Wow, microphone addiction

When you've gotten used to grabbing something for a while and continue to grab for it 99% of the time---then it has proven its value to the music you're recording. New gear is cool and all, but I like some of the older "tried and true" stuff even more. That said, it's certainly a great time to be a small project studio [with all of this gear coming at you from every direction nowadays]:)
 
Start saving your pennies,ladies and gentlemen.I think Stephen Paul is going to build his mic.At around $1250,it will be kind of expensive for us bottom feeder types but it will be a bargain compared to its direct competition.If you are going to sell your soul for a mic,this one might be the one.Course if I get one I'll definately have to upgrade my pre.Please somebody shoot me!!:D :D :D
 
Musicians & Recording

I can't tell if most people n this site are musicians or engineers or a combination. Anyway, in light of what has been said above, I tend towards the idea that engineering is much like playing an instrument. A beautifull vintage Steinway or a Stradivarius in the hands of someone that cannot play is useless and will not sound great. However, in the hands of a master, well...And I suppose the same holds true on the other side of the coin. A master can make an average instrument sound great. So, how to become a master. Well...grasshopper...practice! For those that are musicians, I sometimes think that a great pice of music will be forgiven its shortcommings on the recording quicker than a lousy piece of music that is badly recorded. I always wonder how subjective is this whole art of recording and how much does our response to just the music effect whether or not we think the recording is good or bad or, in keeping with the subjective whether the recording "works". Just wondering out loud (actually, I am rather quiet and the only sound is the tapping of the keys on the keyboard)
 
You're absolutely right, Jack.

Once I read ina a magazine that Producer Bob Ezrin said that if David Gilmour was handed an ukulele it would still sound great 'cause of the person that was playing it.

I think the same applies to recording, and stretching out to style matters. There are styles that we like or not and it will affect if I like a recording or not. For example, I like punchy drums but not big sounding ones. That will affect the way I listen to a record not mattering if technically it is well recorded or not.

But, in the other hand, GAS is real and i can't help to keep reading about this or that mic or preamp or whatever. (I can't afford to buy them, so I read about gear. That's my addiction, sad but true) :( But I like it :D :D

But even though Alan may doubt this ;) I will buy a C1 someday!
 
You know what was a gas for me, well it was seeing someone who created a good sounding piece of music with only knowledge and minimal gear.

now hands up how many could do that?

I know i cant so what use is it to have all the mic pres and mics you desire if at the end of the day you dont sound any better to me seeing was believing and when i saw i soon got over my lists of gear and now have settled in reality with what i know i need as aposed to what i thought i needed.

And after hearing what i heard i can tell you this you can waste as much as you like on gear if you dont have a studio or an income from it the benefits of owning all you desire weighed up against what your returns will be like are minimal

but if you still want the gear anyway that then is your own business.

Sure it all can be fun but a reality check has to be taken every now and then just to see your still walking the same planet we all are.

go get yourself a few sm 57,s some good leads not the cheap stuff a couple of decent mic stands and a simple 4 track machine maybe a good compressor or two and a decent multifx unit like a roland srv3030 this should enough to start with learn to use this stuff inside out and push it to its limits while also trying to produce the best you can now if your not going to get results using this equipment do you really believe anything more expensive is going to save you?


1x sm57
1xroland srv3030 fx unit
1xBehringer composer pro
1x rnc compressor
1x tascam 414mklll
two decent mic stands
a few decent leads balanced female to male xlr,s
1xpair of sony mdr 7506 headphones
1 or 2 patchbays with decent patch lead
1x small rack

the above gear is all tried and true gear all of it could be sold of quite quick if you became bored with it all without breaking the bank to badly

while some may say ohh tape no good id say learn to use it first and learn what it does before you knock tape many poor results are the direct result of poor technique and lack of knowledge with a not so well thought out recording enviroment

so yes you too can record and do a dam fine job with the above it doesnt take a million bucks to record but if you can turn out great recordings with the above equipment list then it will be worth it going further but if you cant utilise whats been listed above save yourself the time money and heartache of having to fire sell gear that you will never get back anything near to what you paid out for it

anyway i hope a few new people who read this will realise you dont need all the gear now what you more need is a sound knowledge of what your doing first and to understand why your doing it if you want gear try the little list above then maybe do here and study up on the subject

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

the manual here is brilliant its simple and will teach you alot of what you will need to know so go and read up while your saving and enjoy your recording on a basic level if after all this you dont feel this is for you at least you didnt go broke finding it out.
 
