Will Analog Multitracks ever be made again?

[kcearl]

I dont think any couple that is going for a romantic balloon ride, or the guy who studied hot air ballooning his whole adult life and makes his living off giving them, or the company that manufactures the fuel and materials needed to create a hot air balloon sit and worry about not being a "threat" to the airline industry. They just enjoy the view and the demand for what it is they do.

Im not worried about changes that occur outside of my own lifetime.

Digital will always be 1s and 0s until it becomes so complex it will turn back into analog, which we already have now.

Im in my 20s, and have always loved analog. So does almost everyone i know, ages 19 and up. The bands i know around town are all spending big money to have their record done on tape machines in studios. More and more people i know who have switched to digital are now coming back and saying they miss the sound and feel of analog, none of them even in their 30s yet. So i dont see where age has anything to do with it. Also, i dont know if id really put too much weight on the opinions of young men anyways. They are doomed to always believe what they are doing is at the forefront anyways, even if it is light years behind they cant see it. I barely know anyone under 30 who can even write a good song or knows how to use a compressor, so i dont see the point of trying to believe that a young persons flawed logic beats the experience of someone whos done it and knows for a fact what works. I dont think anyone here in this forum over 35 who has tape machine experience prefers it because of their "age". Theyve done it all, and they chose what they preferred. Im getting a little tired of age stigma.

Young people seem to really love to point out the cliches in others, while completely disregarding their own.

The vinyl singles my band made sold out in 2 weeks. We still have a huge pile of CDs sitting in the corner though. So, to each his own.

Then your personal experience is driving your opinion here...it's understandable but not really applicable

And age stigma is a side effect from the lack of experience you will have at your age...there is little you can do about that, well except grow older lol

You have no idea where digital will take us, neither have I, and I doubt anyone here would be able to tell the difference between two recordings done by experts on the two systems...we just like to think we would...its the same with mic'd versus DI amps..people always have an opinion yet seldom can differentiate between the two in any blind tests

its the old "modern life is rubbish" moniker..it does make me laugh...modern life is excellent...embrace it

 

[kcearl]

While not directly relevant to the original question, considering the direction this thread has taken here's a pair of Spectrogram images detailing the frequency range in the same section of a Supertramp song, one taken off CD, the other off a high quality vinyl pressing.

supertramp are rubbish

 

[The Great Cobb]

L

Then your personal experience is driving your opinion here...it's understandable but not really applicable

And age stigma is a side effect from the lack of experience you will have at your age...there is little you can do about that, well except grow older lol

You have no idea where digital will take us, neither have I, and I doubt anyone here would be able to tell the difference between two recordings done by experts on the two systems...we just like to think we would...its the same with mic'd versus DI amps..people always have an opinion yet seldom can differentiate between the two in any blind tests

its the old "modern life is rubbish" moniker..it does make me laugh...modern life is excellent...embrace it

The sonic differences between vinyl and digital are not personal experiences or opinions.

If someone starts a band and releases music on vinyl for people who prefer vinyl, then it is most certainly "applicable".

I can tell the difference between a vinyl record playing and a cd.

Preferring to work with analog methods is not negated by the fact that people cant tell a DI vs a mic and an amp.

I have finally figured out what the difference between analog and digital is. And it is that analog users dont go into digital forums trolling.

 

[kcearl]

The sonic differences between vinyl and digital are not personal experiences or opinions.

If someone starts a band and releases music on vinyl for people who prefer vinyl, then it is most certainly "applicable".

I can tell the difference between a vinyl record playing and a cd.

Preferring to work with analog methods is not negated by the fact that people cant tell a DI vs a mic and an amp.

I have finally figured out what the difference between analog and digital is. And it is that analog users dont go into digital forums trolling.

jesus...who's trolling?

I expressed an opinion and because you "think" you can tell the difference and "your" band have sold some 45s that vinyl is here to stay..it aint, get over it ffs

 

[The Great Cobb]

O

You expressed opinions that were obviously condescending.

Your opinions contained no factual evidence, not even personal factual evidence.

