Improving muddy vocals

I

iancl

New member
I don't mean I want to make a muddy vocal track better, but in the future, what is the best thing to (the best word I can think of is 'sharpen') my vocal tracks.

Signal chain is not something I'm proud of by any means:

JTS NX-9 (Cheap) SDC -> Yamaha MG 16/4 -> Laptop Line-In (Sigma-Tel if that makes any difference above/below average line-in quality...)

What I would like to know, is apart from everyone who sings improving their vocals, what sort of improvements can I expect from:
Upgrading my mic (probably to an NT-1a)
Getting a FireWire or USB soundcard (about FirePod quality)

Then on top of that, what else can I do? Common plug-in improvements to vocals would be compression and EQ. I use EQ when necessary, but avoid it if I can. Compression I barely use, but fiddle with occasionally, and do not really know what to do with it. It's NOT going to fix my problem is it? If anything, would worsen it?
 
Try a dynamic

Hi,

I think your problem is in the SDC mic. Now I have no experience with that particular mic. But most SDCs are not the best for vocals.

Try a Shure SM58 or an AKG D770 or an EV PL80 or some other dynamic vocal mic. You could spend $50 to $100 and solve your problem.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
Well, I think upgrading the mic and pre/soundcard are certainly worth the effort. Also look at the acoustic environment in which you're recording. "Muddy" is often the result of poor acoustics with low-mid frequency build up. This is less likely if you're only recording vocals, but improving your room is always a good investment.
 
I'd agree that the problem is probably the room you're recording in.

The sound card can also make things sound worse, especially the onboard ones that come built in most computers. Even a soundblaster is a step up from those.

But the first thing I would look into is the room, as that will have the biggest effect on the vocal recording.

There are a lot of cheap things you can do to get a better vocal. You can make a small vocal booth, or even record into a closet filled with clothes. Or put a mattress against the wall and sing in front of that. It will at least help a little.

Starting at the other end of the chain is working backwards, imo.

But you will still need to upgrade your sound card eventually.
 
How close do you have the vocalist to the microphone? I think that getting too close can sometimes muddy things up. Also, how hot are you recording the vocal track? If you're close to peaking, you could be getting some distortion, but then that may not be what you mean by "muddy."
 
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Buy an SM57 to see if that helps. This mic won't pick up much of your room, so it kind of nullifies that part of the equation. Buying a condenser mic (like the Rode) may sound better/different, but know that in general condenser mics will pick up more room's sound, which I'm guessing in your situation is a bad thing. Try close micing with dynamic mics.

SM57s can sound great on certain vocals. Even if it doesn't sound great on your voice, it will be a good mic to have around for other purposes.
 
I'll echo what has been said in previous posts.

Treating the area that you're recording vocals in will be your first step. I'm assuming that money is an issue. If so, do some research and pick up a good LDC to get you started. The LDC, in combination with the dynamic SM57 that was already mentioned, should get you a good starting point. When you get the mic(s), it might be a good idea to make the leap and get a small USB PCI, or FireWire interface (soundcard). There are plenty out there that can be had for cheap. M-Audio, PreSonus, etc.

Do you have a budget in mind? What sound are you going for? Where do you record? Can you provide a picture? Do you record instruments? If so, what kind? What are you using for monitors (speakers)?
 
Pretty much every budget mic I've used sounded muddy or else had a harsh top end, and sometimes both. The AT2020 might work well for you, since the low end is rolled off. It also has a smooth sounding top end, leaning on the bright side and sits well in a mix. It's one of the few Chinese mics that I think is decent for entry level recording.
 
Thanks heaps guys.

Mics:
I've always kinda assumed the condenser would be the best bet, but (to answer Myriad) I record drums, so I have a bunch of dynamics that I can use (and in fact HAVE used in the past).
I'll have a listen to the tracks I've recorded with dynamics in the past - they will be worse quality recordings in general, but may have better vocal tracks. We've used a Beta58 (and a Beta57 an i5 off my kit) in the past. Thing is, I'd always just assumed dynamics would have less detail and wouldn't be what I was after, but never actually properly compared the mics I've got.
I will grab an NT1-A soon hopefully, since it will sound better, even if it doesn't help this specific problem.

The room:
Yes I imagine you're all right, I would love to have a nicer room. I used my basement which is pretty much the one part of the house which is solid concrete, without plaster walls. When my house has no-one in it, which should happen for a few days in a few weeks, I was actually planning to make an effort and move my whole drum kit up into the living room which should have better acoustics. I may as well move round my whole house with the mics and see what room's best for vox too. I'd like to improve my room, but hopefully I won't have to record in it for too much longer, so I don't want to spend money on physically altering it, and then leave it! If I end up thinking the room is a problem I'll probably try some temporary improvements with homemade traps etc. I downloaded ETF5 a while ago, but it was so frustratingly simplified in the demo version I soon gave up on the idea.

The soundcard:
Yes, I'd like to have a proper soundcard. This is not likely to happen in the near future though, since it costs so much, and I want to be certain what I want to buy before I go ahead with it all. I have recently been looking into making my own, with a decent A/D converter, and a USB microcontroller to relay the digital signal. Not easy, but not TOO hard. Been fiddling with a few electronic things recently, all just for fun, but this would be fun and constructive.

Monitors:
This is one of the reasons I didn't want to buy an interface, since I've recently been realising the truth about how important good monitors are. I'm tossing up between buying the mic and saving that money towards the monitors. As important as they are however, they won't improve this particular problem.

I'm not sure if I have any questions now, but if this brings up any new points, please make them!

Thanks again,

Ian
 
Well, it all basically boils down to the room being the largest problem. You might want to do what you suggested and scope out the other rooms in the house.

As far as buying things...I've spent A LOT more than I care to admit on this little hobby.
 
The JTS mics are ace and very under-appreciated. But what you've got isn't really a vocal mic! Pick up a JTS NX-8, which is voiced quite similar to a Beta 58. It's a neodymium element which lends towards good dynamic range and sensitivity or something or other ............... basically it sounds really good. I bought a couple as spares in my PA kit with my Sennheiser E845s and TBH I find them pretty interchangeable.

That condenser NX-9, on the other hand, is specifically described as not a vocal mic in the JTS catalogue! Whether a Rode NT-1A is any smoother on the high end, though, is going to be very questionable.

But I agree with everyone else - room! Sort that out and you'll be away. Lie, cheat and steal with blankets, sofas, beds and whatever else you can find. Stand with your back to the most absorbant surface. If other reflections are still killing you, you might get away with an SE Reflexion Filter and not need to do anything majorly permanent to your room.

I've played on major label releases that were recorded in relatively untreated rooms that are designed more for creating an atmosphere for the 'talent' (cocky singers, mostly) ... it's not easy but you can improvise your way to a good sound if you need to.

Now if only I could get it right for myself ........... :eek:

Nik
 
Yeah I think the NX-9s are better suited to use as overheads (which I bought them for). I think I need a mic with a bit more bottom end, so I assume these have quite a big cut at the bass end.

I've done a bit of fiddling with all the tracks, and I'm getting better results from spending more time and concentration on mixing the vox tracks soloed. Saw a good quote the other day in a thread that studios "mix multiple tracks to sound like a 4 piece band, rather than mix multiple tracks to sound like a 20 person choir" and it indirectly brings up many thoughts to improve my tracks, so thanks to whoever said that.

I'm going to be doing some vocal music of my own soon, so I will be able to test out all the rooms in my house, along with anything else I can improve the sound of, including my voice!

Thanks.
 
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