We All Love Distortion

timmerman

timmerman

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Distortion? I think most of us like it, but how do you get it? Do you use the one which is already in your amp, or use a seperate floor-unit or......

There are many distortion-flavours, and most of them seem to be based on popular sounds from the 60s, 70s and 80s.

So to get all these different sounds you could buy a lot of different pedals, or you could try to get the most out of the pedals you already have. Makes sense eh?

So let us say you have this available:

# one distortion pedal
# one EQ pedal
# a splitter-box to go from one input to two outputs

So now we could make, let us say subtle sounds[not so in your-face-distortion] Use your slitter ,on one side, for straight sound and the other side for distortion. Now you can mix both sounds and blend them to how you would like it.

You could buy a line-selector [e.g. a Boss LS-2] this could work as a simple mixer or a splitter-box or an A-B box. With the line-selector you have a little bit more control over the levels which come from both channels.

If you have a recorder or an amp with a effect-loop you could put your distortion-unit in the loop and mix the volume with your straight level. All too easy eh?

For putting more bite into your distortion-box you could use the EQ to add colours which are lacking in your distortion. So you can turn a mild distortion into a more agressive box. You can experiment with various EQ pedals , e.g. you could try a parametric EQ which is more subtle than a grafic EQ

If you have a few distortion-pedals you could mix them to create a different kind of sound, so you could set one at a mild level, and the other one could be more extreme. If you blend them both you will create a new colour.

As far as sounds I think in opposites: for the bright pick-up I use a dark distortion sound to make it stand out, rather than enhancing the sound of the pick-up, and for the dark pick-up I use a reverse strategy.

Of course with all of this, you could just buy the gear for what kind of sounds you would like, but you could also use "limited" gear, and get the most out of it. So using small amps to create big sounds.

So what kind of techniques do you use to get distortion-flavours? Do you use dedicated gear, or just experiment with what you have got?

Eddie de Timmerman
 
timmerman said:
So what kind of techniques do you use to get distortion-flavours? Do you use dedicated gear, or just experiment with what you have got?
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I record direct through a tube pre, monitor through an amp simulator but record the clean tone. That way during mixdown I can change the simulator parameters as necessary. This is also nice for doubling guitar parts as I can change the distortion on the doubled track.
 
my distortion sound comes 100% from my Mesa/Boogie tripple rectifier.

just set it to use sillicon diodes, turn it to "modern" mode, turn up the gain, and there you go.
 
Right at the moment it's one dirty, one clean. Clean Deluxe and an Ampeg Jet with a Tube screamer, and an Ernie Ball stereo volume/pan pedal to blend.
 
I use a River TBR2-SL as my main amp which is the best amp I have ever used in 20 year so working with dozens and dozens of amps, It will give me fulll on sludge to a nice suble overdrive. No pedals neeeded.

but as a producer I work with lots of guys that love their own amps and I love having the wide tone pallet. For amps that do not have a tone of gain, the best results often come from using modest gain from the amp and kicking it over the top with a little bit of gain from a pedal.

For any kind of gain, I have yet to hear a solid state amp that can touch a decent tube amp.
 
Distortion?.......I knew we all love talking about it, read any guitar mag. and there is very often an article about this subject. It does not even matter whether you open up a recent magazine or one of ten years ago, distortion is one of the guitarist favourite sounds.

I love it that anyone has a different approach to getting their tones, and the solid-state/tube discussion seem to go on for ever.

Boingoman you said you use a TubeSreamer, which one? Have you tried the Ibanez 808 yet? It is a really smooth pedal. I have A-B ed the 808 against the TS 9 Turbo, and though the Turbo gives you more sounds, the 808 is smoother.

