Fender Hot Rod Deluxe: direct recording?

cstockdale

cstockdale

supafly killa homey
I know that you can run the preamp out of the HRDx to an external device, but I was surprised when I did it that it didn't cut the speaker signal.

I have just bought the HRDx. I also have a gorgeous 5 Watt Garnet amp that I record with, which is killer because you can open it up wide and it sounds great, but doesn't hurt your ears. I also use a J-station in places too.

I was hoping that I could use the HRDx in my recording rig, but to keep the volume down (I record in teh house), I was hoping I could crank the HRDx to get the desired tone, and just run the preamp out through my J-station to add cabinet modelling, and record silently. But when I tried this, the speaker was still working on the HRDx. (I have a Peavey Ecoustic amp I have done this with, and it allows for the speaker to be muted).

So I tried unplugging the speaker to silence the amp, but the tubes got really hot, and I stopped this experiment after all of one or two minutes. I don't want to do this again until I know it is safe or not. I read somewhere in here that there needs to be a load on the power amp section: by unplugging the speaker did I remove this load and if I had let this experiment run further would I have killed the amp?
 
well, thank god that I got wise to it quickly enough... it was actually the smell that gave it away (I just quit smoking 5 weeks ago, and am astonished at my new sense of smell)
 
Hey cstockdale, do a search for Hot Plate on this BBS and you will find some discussions on the subject. There are other options besides the Hot Plate but it will get you started.

Welcome to the world of "I want to record my kick-ass wide-open tube amp guitar tone without waking the neighbors."

I've been putting my Budda (30watt) in a closet with lots of big, thick, heavy pillows (including all the clothes in the closet). I crank the master volume on my amp, attenuate 4db with the Hot Plate, then close the closet and bedroom door (my computer is in another room). With this method I have not had any problems with the neighbors complaining (I live in a duplex) and I get to enjoy the pure sonic bliss blasting from my Budda.
 
Thanks for the heads up on the Hotplate. I have seen the name around, but had no idea what it did. I also like the look of the Weber Mass, which is much less expensive.
 
hey stockdale...

i used to have the hot rod deville 212...SWEET sounding amps but louder than holy HELL. Sometimes what I did was put it on channel 2 (drive) and crank the master...then control the volume with the drive knob...helped enhance the tone at a lower volume.

i've seen for sale on ebay a device that's basically a small box with a 1/4" in and a 1/4" out with a single potentiometer in the middle. You insert this guy into the amp's FX loop, crank the volume on the amp, and then use the knob on the little box to control the level coming out. haven't tried it, but who knows...

let us know what works best for ya..
 
as for using the headphone jack, there is none on the HR Deluxe.

I saw that volume knobby thing too, looks interesting. I can achieve pretty much the same thing using my J-station in the loop using no amp/canbinet modelling and just adjusting the volume level, but even still, to get a decent tone, the volume is too high a lot of the time.

There are times when I can crank it and mic it with no worries, but with a baby in the house that time is limited. I was hoping to find a way to record by actually muting the speaker entirely and going direct, but as I discovered, unplugging the speaker is not hte way to do this. This is why you need a hotplate/power attenuator with a "load" function, so the power goes into the attenuator and you can unplug the speaker.

It was suggested to me that I could run a direct line out from the preamp out, and record that signal, PLUS run a cable into the poweramp in, but not have that cable attached to anything... ie a blank signal getting sent to the power amp. It might buzz and hum, but that doesn't matter as I am recording direct.

Is there any danger to the amp doing this that anyone knows about? If there is no signal going to the poweramp, isn't the "load" problem solved, or am I missing something?
 
It was suggested to me that I could run a direct line out from the preamp out, and record that signal, PLUS run a cable into the poweramp in, but not have that cable attached to anything... ie a blank signal getting sent to the power amp. It might buzz and hum, but that doesn't matter as I am recording direct.
Click to expand...