You refused to address the points made by other posts, and instead starting giving advice about life.

I dont see why vinyl and digital downloads couldnt exist together as they do now for a very long time. Its not about 1 side winning or losing a make believe fight that some forumer is dreaming up. There is no fight, one format has its purposes and so does the other.

As far as me mentioning my own bands vinyl/cd sales, its not about me claiming that my personal results are universal. The point im making is that small bands, with small fanbase, can make thousands of dollars off of vinyl sales with little to no promotional help. That is substantial. We get 5 vinyl requests for every 1 guy asking for a cd. So of course our experience might not be universal, but it is something to consider when you are making a couple grand each time you release a 2 song vinyl single.

Another thing worth noting, vinyl is on your side as an artist. Do you realize how much money you lose from people just stealing your songs off myspace etc? Thousands or more. A vinyl record cant be downloaded. Vinyl is on your side. Its on all our sides.

 

[kcearl]

You expressed opinions that were obviously condescending.

Your opinions contained no factual evidence, not even personal factual evidence.

You refused to address the points made by other posts, and instead starting giving advice about life.

I dont see why vinyl and digital downloads couldnt exist together as they do now for a very long time. Its not about 1 side winning or losing a make believe fight that some forumer is dreaming up. There is no fight, one format has its purposes and so does the other.

dude I didn't want to smack you down and ruin, up to then, a friendly and interesting thread but now you've pissed me off


you find it condescending because you obviously think your age comes into everything you write here..you are correct, it does

You claim super maturity for your age yet you talk like some young know it all punk who through a little personal experience with his ground breaking band is deciding how the music people buying of the world are going to use their $ in the future..which flies in the face of the figures that show vinyl sales are minuscule, tiny, a fucking dot

so you say first it will never disappear..then it will never disappear in your lifetime...make up your mind..your lifetime isnt that long son and 1.88 million sales is fuck all in the grand scheme of things

what factual evidence do you need?

you are dealing in absolutes, a common mistake of kids your age..Im saying YOU DONT KNOW NEITHER DO I...there you go...what facts do I need to back that up?

always us and them with you yanks, which I take it you are, grow the fuck up


condescending enough for you sunshine?

 

[kcearl]

Another thing worth noting, vinyl is on your side as an artist. Do you realize how much money you lose from people just stealing your songs off myspace etc? Thousands or more. A vinyl record cant be downloaded. Vinyl is on your side. Its on all our sides.

ah you added a bit..that was almost mature

Digital downloads only make up 64 million in sales..CDs make up 350million...compare hardware, apples with apples sonny

 

[The Great Cobb]

L

dude I didn't want to smack you down and ruin, up to then, a friendly and interesting thread but now you've pissed me off


you find it condescending because you obviously think your age comes into everything you write here..you are correct, it does

You claim super maturity for your age yet you talk like some young know it all punk who through a little personal experience with his ground breaking band is deciding how the music people buying of the world are going to use their $ in the future..which flies in the face of the figures that show vinyl sales are minuscule, tiny, a fucking dot

so you say first it will never disappear..then it will never disappear in your lifetime...make up your mind..your lifetime isnt that long son and 1.88 million sales is fuck all in the grand scheme of things

what factual evidence do you need?

you are dealing in absolutes, a common mistake of kids your age..Im saying YOU DONT KNOW NEITHER DO I...there you go...what facts do I need to back that up?

always us and them with you yanks, which I take it you are, grow the fuck up


condescending enough for you sunshine?

Well, until digital sounds better than a well kept record on a decent player, i dont see why it should be looked down upon, or seen as something thats going away anytime soon.

The reason i brought up age is because i think its a little insulting to come to an analog forum and start claiming that only "old men" find an interest in it. My point was that its not an age thing. Lo.fi. is like 20 something and that dudes into musique concrete so that shows you analog interest has nothing to do with age.

I figured it was safe to say vinyl will be around for at least as long as any of us is willing to pursue a career/hobby in music making. Im sure that the debate about whether people will still be listening to vinyl after the nuke hits is an interesting one, i thought we were talking about now and the next 20 years, which yes, i think it will be.