So Rona you said you use a River TBR2-SI, is that a boutique amp? I also like,as you, to use different amps, and I really like the idea of taking a practice-amp and then to use a Sansamp to warm up your sound. I know it kind of sounds weird: It is too easy to use e.g. a Fender Bassman, or a JMP-Marshall or a Fender Twin and to get happening tones, so I'll go for somehting small an warm these amps up in different ways. I also play guitar through bassamps, and of cours, less treble, but you can make up for it with some kind of EQ or whatever works.

The Tube/Solid-State[strange word by the way] has made me curious what this is all about. So I have bought some valve amps[mainly old ones] over the years, and I have to say I like them too! But I would'nt say Solid-State has no place.

Really nothing new eh? What about bad sounds? Does anyone of you believe they are there? Is it not that any sound is useable? So any piece of gear has got his own merrits. Sometimes it makes you wonder why we pay so much for certain pieces of equipment, of course, there is the brand, the reputation of a certain product and how well known something is. Take e.g. the Ibanez Tubescreamer, they are not cheap compared to Boss' version. So can Ibanez justify their price? Well many people will want a Tube Screamer, because such and such are using them, so they must be good.....Well I am no better, but I will listen to equipment before I buy it, and can't just help thinking:"Ghee why is this so expensive....."

A few more tips for those of you who have a Boss SD1. You can get close to the sound of the Ibanez Tubesreamer by putting the pedal in front of a parametric EQ such as the Yamaha NE-1, it will give the pedal a little bit more bass[or treble if you wish] I know it is not new stuff I discuss here, so many people will do this, but still for some of you it may be new.

Has anyone heard of a company called George Dennis, they do a pedal which is called "The Tube", it is a big pedal, has got an expression control which let you control the amount of gain you want to use. Just curious if anyone knows about this guy......Do they do any other stuff which is worth trying?

Eddie de Carpenter
 
For a live rig, I use my digitech pedal. I just like being able to control my sound so well and switch it easily. Also, I love the fact you can control the amount of gain with the expression pedal for those moments that you want to build up the distortion.

For recording, I use just about anything and everything. Metal pedals, tube amp cranking, J-Station, amping an amp or OD-ing mics for distortion. Experimentation is what makes recording fun, and you can always scrap it if it sounds like poo.
 
timmerman said:
So Ronan you said you use a River TBR2-SL, is that a boutique amp?
Click to expand...

www.rivera.com

They do not make the TBR series anymore. They are amazing, but they cost too much to make. 21 tubes of pure happiness!!! Rivera still makes some other cool amps though
 
Hi Ronan,

Thank you for the link, at the moment the Rivera's are a bit out of my financial range, but perhaps a little later all along the line....who knows.

I will also visit your website and see what that is like, in the meantime enjoy.

Eddie de Timmerman :)
 
i had tried out a reviera years ago when looking for a good amp. the only problem was you had to have every tone-boosting option ON to make it sound any good.

i think after that i just ended up using a 1972 marshall super lead (which actually put out 150 watts) and a distortion pedal. it sounded much better to me.

then i shelved that once i heard a tripple rectifier.

im obviously biased towards mesa since ive used nothing but for the past... god... 6 years i think. but, just saying that i tried a rivera and wasnt too impressed.
 
Everyone his/her own taste eh? Have you ever tried the Marshall Superbass?
less trebly than the Superlead. We have to be careful with all of this, we can carry on forever about amps and stuff, yeah I know, it can be fun, but can also become a little boring.

Isn't it with equipment just what you come across, so you'll get what you find, and you will also change your ideas about the whole issue. Yes we learn forever, and are always progressing [or changing if you like] and therefore no real right and wrongs. All too obvious eh?

See ya later :) Eddie
 
a little input desired

I'm still pretty new to guitar and i was wondering is there any difference between the distortion built in on a solid-state amp and that of a pedal, if so what is your favorite distortion pedal?
 
Clean Sound OVER Distorted one........

IbanezRocks.......well Yeah I love 'em too!

