth the price-tag? And on the other hand I have heard/read nothing but good things about the apogee duet audio interface. Someone at GC told me it's "the best interface you can get for under 2k". But I have a feeling i can get better quality/results if i get seperate units of pres and converters with a 3k budget...anyone?

Thanks.
 
If you're using a $230 mic, spending $3K on a pre and convertor is bonkers.

With a $230 mic, you don't need a special pre or anything, just get one of the all-in-one interfaces and you're fine. If you want to spend $3K, get a Neumann U87 for $1500 used off of eBay first and then a pre like people have suggested. Maybe add a 1/2 rack Summit compressor for character ($500 - 650). You can use the Neumann for years and sell it at a profit - try that with most gear. Some people like the Art tube comps and they're dirt cheap.

Spending $3K on a pre and converter for a cheap mic would be like putting a $10K paint job on a $500 used Kia.

Here's my true feelings - get one of the all in one interfaces with mic pre's built in, there's a zillion in the $100 to $600 range, and start recording some songs. I wouldn't get hung up on spending money on stuff that you don't know you need. When I buy stuff I really know that I need it because some need has come up during a song.
 
chava said:
He prolly just means the RNP lacks "character" and if you get it, you would have to find one that has "character" when you are ready to upgrade (they say a studio is always a work in progress...or something like that). I'm however also looking for suggestions on a good VOCAL (I can't stress this any harder) pre. Actually pre AND converter. Maybe it would help if we specified our budgets. For me I am working with 3k...for a good pre and converter. Any suggestions? Are there Channel strips within this budget ($1500) that are worth the price-tag? And on the other hand I have heard/read nothing but good things about the apogee duet audio interface. Someone at GC told me it's "the best interface you can get for under 2k". But I have a feeling i can get better quality/results if i get seperate units of pres and converters with a 3k budget...anyone?

Thanks.
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I would not recommend any preamp/converter unit for the simple fact that if either stage fails, you lose both while repairs are being made. The FMR RNP is a fabulous piece of gear, especially in view of its price. I just did a remote of a 1920's Baldwin grand piano with one being fed by a pair of Sennheiser MKH40's and got results far beyond expectations. The Great River NV line of preamps, listing @ $1400 - $2800, are on the other end of the cost spectrum and are worth every cent. (Full disclosure: I sell FMR & Great River products. I only carry things that are in use daily in my own studio.)
 
dintymoore said:
If you're using a $230 mic, spending $3K on a pre and convertor is bonkers.

With a $230 mic, you don't need a special pre or anything, just get one of the all-in-one interfaces and you're fine. If you want to spend $3K, get a Neumann U87 for $1500 used off of eBay first and then a pre like people have suggested. Maybe add a 1/2 rack Summit compressor for character ($500 - 650). You can use the Neumann for years and sell it at a profit - try that with most gear. Some people like the Art tube comps and they're dirt cheap.

Spending $3K on a pre and converter for a cheap mic would be like putting a $10K paint job on a $500 used Kia.

Here's my true feelings - get one of the all in one interfaces with mic pre's built in, there's a zillion in the $100 to $600 range, and start recording some songs. I wouldn't get hung up on spending money on stuff that you don't know you need. When I buy stuff I really know that I need it because some need has come up during a song.
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Thanks for your input dinty. First, yes I am using a cheap $300 mic...for now. When I say I have a $3k budget for pres and converters, I don't mean that that's all the money I got to spend in total. I do have some money set aside for a DECENT mic...just not the U87 you suggested but the Mojave Audio MA-200 which I have used at a friend's studio and absolutely love (besides, I cannot afford the U87 right now...maybe later). And the reason I insist on getting seperate units for pres and converters over the "all in one interfaces...in the $100 to $600 range" is that I've been there, done that. Time for an upgrade for me. The only reason I asked about the apogee duet interface ($500) is because there is too much buzz about it out there and I don't wanna spend 3k on seperate units which the duet can/will embarass in performance. Now, back to my original question...any suggestions?
 