And yes, i am American. Although i didnt really have a say in it.

I record both analog and digitally and i love both for what they can do. I dont really see an us vs. them attitude in that.

 

[ez_willis]

I record both analog and digitally

what part of your chain is analog?

 

[kcearl]

now you've done it..I breaking up the post lol

Well, until digital sounds better than a well kept record on a decent player, i dont see why it should be looked down upon, or seen as something thats going away anytime soon.

who is looking down on vinyl or saying it doesnt sound better than a CD?

can you point that post out please?

never going away-never in your lifetime-not anytime soon...careful you dont trip

The reason i brought up age is because i think its a little insulting to come to an analog forum and start claiming that only "old men" find an interest in it. My point was that its not an age thing. Lo.fi. is like 20 something and that dudes into musique concrete so that shows you analog interest has nothing to do with age.

the "old men in cardigans smelling of pipe tobacco" was a pretty obvious joke..hence the emoticon after it...maybe your skin is a little thin for the intraweb?

Id record in analogue if I could and it was convenient..it isnt, its outdated due to its size and inconvenience..I think digital will maybe supersede it in sound eventually...note: no absolute there

I figured it was safe to say vinyl will be around for at least as long as any of us is willing to pursue a career/hobby in music making. Im sure that the debate about whether people will still be listening to vinyl after the nuke hits is an interesting one, i thought we were talking about now and the next 20 years, which yes, i think it will be.

if it is (20 years now? ) I think it will become more and more a minority once this current "gimmick" is over and either MP3s and/or CDs drastically improve or a new generation of music distribution/quality is invented

And yes, i am American. Although i didnt really have a say in it.

nowt wrong with being a yank, great country and people...but they have a penchant for dividing things straight down the middle and choosing sides

I record both analog and digitally and i love both for what they can do. I dont really see an us vs. them attitude in that.

you comment on a digital user trolling in an analogue forum begs to differ

but I'll believe you if you say so and thank you for a mature response..

 

[The Great Cobb]

depends

Well it depends on the project. Ive done just straight tape tracking to tape mastering, tape to digital mixing, and ive even tried straight digital and digital to tape. Ive always found that i liked the end result as much as i liked the song itself to begin with. Im not a purist for both logical and practical reasons. I use cheap stuff and some not as cheap stuff. Im not a master engineer, i simply feel my way through it.

 

[ez_willis]

Well it depends on the project. Ive done just straight tape tracking to tape mastering, tape to digital mixing, and ive even tried straight digital and digital to tape. Ive always found that i liked the end result as much as i liked the song itself to begin with. Im not a purist for both logical and practical reasons. I use cheap stuff and some not as cheap stuff. Im not a master engineer, i simply feel my way through it.

so you are just using the gear at your disposal to complete a project then?

 

[The Great Cobb]

clownfacedude

now you've done it..I breaking up the post lol



who is looking down on vinyl or saying it doesnt sound better than a CD?

can you point that post out please?

never going away-never in your lifetime-not anytime soon...careful you dont trip



the "old men in cardigans smelling of pipe tobacco" was a pretty obvious joke..hence the emoticon after it...maybe your skin is a little thin for the intraweb?

Id record in analogue if I could and it was convenient..it isnt, its outdated due to its size and inconvenience..I think digital will maybe supersede it in sound eventually...note: no absolute there




if it is (20 years now? ) I think it will become more and more a minority once this current "gimmick" is over and either MP3s and/or CDs drastically improve or a new generation of music distribution/quality is invented



nowt wrong with being a yank, great country and people...but they have a penchant for dividing things straight down the middle and choosing sides




you comment on a digital user trolling in an analogue forum begs to differ

but I'll believe you if you say so and thank you for a mature response..

Things are only as old as the last time someone was new to them. If a kid in his bedroom got the idea to make all his recordings sound like they were from the 1940s thats just as cutting edge to me as someone who is using the lastest software.