Back to subject about your request of pedals and the likes.....well on this forum there is another thread about fav. dist. pedals. If you read that one you will come across a lot of useful ideas about this subject, also people discuss how they use certain devices. If you, after having read all of this, still are not yet sure than it is, of course, still possible to go into that subject. You see one person will favour whatever box over another, and really it is all very subjective. Perhaps you also need to look at what it is you do? Will you use dist. for live-purposes, or mainly studio?. In the studio there is more time to tweak, whereas on stage you need a usefull sound without too much playing with the knobs.

For sofar all of this, now something different......

Over the last few days I have been colouring and mixing a lot of pedals with straight sound. For this purpose I used a Boss Line Selector, which was set to A-B mixed mode, but a mixer could do the same job. Furthermore I used a y-box,which has two inputs and one out. The monitor was an amp. make not important! along with several distortion-pedals, varying from mild to more agressive ones.

The signalpath was as follows: Gtr. in input Line Selctor, output Line Selctor to amp~ so that is the straight sound~dist.pedal into loop of the Line Selector, output of pedal into input y-box, output y-box into second input Line Selector~ You need the two loops for the indidual volumecotrol~.Sounds complex? It would be much easier to show instead of describing but anyway read on.........


My y-box has two ins. and one out, so I also use a monumentary switch [a sustain-pedal of electric piano will also do ] just for fun.So now I am able to switch the distortion on at any desired moment without losing the timing of the song~which swichting the PEDAL ITSELF on/off would do~. With the monumentary switch you can play a phrase with clean sound, step on the switch and voila you get dist. and clean sound mixed. The line sector gives you the control over the volume of both loops. So I put my clean sound a little louder than the dist. sound. All in all it sounds very pleasing, and it is also much easier to create Fuzz-sounds, as the clean sound puts more definition into the Fuzz sound. I have to agree I own several dist. boxes and they are all able to give me a lot of different colours from 80's Metal, NU Metal to 60' pschedelia, so there are a lot of sounds there. Of course some of you may be pleased with just having a few sounds, but I like the choice.

Instead of mixing dist.and clean sound you could do this "trick" with any kind of effect, you could also mix various sounds, so you will create your own effect sound. For all of this I favour seperate floor-boxes, but I believe muli-effectors could be used for this purpose as well, just a little more programming to do [less flexable?]

Eddie :)
 
timmerman said:
Everyone his/her own taste eh? Have you ever tried the Marshall Superbass?
less trebly than the Superlead.
Click to expand...

not when you do the channel bridging thing. the old superleads had the two input types I & II i believe. if you bridge the bottom inputs of I & II together, you get to use one for a more bassy tone and the other for the more trebble-ish sound.

id just crank the bassier sound till i got near the volume i wanted, then turn up the other until the trebble was right.

but, yeah, theyre pretty much a brittle/midrange amp. thats why i ended up finding the mesa.
 
timmerman said:
I also like,as you, to use different amps, and I really like the idea of taking a practice-amp and then to use a Sansamp to warm up your sound. I know it kind of sounds weird: It is too easy to use e.g. a Fender Bassman, or a JMP-Marshall or a Fender Twin and to get happening tones, so I'll go for somehting small an warm these amps up in different ways. I also play guitar through bassamps, and of cours, less treble, but you can make up for it with some kind of EQ or whatever works.

Really nothing new eh? What about bad sounds? Does anyone of you believe they are there? Is it not that any sound is useable? So any piece of gear has got his own merrits. Sometimes it makes you wonder why we pay so much for certain pieces of equipment, of course, there is the brand, the reputation of a certain product and how well known something is. Take e.g. the Ibanez Tubescreamer, they are not cheap compared to Boss' version. So can Ibanez justify their price? Well many people will want a Tube Screamer, because such and such are using them, so they must be good.....Well I am no better, but I will listen to equipment before I buy it, and can't just help thinking:"Ghee why is this so expensive....."

Eddie de Carpenter
Click to expand...