I can't resist to question your logic. treblas. why the roland FX? the money spent would be much better used on one the nice and quite inexpensive condensor mic's around these days, such as the mxl 603's (the mxl67m with the cheap price...) or even the ecm8000(which i haven't tried...). Rathering that learning to put effects onto sound, the new recordist would learn how to use a condensor mic, which will really give them a lot more room to experment. I don't think they need to pass a sm57 test. one of those is nice to have, but these days a nice condensor is in the same range. say goodbye to cost prohabition. my list.
1x sm57 used
1x condensor of your choice.
1x a nice single channel mic pre(you can get another later)
1x recording media I'll agree on the tascam, but no need to get a new one, any old one will work (the porta two i have still works like charm just dont use the eq or mic pre) these days 1/4" reel-to-reel 4 and 8 tracks are real cheap, so consider that...orif you already own a nice computer one of the lower price sound cards such as the m- audio delta's...
1x mic stand and XLR cable
I think one could create something really nice sounding and learn a lot with this set up, plus it would be cheaper...just my two cents. ps. don't be afraid of mono, stereo was just invented so they could sell you two of everything!:)
 
"Oh my"
Click to expand...


I can't resist to question your logic. treblas. why the roland FX? the money spent would be much better used on one the nice and quite inexpensive condensor mic's around these days, such as the mxl 603's (the mxl67m with the cheap price...) or even the ecm8000(which i haven't tried...). Rathering that learning to put effects onto sound, the new recordist would learn how to use a condensor mic, which will really give them a lot more room to experment.
Click to expand...

Why not the roland srv3030 a decent unit for the price which will do more then what you require on your level it will also last you some time as well before you fire sell it off on ebay after you discover your recordings dont sound like the cd,s you listen too :)



. I don't think they need to pass a sm57 test. one of those is nice to have, but these days a nice condensor is in the same range.
Click to expand...

What use is the condensor to you in your bedroom im sure the sounds of your feet shuffling on the carpet and the breathing into your mic will sound great on your recordings in your untreated recording area real good be sure to post your first recording with a condensor it will be intresting listening

if you have not mastered an sm57 i am sure a condensor wont assist your cause.

My list was reasonable any of the gear i listed was thought about

its not a compertition here about who is right and who is wrong but the point is learn to crawl before you walk because you may sink before you even learn to swim
 
I think I came of a bit harsh trebals, I don't mean to offend(canadian)...I guess i was just trying to say that I really think a condensor mic is something to have these days. An effects unit is something that i'm not really into. as to hearing my recording.
goto www.deerandbird.com

in the sounds section you'll find some of my recordings. They were all done using simple stuff. mono, usually with one mic.

"What use is the condensor to you in your bedroom im sure the sounds of your feet shuffling on the carpet and the breathing into your mic will sound great on your recordings in your untreated recording area real good be sure to post your first recording with a condensor it will be intresting listening "

my feet shuffle all the time. you can't really acousticly treat them

:) and i just tried to stop breathing. I didn't work. so i rented a $1000 an hour studio. I STILL coundn't stop breathing!!! whats wrong ??? :D
 
Maybe a dumb question but..

are the MXL's pretty good cheap mics? My funds are almost non'existent.
 
I totally agree with trebles

I think that there is so much more of an emphasis on gear than recording skills. Look at the amount of posts on this site talking about this or that mic. Look at all the gear bashing or praising as compared to the number of posts on getting a better sound from the gear you have. I am directing this post to myself more than anyone. I find myself knowing much more about gear (including stuff I don't have) than I do about tracking, recording, and mixing. That depresses me.

But it surrounds us. Recording magazines, even the ones without the ads, focus on gear reviews. It's tempting to think that your mixes don't sound good because you don't have $1000 mic pre or the new tube mic or the new sonic flaggelator, etc. I shutter to think how much money this site has generated for musicians friend, guitar satan, sam ash, etc? Makes me wonder why the fuck they aren't advertising here.

Anyway, have a listen to any of Erland's song at the clinic. Mixed on a 4 track with a dynamic mic. Sounds better than any of my mixes with all my gear.

Shit something's wrong here. Let's start focusing more on the music and less on the gear. This site has so many members with immense amounts of varying musical and engineering knowledge let's start tapping it.

Sometimes less is more and your limitations help encourage creativity.
 
my point is this do you really require a condensor right now if you are achieving good results with what you got.

a condensor aint going to spell magic recordings your technique and knowledge along with a well treated enviroment would take you further then a condensor at this stage

you may well think of getting a small approiate selection of condensors when all the above criterium has been met maybe then you will see the benifts when you know why and what you seek.
 
I can't argue that a great room is really what makes a great recording...a condesor can really let you hear that room though..
 
agreed

but in the mean time if your doing great with a cardioid why change essp if you have not treated your enviroment

now iam not assuming that you havent

all iam saying is if you have not done this as yet maybe thats a good place for you to start first as what you feel is a better mic will only show your enviroment up for what it is

In a controlled enviroment the best mics do sound good but alot of that is controlled enviroment, correct technique, and years of experience now of course the gear you use then will add to the quality but then you have a reason to have that sort of gear as you then earn a living from recording and you have a certain client list who feels happy with what you use but on the other hand you can have well picked out gear do a good job and still keep clients but again that depends on how good you are and that then stands before quality equipment .
 
