building a cab

daav

daav

Flailing up a storm.
Sorry i have read a bunch of "building a cab" posts but i am hping ot get some good replys to this new one with some all-in-one suggestions. I really know little about cab lore, i have never played anything other than a combo.

I have a fender Blues deluxe (from the early 90's) 40w tube amp, and a little fender bronco practice amp. I am a DIYer from way back, and I am looking to build a cab for at least the blues delux. It has a 12 incher in there and i find it to be a bit boomy, so i was thinking somehting that will be a bit stronger int he mids and high end, maybe a 4x10. So here are my questions. Assuming i want to get great value for the $$:

Which models of which speakers am I looking for. Are celestions great in all forms, is it worth trying to find vintage speakers? Who distributes these for the best prices, etc?

I am not needing super loud live sound, i am looking for tone. Should i consider scaling down to 2x12? is a 4 speaker combo with 2x10s and 2x12s ever done, would it be reccomended?

Building the box i can pull off on my own and by reviewing some other posts i've seen. but any other general advice, special gold plated jacks or high grade wiring i should consider? I can solder, but i am not skilled int his per se, anythign i should be careful of there?

Anyway, lot here to consider, thanks for your help.

Daav .
 
Spend half the money on speakers by making a 2x10, then use the money you save on better materials. If you dont need super loud, then you dont really need 4 speakers, and a 2x is easier for one guy to move.

I used pine, oak, and aspen, lots of PL400 and steel braces and brass wood screws, 14 gauge wire, heavy duty jacks, and two 16 ohm Eminence Legend 105's for $55 bucks each, wired in parallel. Tighter sound than a 12 inch cab, plenty of power. Get an amp handle or a heavy duty instrument case handle from any instrument repair tech. Make sure you do "bolt thru" on the handle, dont just put wood screws in it.

My 1x12 cab has a Weber Michigan, and I put a Silver Bell in my VoxAD50.

Every speaker maker has budget, medium, and premium speakers. If you really want to put tone first, dont scrimp on speakers. Get the best ones you can afford. If all you can afford are the cheapos, then save your money until you can afford better. G10's, VS10's, Legends or Swamp Things (if available in 10), etc...... I suppose the cheapest speaker I would settle for might be the Tube 10, but only if I had to..... I personally think the Webers are the best.
 
soundchaser59 said:
Spend half the money on speakers by making a 2x10, then use the money you save on better materials. If you dont need super loud, then you dont really need 4 speakers, and a 2x is easier for one guy to move.

I used pine, oak, and aspen, lots of PL400 and steel braces and brass wood screws, 14 gauge wire, heavy duty jacks, and two 16 ohm Eminence Legend 105's for $55 bucks each, wired in parallel. Tighter sound than a 12 inch cab, plenty of power. Get an amp handle or a heavy duty instrument case handle from any instrument repair tech. Make sure you do "bolt thru" on the handle, dont just put wood screws in it.

My 1x12 cab has a Weber Michigan, and I put a Silver Bell in my VoxAD50.

Every speaker maker has budget, medium, and premium speakers. If you really want to put tone first, dont scrimp on speakers. Get the best ones you can afford. If all you can afford are the cheapos, then save your money until you can afford better. G10's, VS10's, Legends or Swamp Things (if available in 10), etc...... I suppose the cheapest speaker I would settle for might be the Tube 10, but only if I had to..... I personally think the Webers are the best.
Click to expand...
Thanks greatly for that, lot's to work with, I'd love to hear more about speakers. Since the amp has a pretty nice inherant clean tone, i think the thing I want most from the cab is a punchy distortion with lots of high end, possibly verging on jangly. Basically a garage band sound, high energy, where the bass is fat and spongy and occupies the low end alone with the kick, while two guitars each sit in the mid and higher end respectively- pretty much all rythm with little soloing, Thanks again.

Daav.
 
I have built a couple cabs before. I have to say that by the time you get all the materials, you'll be hard pressed to build one cheaper than you can buy one ready made.