Hi, Eddie, I'm quite interested in your experience with SansAmp through practice amp. I'm thinking of getting one of those POD/V-Amp/SansAmp type of thing, to play it through my Marshall VS8020 ; but I read a few thread saying that the configuration was quite mis-matching. Any info on that.

Btw, I guess we know eachother ... did we play guitars together in a Council flat, a few years back - Ibanez (satriani-like) for you, Epiphone Les Paul for me - ?

Cheers.
Claude. ;)
 
He Claude Nice To Be Back.....!

He Man,

Nice to see you here, yep you got it right, must be me, so how are you and where do you live these days? France or ........?

Wow I can,t believe this, well anyway I have to eh, so SansAmp through.....a small amp? Well yeah don't know if you can remember what kind of gear I had then, I remember you had a small Marshall, which you had from Foxes here in Leeds, well if you still have that one it will rock with the SansAmp. Personally I think the Sans sounds good through anything, but that is just me, and you know I keep the volume down. Also the stuff I do is mainly studio, for live I ....well heck......For live-situations you can also use the Sans, just make sure you hear yourself well through the monitor.

Well I must give you a personal message, because the kind of stuff we would like to discuss is probably not relevant to most folks here. So keep me posted Claude, and I'll do the same.

Woh, what a small world this is, but it is good isn't it?, sure Rocks[Well how would you translate that in French Claude, or would you rather like to hear it in Dutch........] Must leave it here before they all think I have gone completely nuts............So long guys.......Ibanez Rocks, especially if Satch is operating the Thing [don't mind if you do not Dig Satriani, maybe some of you have never heard of him, well in that case try it out........Bye now]

Eddie ;)
 
yes, I love distortion....and distortion loves me back...

I play mainly through a paevey 212 classic chorus....and i absolutely hate the distortion on it, so i use pedals...

dod grunge (old & new) boss ds1, dano pastrami mini, dod punkifier....if i ever have money again i'll get even more

the grunge is my main distorion...has been since day 1...i like th ds1, but i find it's too quiet....even with the level on it maxed when i switch it on i get a drop in my volume, the dano pastrami is really good for some subtle overdrive, especially considering the price ($20 CAD new) or use it with another pedal, to kick it up a notch.

and the biggest joke of the bunch, the punkifier....you can actually get a half decent overdrive sound out of it....but it also has this fuzz knob, which produces the most horrible, $5 kiddie keyboard cheezy synth sounding fuzz i ever heard...it's absolutely ridiculous
i feel sorry for anyone who has this pedal and paid more than $20 for it....

for recording, i also really like the distortion from my little Park amp...it's indispensable....too bad it doesn't go loud enough for live...
 
Thank you guys, for all your response so far, and as we can see many people have their different approaches to "how to get THAT sound" I also think that over the course of time your taste changes in what you like soundwise. My first gtr.amp was a Peavy Stereo-Chorus 70 watts, well this amp has a nice stereo-chorus spread, but at that time I found the dist. limiting. You see on an amp you have your eq's knobs, and when dealing with a single -channel amp, these knobs mainly serve your clean sound. So the dist. channel is then imposed upon the clean sound, so all you tweaking dist. wise needs to be done with the with these single knobs. In this scenario an eq pedal could give you more options.......anyway.

So for today, let us leave the "Meet an Old Friend From The Past Again" story, hey, you come here to read sth. about dist. not about friends[ though it is nice if it happens] so what about a review, shootout if you like about some common pedals you will see nearly anywhere where you life?. So if you happen to life out in the sticks, changes are your will still see some of these little toys around.

The pedals? Ibanez TubeSreamer TS 808, MXR distortion+ and both of the Rats [The Original and The RAT]

Reading Guitarmagazines you often come across artists who will mention what they use to get their sound, also they will tell you how they use it. Most of the time these people do not use just one box or amp to get their sound, no they use a whole lot of things to get their ideas across [Ritchie Blackmore used to play through the input of a taperecorder before the signal hit his amp] Well reading some of these stories made me curious: "Do you really need all of that or, could it be that people just love searching for different sounds and ideas to create these sounds?". Well I think any person has his/her own story to tell about this one. Certainly it is fun to plug into different things, folks like Satriani, Jeff Beck and others love it, so can't be bad for us either.