I think this is a good quote:

"The technology of yesterday becomes the artform of today" Marshall McLuhan, 1911 - 1980

 

[The Great Cobb]

Ez

so you are just using the gear at your disposal to complete a project then?

I do. And so far ive come to the conclusion that nothing beats the real thing when it comes to trying to capture a certain effect. Tape is tape. Vinyl is vinyl. A simulator will always be just that. But on the other hand, i cant do nearly as much trickery with tape editing in as much time. So i try to go upstream when i can, by using things that naturally do what i hope they will.

Thats why i dont think analog or vinyl will be going away anytime soon, its always going to have that tangible element that people love.

 

[ez_willis]

I do. And so far ive come to the conclusion that nothing beats the real thing when it comes to trying to capture a certain effect. Tape is tape. Vinyl is vinyl. A simulator will always be just that. But on the other hand, i cant do nearly as much trickery with tape editing in as much time. So i try to go upstream when i can, by using things that naturally do what i hope they will.

Thats why i dont think analog or vinyl will be going away anytime soon, its always going to have that tangible element that people love.

i think the point of the thread was if you think analog multitracks will ever be made again. do you or don't you?

 

[The Great Cobb]

Ez

i think the point of the thread was if you think analog multitracks will ever be made again. do you or don't you?

You and i both know the thread was derailed long ago, and that my posts were far removed from that.

But, yes i think they will. But not for consumer market. But that doesnt really mean anything to me. The factors that cause analog to be so costly and "slow" compared to digital dont effect the sound quality of analog, or the work methods. Just because Tascam makes more money off cheap digital junk doestn mean that analog is "dead" or a lost cause that only old fogeys dig. And dont think that it isnt glaringly obvious that thats what is being implied when people post things like "only old men stare at" etc.

I dont care what other people use to record. I dont see one method as being superior to another in all ways. Ive been mindblown by all digital recordings. My only personal truth i can state though, is that there were times when i was working with digital that i couldnt get it to do what analog does so easily. But it also goes the other way too.

Im sorry its just a little hilarious when dudes come to this forum saying things like "weve all gone digital". Because "we" havent. Dont sell everyone out before they are ready because its not only non-factual its also a great big bummer.

 

[sweetbeats]

All I want for Christmas is...

An ez willis plugin.

 

[ez_willis]

An ez willis plugin.

everyone wants an Awesome Button.

 

[kcearl]

You and i both know the thread was derailed long ago, and that my posts were far removed from that.

But, yes i think they will. But not for consumer market. But that doesnt really mean anything to me. The factors that cause analog to be so costly and "slow" compared to digital dont effect the sound quality of analog, or the work methods. Just because Tascam makes more money off cheap digital junk doestn mean that analog is "dead" or a lost cause that only old fogeys dig. And dont think that it isnt glaringly obvious that thats what is being implied when people post things like "only old men stare at" etc.

I dont care what other people use to record. I dont see one method as being superior to another in all ways. Ive been mindblown by all digital recordings. My only personal truth i can state though, is that there were times when i was working with digital that i couldnt get it to do what analog does so easily. But it also goes the other way too.

Im sorry its just a little hilarious when dudes come to this forum saying things like "weve all gone digital". Because "we" havent. Dont sell everyone out before they are ready because its not only non-factual its also a great big bummer.

Im digital...never was anything else as Im so new at this..probably never will be either...makes not one bit of difference...analogue may still exist for a while...but when the parts run out and digital improves (which lets face it, it will) then bye bye it will become irrelevant...regardless of how everyone feels about it

Im not saying its a good or bad thing...it means no more to me than any other medium we replace or improve on..but I do get the attachment

I only used to ride early eighties style Japanese muscle bikes...I loved the feel of them and the input required by the rider to get the best out of them...but I know they will eventually become irrelevant relics of the past and that new bikes outperformed them years ago..I think this subject, and the others discussed here, are similar...digital just hasnt "outperformed" analogues sound yet..once it does...

 

[ez_willis]

everyone wants an Awesome Button.

...that right there is why i am so famous 'round these parts.