Speakers
Handles
Jacks
Jack plate
Metal corners
Tolex/carpet/what ever
Lumber
fasteners and glue
Grill cloth or grills

You might check into Avatarspeakers.com they make a great product at a price that's hard to beat. As I recall, the project was satisfying but cost a lot more and took more time than I expected.
 
daav said:
It has a 12 incher in there and i find it to be a bit boomy, so i was thinking somehting that will be a bit stronger int he mids and high end, maybe a 4x10. So here are my questions. Assuming i want to get great value for the $$:

Which models of which speakers am I looking for. Are celestions great in all forms, is it worth trying to find vintage speakers? Who distributes these for the best prices, etc?

I am not needing super loud live sound, i am looking for tone. Should i consider scaling down to 2x12? is a 4 speaker combo with 2x10s and 2x12s ever done, would it be reccomended?

Building the box i can pull off on my own and by reviewing some other posts i've seen. but any other general advice, special gold plated jacks or high grade wiring i should consider? I can solder, but i am not skilled int his per se, anythign i should be careful of there?

Anyway, lot here to consider, thanks for your help.

Daav .
Click to expand...

I don't think speaker size is the issue here. I think it is the speakers. I have a mesa 50 watt head. I use a 1960 4x12 cab with it playing hard rock. But I made a cab using 2 jensen mod 12 speakers rated at 35 watts a speaker to get a fender clean bright tone. The closer you match your wattage amp vs speaker the more bright tone you will acheive. Two 75watt celestions are great for tube distortion.

The most difficult process in the construction of your cab will be the baffle board where the speakers mount. And also the grill cloth. I have some dark red grill cloth if your intrested. I will try and get pics of my cab for you within two days. Take your time with this. It's going to be a pain, but it will save you some cash in material cost vs buying a cab.
 
punkin said:
I have built a couple cabs before. I have to say that by the time you get all the materials, you'll be hard pressed to build one cheaper than you can buy one ready made.

Speakers
Handles
Jacks
Jack plate
Metal corners
Tolex/carpet/what ever
Lumber
fasteners and glue
Grill cloth or grills

You might check into Avatarspeakers.com they make a great product at a price that's hard to beat. As I recall, the project was satisfying but cost a lot more and took more time than I expected.
Click to expand...

Plus, what is your time worth?
 
As far as the cabinet itself goes, I have the following recommentations.

Don't use standard grade 3/4" plywood. It has too many voids and will resonate. If you can't find some cabinet grade 7/8" or 1" hardwood plywood you would be better off using MDF. It's less resonant and less inclined to cause sonic anomalies.

Better yet, double the MDF to obtain 1-1/2" wall thickness. Your cabinet will be heavy as hell but it will be a tank. Brace it well at the corners and brace it internally to reduce vibration. The internal braces should be asymmetrical.

You can find cabinet corners and recessed handles, and all that good stuff at any well-equipped music store.

I have used various coverings on cabs that I have built or redone, and I think that indoor/outdoor carpeting is very hardy and rip-resistant.

Good luck with the project!
 
Fantastic stuff folks, i really appreciate the thought out answers.

Although i am cheap as hell, i am not as intersted in saving money as i am in the satisfaction of building this myself, and (hopefully) getting something great out of it. I am planning way ahead and have a pretty full workshop, so the cabinet construction and time should not be a huge factor.

Zaphod B-- Better yet, double the MDF to obtain 1-1/2" wall thickness. Your cabinet will be heavy as hell but it will be a tank. Brace it well at the corners and brace it internally to reduce vibration. The internal braces should be asymmetrical.

Maybe i will try to combine the two, inner layer of MDF, and outer layer of hardwood or cabinet grade plywood for appearance. As long as everythting is jointed tightly, do you see anything wrong with that? I will probabaly join the whole deal with biquit joints, and bracce hte corners as suggested.


gcapel- The most difficult process in the construction of your cab will be the baffle board where the speakers mount. And also the grill cloth. I have some dark red grill cloth if your intrested. I will try and get pics of my cab for you within two days. Take your time with this. It's going to be a pain, but it will save you some cash in material cost vs buying a cab.
I'll ahve to look into this, what characteristics should i be looking for int he baffle board, and how does the grill cloth affect this? I assumed that short of somehitng that would reflect highs, it would work with just about anything.