I think the only thing that is missing from this list is monitors. In order to gain experience in recording you need to actually hear what you are doing.
 
lt bob get yourself an sm57 and a well made cable to go with it avoid cheap mic cables at all cost just dont buy cheap cables
 
Ikiru

First of all i,ll say by your first post i did kind of take you the wrong way, im sorry its just how it came across to me.

See i myself made the big mistake of thinking the mics and the gear would just fix all but the truth is they wont.

Only you can do this, the mic and the gear are only tools, in the right hands you can create a masterpiece, but without knowledge on how to use your tools its just a waste of time and money.

I had a listen to your recordings, i could not work out which ones were yours as im not sure what your name is, all the same i have some points to make about them.

It sounds like you record alot of 4 track pieces, they sounded intresting they never grabbed me with any hooks or lines that kind of made me think any further then the inital listen but all the same they were personal and they are yours.

You do seem to have a very experimental feel and the way you express yourself seems pretty much whats in your head at the time you write making sound and lyric fit together is a real art sometimes you dont want to make them fit together either its just how one feels there is no write and wrong way there is only your way

Now if this is the case that is you write whats in your head without thinking too much thats not a bad way at all to do this but what i would say is when you have this rough format down take the songs away and listen once or twice put them away and come back to them in a few days time listen again maybe take some notes on what you hear break it all up like the lyrics think about what you have laid down and ask yourself does this all fit well if so leave it if not look for other pieces to interact with your words

experiment also with speed of playing and pitch and tone of voice and instrument maybe try and lay tracks in different ways sometimes just playing the guitar and keeping time then adding your vocal over the top for the next track.


I really feel you would do some real justice to what you do having a decent fx unit like the one i sugested and also a compressor believe me simple tracking is good but you may just find what your looking for with some light effects delays and reverbs are nice when used in the correct way even picking different room settings will suprise you they may add that sparkle your looking for also they may give youfurter ideas on what you like and what you dont always use fx as little as possible unless you are trying to add a certain feel to your overall mix

anyway the two songs i thought you could maybe do something with in my opionion that is if you did have any plans would be abird and burquitlum plaza with some work with lyrics and timing and then some subtle effects these could be nice finished personal works of yours anyway just my opionion not a critisism
 
"I think that there is so much more of an emphasis on gear than recording skills."

Well said. Tools represent nothing more than the potential to create something perfect. Without knowledge, they are useless. Let the learning curve begin with what you can afford to buy now. Jump in and get your hands dirty. Write some songs...master your voice or instrument. Experiment. Record as much as you can and try new things--even silly ideas. In the meantime, study what the experts have to say about mic placement, EQ, using compressors and limiters, reverb and such. Get an understanding of things like the 3:1 rule, gain structure, etc.

If you research and buy smart, some of the stuff you bought last year will interface with that better system you are finally able to put together now. At some point, you'll start getting those close to pro results by applying knowledge earned on the the way. Then, its time to decide on getting those few pieces of high end gear that will really move your production to the next level. Thinking it can be done by just buying the gear is a foolish notion.

The other thing that is too often forgotten is the song itself. The best studio, engineer and producer in the world isn't gonna make a poor song into a masterpiece. My personal belief is that a killer song dictates production ideas and can even take attention away from less than perfect engineering. In the end, its about the music.

I've sold a couple thousand CDs of my group, and nobody ever said "I'd like this song if you cut 3db at 120 on the kick drum." Fact is, most people listen to the music, not technical details. Not to say that quality recording is not noticed by the average Joe, because I'm sure everybody has a favorite recording based on how GREAT its sounds. Nobody listens to terrible songs, though.

Here's my point: if I could afford the very best of everything I would certainly use the highest quality of gear available. As it is, I get the best that I can afford at the time. Slowly, I have gone from a Fostex X-15 and a couple of Teac 4 tracks to a 24 bit digital system, with better pre's, mics, effects and such. I still want to get more high end stuff. Quality gets better and better, but half of it is that I have learned how to make the existing gear work to get the sounds I am after. Sometimes I fail, too. So its a continuing learning process. In a nutshell, get what you can afford, study all you can and strive to make excellent music. Then, upgrade as you are able. If you do the above, its a no-brainer that your music and recordings will continue to improve. Don't be discouraged by anyone who pontificates that you "can't make pro recordings on inexpensive gear." You can--its been done a thousand times.

Thats my long winded 2 cents!
 
I haven't felt the need for a new mic untill recently. I've been very pleased with what I have

Sm57/Sm58/MXLv63m/U87A

but..
I have to shell out for a new AKG C3000B
 
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