RRuskin said:
The Great River NV line of preamps, listing @ $1400 - $2800, are on the other end of the cost spectrum and are worth every cent.
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I love those preamps. Arnound the same price range I also like the Brent Averill BAE 312's
 
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RRuskin said:
The FMR RNP is a fabulous piece of gear, especially in view of its price. I just did a remote of a 1920's Baldwin grand piano with one being fed by a pair of Sennheiser MKH40's and got results far beyond expectations.
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Hi Ruskin..interesting observation right there. I have heard a lot of nice things about the FMR stuff...how do they fair on vacals? I only record vocals...everything else is synths.
 
chava said:
Thanks for your input dinty. First, yes I am using a cheap $300 mic...for now. When I say I have a $3k budget for pres and converters, I don't mean that that's all the money I got to spend in total. I do have some money set aside for a DECENT mic...just not the U87 you suggested but the Mojave Audio MA-200 which I have used at a friend's studio and absolutely love (besides, I cannot afford the U87 right now...maybe later). And the reason I insist on getting seperate units for pres and converters over the "all in one interfaces...in the $100 to $600 range" is that I've been there, done that. Time for an upgrade for me. The only reason I asked about the apogee duet interface ($500) is because there is too much buzz about it out there and I don't wanna spend 3k on seperate units which the duet can/will embarass in performance. Now, back to my original question...any suggestions?
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All I can really recommend is the stuff I've used that I know sounds great. I use a John Hardy Twin Servo mic pre (2 ch) and I have a pair of Summit TLA-100A tube comps. The Jensen is what it is, incredible cream of the crop stuff. I love those Summit tube comps as they always sound great and you never have to to hardly touch them.

If you check out the Summit stuff, they make some 1/2 rack mic pres and comps that I haven't tried but having dealt with Summit for 20+ years I trust that they won't make anything but very good, pro stuff. I have 3 Summit pieces of gear and have never had any regrets buying it. It's lifetime gear that will be being used long after I'm gone. Most of the stuff at Musician's Fiend is kinda disposable!
 
If you're recording your own vocals, you'll have to try some stuff out. Mics and preamps are both very important, but it's pretty hard for us to suggest the best pairing. It's like guitar amps. There are good ones and bad ones, but there's a large range of good ones, and depending on your style, your guitar, etc, one may be great or not.

In my experience, a great preamp can make a cheap mic sound very good, with the right singer. A great mic through a mediocre preamp tends to sound mediocre.

Haven't used the FMR, so I can't speak to that one, it may be great. If it's me, I'm looking for a Neve clone. I've had very good luck with various models, even with cheap mics (like an MXL V67g that I got for FREE!)

I like vocal preamps with color. I think most people would, if they've used one. But it does need to be the right color!

The Groove Tubes brick that I had for a while sounded fantastic on one female singer's voice. Not too great on anybody else, but with her it was perfect.

I realize my advice isn't really advice. Book some time at studios around town, see what works for you, and replicate that. Or just book time to record your vocals.
 
chava said:
Hi Ruskin..interesting observation right there. I have heard a lot of nice things about the FMR stuff...how do they fair on vacals? I only record vocals...everything else is synths.
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They sound excellent on vocals and anything else you care to present to it. The DI is really nice as well. One of my clients uses his with older RCA and B&O Ribbon mics on a regular basis and loves the results.
 
+1 for Great River NV. (I have never used a FMR RNP, though) - they are surprisingly versatile, given how few controls there are.
 
I've got a general question about preamps, maybe the most general of them all - do I need one? Thing is, when buying things for my (home) studio, I've always followed the rule that I only get stuff when I actually need them, i.e. that I arrive to a point where I realise that I'm missing something from my sound, and I know what it is, and I know what sort of equipment will help me out.

And I've never felt that I need a preamp - like Chava, I only record vocals and the occasional electric guitar, for which I use the preamps on my recording console (now A&H ZED420, before RAM RM16) ... and whatever goes in also comes out so to speak. In other words, I'm happy about the quality of vocal recordings I'm getting, and have even been complimented on it at times by people in the know.

I've tried out the occasional preamp, all of them below €1k/$1.5k (JoeMeek, RNP, DBX, Aphex, SPL, M-Audio, Presonus), and most of them closer to half that amount used, and I couldn't tell the difference when it came to the finished product, i.e. the final mix (my own - amateurish, with mistakes, but presentable). I was half-prepared to buy any of them if I liked it, but I didn't think what they were doing was worth the money asked. I mean, if something costs €700, I have to be able to tell that I've used it and appreaciate it for it in my book. So basically what I'm asking between all the thinly-veiled bragging going on is whether I'm doing the band and myself a disservice, Gene Frenkle-style, by not capturing the best possible vocal sound, but only one that's good enough. Am I?
 
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