Thanks all!
 
daav -

Your idea of having an inner layer of MFD and an outer layer of cab grade plywood would work fine, as long as there are no air voids between the layers. Glue 'em up and clamp them as panels before cutting - you can use a glue spreader to make sure the glue is spead evenly. Any kind of joinery will do for corners; it mostly depends on what value you place on cosmetics.
 
Other recommendations:

On the baffle board, use a router with a circular guide to countersink the speakers, so that the leading edge of the speakers is flush (or closer to flush) with the baffle board. It won't hurt anything to top-mount the speakers, but flush-mounting looks more professional.

If you want a more industrial look, use expanded metal to protect the speakers rather than grill cloth. You can get a really cool look this way by painting your baffle board and the expanded metal different colors. (On one cab I painted the baffle board white; the speakers were black, and the expanded metal was painted black. Very cool.) You can find expanded metal at your local metal recycler.
 
The cost of the MDF and the plywood will probably run you about the same as a quality Hardwood plywood - don't waste your money.

Also, Do you have a Table Saw? You'll need one. This is not something you want to mess with trying to cut it by hand. You'll also need a router to route the edges. I was a cabinet maker for quite a few years, and luckily my boss was a guitarist - so we made quite a few speaker cabinets out of scrap plywood - just to try to learn how the different designs work.

I would go with a sealed back - it will yield a tighter bass response and won't have as much "honk" as an open-backed cabinet.

The 2x10" is a good idea - 10" speakers also seem to record better than 12" speakers.


You'll need to know the speaker's Thiele-Small parameters.
If you want it to be really loud - look for a high SPL level. The higher the SPL rating, the louder it will be. You'll at least need to know the Vas so that you'll be able to determine the volume of the speaker box.

If you REALLY want to learn how to do this - I would suggest you get a piece of Software called BASS BOX. I purchased it in the mid 90's. (it was Bass box 5.0 at the time) and it will allow you to evaluate and estimate how the box design will effect the sound, so that you don't make a speaker cabinet you are completely unhappy with.

Just like everything else - "Buy Once - Cry Once"



Parts Express will be an invaluable place for you to get parts.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=29&wt.svl=2

Parts Express sells the Jasper Router Jig that attaches to a router that will enable you to cut a perfectly round hole to mount the speaker in.


Tim
 
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Fantastic, thanks Tim, Zaphod.

I have table saw, routers etc. I close on my house in two weeks(!) and the order or operations (just listing this for fun) are:
1. Rip out the carpert upstairs and on the stairs
2. Paint the whole inside.
3. Sand and refinish floors
4. Carpet upstairs (getting a pro for that job)
5. Build a deck out back, grade and reseed the lawn
6. Build the cab.
7. Begin thinking about finshign the basement, bulding a studio space.

I'll keep track of all this info until then, and post some pics.

Dave.
 
Zaphod B said:
Other recommendations:

On the baffle board, use a router with a circular guide to countersink the speakers, so that the leading edge of the speakers is flush (or closer to flush) with the baffle board. It won't hurt anything to top-mount the speakers, but flush-mounting looks more professional.

If you want a more industrial look, use expanded metal to protect the speakers rather than grill cloth. You can get a really cool look this way by painting your baffle board and the expanded metal different colors. (On one cab I painted the baffle board white; the speakers were black, and the expanded metal was painted black. Very cool.) You can find expanded metal at your local metal recycler.
Click to expand...

Just to state the obvious, if you go with metal for the grille, you'll have to take measures so that it doesn't rattle against the baffle board. Also, if the expanded metal gets pushed in, it will warp and there's no fixing it.
 
ggunn said:
Just to state the obvious, if you go with metal for the grille, you'll have to take measures so that it doesn't rattle against the baffle board. Also, if the expanded metal gets pushed in, it will warp and there's no fixing it.
Click to expand...
You can offset the expanded metal so that it stands off the baffle board enough to not worry about rattles. (Use some 1/2" trim around the edge of the baffle board, for example, screw the expanded metal to that, and another piece of trim to cover the edge.)

And the kind of expanded metal I've used would have to take a shot with a hammer to get dented. :D
 
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