This is what I do with my classic 50 amps, I run two of them in series to get a really killer overdrive, and since the first amp is on 8 / 10, it would be STUPID loud. It was suggested to me on this site to run a patch cord into the EFFECTS RETURN, and that cut the signal to the power section. It did hum, so I plugged that hanging patch chord into the output of a distorion pedal (other end unplugged) and that killed the hum. I now enjoy a really overloaded amp sound at very low volume, and I can record it @ 2 AM with my parents sleeping upstairs! :D

Alternatively, you could buy a HOTPLATE (requires money) to "absorb" the signal at the speaker output and bring the volume down before it goes to the speakers. I'd like to get one, but I can't really justify spending any more money.

Read this : https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=101430
 
cstockdale said:
using my J-station in the loop...
Click to expand...

BTW, how do you like the j-station? I'm thinking of picking one up since you can get 'em for just under $100 on ebay. I looked at the other options, and the j-station kind of sold me since it will do guitar AND bass modeling.
 
Well, it wasn't long ago I lived on the side of the fence where the J-station was the shit, that all these anti-modelling people just hadn't given them a fair chance.

Now I own two beautiful all-tube amps, and I have to say, teh J isn't what I thought it was. BUT, with that aside, I find it very useful, I don't currently own any stompboxes, but with my J with amp and cab modelling off, and a MIDI foot controller with 10 buttons, two pedals and 10 banks (FCB1010), I have great delay/chorus/flange/tremolo/phaser/detuner/reverb/compressor/wah etc etc all at my feet.

OUtside that even, I still use the J to record some tracks with as it has the sound I want that I can't get out of either tube amp. It also is currently saving me a bundle by not having to buy a bass amp, as I have several really nice bass amp models.

And when I want to practise playing high gain stuff without waking hte wife and kids? The J is killer. And at $99 it is a great deal. Be sure to hook it up via MIDI to your PC so you can really edit patches, and if you have a MIDI footcontroller, it is great, because theyn you have stompbox control over its thingies.
 
One of these days I will likely get a Weber Mass, but that is a good ways down the priority list.

I just tried the trick of taking a line out of the preamp out, and running that through my J-station with amp sim off, cab emulation on, and plugged a cord into the power amp in, with the other end of the cord just plugged into the output of a footpedal.

Well, it works, I get the signal out of the preamp out, no signal to the speaker, and nothing is overheating, BUT, the J-station alone with amp sim on (Blackface) sounds better than this ! This setup skips the 6L6 tubes and just runs the signal off the 12AX7 tubes , and I was surprised to hear that the line out option from the Hot Rod (cranked!!!) sounds thinner than the signal from the J-station alone.

However, the mic'd signal from the Hot Rod kicks the J-station's ass like no tomorrow!


Needless to say:

If I need silent recording, the J-station ain't half bad, the line out of the preamp out of the Hot Rod sucks, but the mic'd Hot Rod is the best of all....hence the need for a Weber Mass to bring the volume down to somethign I can share a small room with the amp!
 
I wonder if the impedence out of the pre on the Hot Rod is wrong for what the J-Station is expecting? I would think it would think it would sound ok.

I have a HRDx too and I love it. I was able to get much more reasonable volume control out of it after I had the master volume pot changed from a linear taper to a log taper. I'm personally convinced that they did that on purpose to that people in music stores would say "wow, if it's this loud on 2, imagine how loud it will be on 11!" when in reality, the way it's set up, there isn't that much difference in volume between the high numbers.
 
It doesn't sound bad , but I suspect that a huge part of the tone in the amp is coming from teh 6L6 tubes, and when I run the preamp out to the J-station, I am only getting the 12AX7 tubes in the preamp.

So, from what I can tell, a modelled whole Fender Blackface sounds better than the preamp alone of the Hot Rod run into a cab sim of a Blackface amp.


One thing I was interested in trying was running the preamp out of the Hot Rod into the instrument input of my Garnet Mohawk amp. I figured I could send a hot Hot Rod signal into my Mohawk amp, which is a 5 Watt tube amp with a gorgeous NOS 1950's 12" Celestion speaker, I could get great tone at low volume, but for some reason no signal at all comes into the Mohawk, just hum.

If I run through my J-station into (no Hot Rod in this path) into the Mohawk, it works great, but there must be an impedance mismatch from the Hot Rod preamp out that the input of my Mohawk doesn't like.
 
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