Snare recording

[KillerV]

I’m a little curious about something I’ve picked up with snare-drum recording. I’ve been listening to a couple of raw drum tracks from other pro engineers. I’m pretty happy because it seems like most of my raw tracks are OK compared to theirs. I think the raw sound I’m getting for overheads, kick and toms are pretty much on par. The only tracks where I still hear a great difference is with my snare-sounds. It seems to me that there is some high-end “sparkle” on the other guys’ raw snare tracks that I can’t seem to get into mine. Just to clarify: by raw snare tracks I mean the snare mic solo’d.

On many of these tracks the guys either claim that the track hasn’t been EQ’d, or they don’t mention anything about EQ. I can get it with some high shelf EQ after it’s been recorded, but not in my raw tracks, no matter what I've been doing with placement (which is usually about 2” above the snare, just into the drum at a 30-45 degree angle pointed at the center and away from the hats to minimize bleed). To make sure I can do a fair comparison I specifically listened to tracks that were recorded with a SM57, like I do with mine. The preamp I use is a RNP, btw.

Is there anything I’m still doing wrong with placement, or anything that I can do to get that “sparkle” to my snare tracks? Or are the other guys lying or just forgetting to mention that they use the same type of EQ on the high-end? I’m pretty sure the drums I’ve recorded were all tuned nicely, but could this be the problem? I’m really a perfectionist and I don’t want to be fixing something that can/should be done right.

 

[dualflip]

Well the Snare itself is different, the room, etc.., also are you using a mic in the other side of the snare? that ads sparkle but remember to flip the polarity. Other thing i would recommend is using another mic, the Sm57 works perfectly but hey why not trying different things??, what i dont like of the 57 on the Snare is that it has become today as the Must-be mic for snare, and i think there are a lot of options out there. Try a condenser this time for a change

 

[PhilGood]

One big mistake often made is having a soft surface, such as carpet, under the drums. In reality you need a relatively hard surface, especially under the snare to allow the snap of the bottom head to be picked up by the overheads or a room mic. The snare mic by itself doesn't capture this.

You can easily get this by a hard surface under the drums, or by micing the botom head out of phase with the top mic. Blend accordingly.

EQ should not be the fix.

 

[KillerV]

One big mistake often made is having a soft surface, such as carpet, under the drums. In reality you need a relatively hard surface, especially under the snare to allow the snap of the bottom head to be picked up by the overheads or a room mic. The snare mic by itself doesn't capture this.

You can easily get this by a hard surface under the drums, or by micing the botom head out of phase with the top mic. Blend accordingly.

EQ should not be the fix.

I was skeptical of this becaus I thought that my other drum sounds would also suffer if this was the problem, but the more I think about it I feel that this may very well be where my issue begins.

I've thought of ripping out the carpets in the room I'm using for drum recording, but it's not really possible to do that yet. I think I'm gonna experiment with either getting pieces of plywood and put them around the kit, especially under the snare and see what that does.

It has also been suggested to me to mic the shell of the snare. Although this doesn't solve my initial problem (my raw snare tracks not sounding as sparkley as other guys' raw snare tracks), it may very well give me something usefull to add.

Either way, I'm looking forward to doing a bit of experimenting.

 

[RAMI]

How is your room treated??? Is it as good a room as, say, the recordings you're comparing your drum sound with???? How about your snare??? Is it tuned so that it sounds awesome before you go anywhere near it with a mic??? Those 2 things are way more important than wide snares and micing the shell.

 

[Lairdman]

Does the snare sound as bright as you want just by itself without listening to the mic? It originally has to sound great to get a great signal recorded. I would absolutely recommend using a mic under the snare, that will give you the option of a brighter overall sound when mixed with top mic. Always check the phase of both mics and even the overheads as the combo of all will determine your sound. We used a 57 and AT4033(condenser) on the top and an AKG 451 on the bottom recently, along with a pair of U67s as overheads and had great results and many options when mixing. Good luck with this, you'll get there with some experimentation and modifications.

 

[mrface2112]

EQ should not be the fix.

while i agree that it should not be the fix, it often is. a lot of that top end on "pro" drums comes from EQ. how many pro engineers talk about adding some "air" (or some "top") to drums, or "adding a little sweetening"? that's usually a few db at 10k or 12k.

and judicious use of eq can often be the difference between good and great drums.


cheers,
wade

PS: i agree with everything else in this thread--drum selection, tuning, playing style and technique, mic selection and placement, mic preamps, compression, room construction, etc., are *extremely* important. they're all bricks in the wall.

 

[PhilGood]

while i agree that it should not be the fix, it often is. a lot of that top end on "pro" drums comes from EQ. how many pro engineers talk about adding some "air" (or some "top") to drums, or "adding a little sweetening"? that's usually a few db at 10k or 12k.

and judicious use of eq can often be the difference between good and great drums.


cheers,
wade

I think you would be surprised by how much EQ is ignored until mastering. My friend ******, who has played on countless recordings has told me on several occasions "Why can't I just put a mic on it and have it sound good?" he rarely, if ever at all, relies on EQ when capturing the kit. Beyond being one of the world's greatest drummers, he is also a well respected engineer in his own right and has tutored me on how to record drums over and over. Mic selection and placement trump anything, and while I'm sure the EQ is reached for, it is in only small adjustments, and only after the recording process is done and during mixing. Mic selection, room, placement and preamp selection are far more important than reaching for the EQ dials.

I have had many conversations with some serious names in the drum and recording world who all agree "EQ should be a last resort". It's only for fixing problems that were overlooked in the recording process.

I remember my first real recording session in L.A., where the engineer set up mics on my kit and then after a few adjustments started rolling 2 inch tape. When I listened to the playback of this unbelievable sound he got on my kit, I asked him what he dialed in for EQ. His response was "nothing". That was a serious eye opener.

Sorry, but my association with names and the industry puts your comments in the "fix it in the mix" league. That very well may be the perfect result for home recordists, but when you are talking industry standard, it simply is not the case.

 

[mrhotapples]

Fixing it in the mix isn't the way for recording at home either. The first time I tracked in a real studio, that was the first thing the engineer did, go for the EQ. What we ended up getting was crap compared to what I can do in my bedroom (aside from the openness of the room, preamps and mics).

I'm talking 6-10 db boosts just to get a sound instead of moving mics around. It was awful.

NEVER have a fix it in the mix/with the gear attitude : (