I "tested" these pedals with a Guyatone gtr., which gives you bright Strat sounds [but any gtr.will do] throuhg a National GA 99TR which is a small 12 watts? practise amp. The idea is to use an amp which does not have a strong character of itself, so the pedal will come through with all its colours.

Come to think of pedals, perhaps you could see all pedals as a limited amp simulator, most pedals will give you the sound of one certain amp, and usually you can tweak this sound a little bit, but you cannot often change the character of the sound[ which you can with a Sans Amp. but that is another story...]

So first the Ibanez TS 808........ This pedal was desiged to give the sound of a tube-amp. To me it sounds as a 1970s Marshall. The controls are: Overdrive, Tone and Level. The interesting thing about the Tone Control is that it gives you more colour to the Overdrive Control rather than a Bass-Treble boost as with e.g. so many Boss pedals. The pedal can be used as a booster, or as an overdriven Tube amp. Within its own sound you can make many variations which are all very useable. The TS 808 was one of the first in the field to emulate a Tube-Amp, later other companies such as Boss did their own variations on this subject. Originally the pedal was designed in the late 1970 to give people something to make their solid-state amps sounds as a valve amp. I guess this whole valve-thing went a little out of fashion in the 1980s, but got back in the 1990s and has not left us since.

The MXR Distortion+..... distributed by JimDunlop, us well known from the Wah Wah pedals, this pedal was also desiged in the late 1970, they advertise this one with Randy Rhodes as the main user. The controls are Volume and Distortion.This pedal can also be used as a boost pedal, although it will not be as clean as the TS 808. The distortion sound is also designed on an amp....perhaps Mesa....? [but I am not sure about that] Anyway, it sounds American rather than British, has a grainy sound compared to the TS 808. Within its own range, you can make a lot of variations on the exhisting sound.

The Rats...........The Original and THE RAT..... both of them have the same controls: Distortion, Filter and Volume. The Rat has more gain than the Original and is a little smaller in size. The Original was designed late 1970s as a TubeSreamer I guess, and yes it can be used for this purpose but has a lot more to offer than only that. From all of the pedals mentioned the Rats may take a little longer to get used to, their sound is so unique, and yes they can give you Marshall or Mesa, but you have to tweak a little to get there. There was a guy on another thread who did not like ' em guess he could't figure out to get a good sound. Also the Rats have so much more gain than the other two mentioned before, and makes them therefore harder to tame, but hey, why do you think they have given them that name? Must be some kind of relation to make the link!. What I really like about the Rats is the Filter knob, which works anti-clockwise [just to be a little bit more of an individual] so on 7 o'clock you get maxed out treble, whereas 4 o'clock gives you maxed out bass, playing with the filter and the distortion settings will give you some fine results, varying from mild grunge to extreem harsh sounding bite. Apart from all of this the pedal smells nice a well, again to give it more of an individual flavour.

Which one is for you? You need to look at your purposes or your likes, if you are only looking for a booster pedal the TS 808 would just do that, but can give you more as well. Would you like a different sound? Well than any of the two Rats could be your choice, whereas the MXR may be good for just a good grunge sound with a fuzzy edge. Bottomline is you need to listen to them, that is where you will find out what they sound like.

When testing pedals in shops use a small amp without to much colour, so you can impose the pedal upon the amp rather than the other way around.

Some links: Dunlop MXR..........www.jimdunlop.com

Pro Co Sound [home of the Rats].......www.procosound.com

For the TS 808 story visit: www.ibanez.com/accessories/series.asp?i=25


Next time some great sounding Boss pedals, in the meantime play a mighty fine guitar.

Eddie :)
 
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