Vicious dogs

jimistone said:
when I say "Terriers" I mean Bull Terriers. I should have been specific I guess. You are correct that german shepherds were not originally bred to be aggressive dogs....they were bred to herd sheep. However, the Nazis figured out that these dogs could be trained to be highly agressive and they put that to use. That is what really introduced the breed to much of the world. They are probably the number one breed of dog used as attack dogs.

Anyway....MY POINT...was that agressive breeds will be agressive by nature. Agressive breeds are far more likely to mawl a child or attack someone you don't want attacked. All one has to do is look it up. Most attacks are pit bulls, akitas, dobermans, German shepards...so on and so forth.

That being said, I am against laws that prevent people from owning agressive breeds of dogs.
I'm also against laws that prevent me from putting a 30.06 bullet through ones brain if it wanders on my property.
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Again, you are incorrect. The GSD has always had a very intelligent and easy disposition. It's the breeds intelligence combined with it's strength and eagerness to work that has resulted in widespread use in the police and military. The breeds natural temperament is not aggressive unless it is trained. That is why it makes such a good police dog, not because of its aggression. There are far more aggressive breeds that they would choose if that was the requirement. It isnt.

All I was doing was pointing out factually incorrect detail in your post regarding GSD and Akita specifically. Further it is the American pit bull terrier that has the reputation after being bred purely as a fighting dog. Many and most other Pit bull terriers are and were bred for rutting and hunting and flushing. Staffies, etc...

I am against any breeders and owners that breed unwanted or overly aggressive temperament into any breed. I am also against anyone that thinks the best and first solution to trespass is a bullet. Both attitudes are self centric and ignorant.

I have owned dogs all my life right now I only have two but now I have the move complete that number will likely increase again. There is a clue in my username as to my passion. I have hunted with dogs, a lot more fun than with guns.. coursing mostly but also as vermin and pest control options.. I have raced dogs and also done some sledding which is our current passion.

There are dangerous dogs but far fewer types than many perceive. Here recognised dangerous breeds are legislated quite rightly. The rest of the solution lies in education and enforcement against those that abuse the handling of dogs.
 
ibleedburgundy said:
Exactly right. Pit bulls have been bred for hundreds of years to fight other animals and other dogs. The strongest/most aggressive dogs were kept and studded while the weaker/less aggressive dogs were killed and their DNA went with them.

Having a super duper owner may overcome that, but it bugs the shit out me when people pretend the predisposition doesn't exist, and that it isn't genetic.
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Not Exactly. It is the American pit bull you and jimi are referring to. There are many other pit bull and terrier types that meet the class and few are bred for aggression or fight.
 
pikingrin said:
It's all in how you raise them...
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Exactly.

For domesticated animals to be vicious...they were either mistreated...or raised to be mean.
Some probably intentionally mistreated in order to make them mean attack dogs. :facepalm:

I've known people with either a Pit Bull, a Shepherd, a Doberman, an Akita...and they were all some of the friendliest, sweetest dogs...but any of them could have been raised to be mean attack dogs if that's what the *owners* wanted them to be.
 
Man, just last week, our neighbor was out walking her dog and both her and the dog were attacked by pitbulls. Dog went to the pet hospital and the neighbor has bite marks on her arms. She called the police, but because we live two blocks outside the city limits, the county law applies and the dogs were returned to their owner. For sure the dogs escaped the fenced backyard because all the fences in our community are rotted decaying wooden fences and the owners probably don't maintain them.

My wife now carries pepper spray when she walks the dog.

As for licensing, while we don't have any laws that require a license to own a dog, we did have to complete an extensive questionnaire when we adopted our puppy in August.

And as for guns, Broken_H, Keep guns out of dog thread. wtf. Find another analogy to use.
 
My experience has been there are no stupid dogs, just stupid owners. The hundreds of years of breeding line is false. It has been proven you can breed behavior traits in just a few generations, this is why we're hearing more about pit bulls than ever before.
 
Greg_L said:
Only a real bonehead would use a 30.06 for home defense.

IMO, YMMV. Etc.
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I haven't had any aggressive dogs breaking in my home, but if one does I probably won't use a 30.06 on it. That being said, if a strange unknown dog is anyywhere on my 12 acres and shows agression towards me....he's probably gonna get a 30.06 hollow point through his head.
I know all my neighbors dogs, so a strange dog would be a stray.

A cyote or a wild boar that ventures on my place will get the same treatment. A dog that doesn't show agression towards me will probably just get shooed away if it doesn't have a collar and if it does have a collar I will try to find the owner.
But, no collarless stray dog is going to venture on my property and snarl at me and live.
 
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The stats
Quick statistics ::

This page is a collection of dog bite statistics that are located on DogsBite.org or can reached by a web link. Notably, each year, an American has a one in 50 chance of being bitten by a dog.1

In the 10-year period from 2005 to 2014, two dog breeds accounted for 74% of the attacks that resulted in death: pit bulls and rottweilers.

2014 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2015

71% of the pit bull fatalities have occurred in the past 10 years; 42% in the past four years; 24% in the past two years.

30-Year Summary: Dog Attack Deaths and Maimings, U.S. & Canada September 1982 to December 26, 2011 by Merritt Clifton,*Animal People

Over 700 U.S. cities have adopted breed-specific laws since the mid 1980s, just after pit bulls (fighting dogs) began leaking into the general population.

Estimated U.S. Cities, Counties and Military Facilities with Breed-Specific Laws by DogsBite.org, 2015

By 2017, pit bulls are projected to maul 305 Americans to death since 1998, the year the CDC stopped tracking fatal dog attacks by breed.

Fatalpitbullattacks.com, 2014,*Nonprofits Urge CDC to Resume Tracking Richer Data Set for Children and Adults Disfigured, Maimed and Killed by Dogs, DogsBite.org, 2014

In the 10-year period from 2005 to 2014, pit bulls killed 203 Americans, about one citizen every 18 days.

2014 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2015

In 2014, loose dogs off their owner's property inflicted 40% of all fatal attacks, a sharp rise from the last 10-year rate of 24% (2005 to 2014).

2014 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2015

In 2013, over one-third, 38%, of all dog bite fatality victims were either visiting or living temporarily with the dog's owner when the fatal attack occurred.

2013 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2014

In 2012, more than 27,000 people underwent reconstructive surgery as a result of being bitten by dogs.

2012 Plastic Surgery Statistics Report by the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, 2013

In the 3-year period of 2006 to 2008, 18% of all fatal dog attacks occurred off owner property. Pit bulls were responsible for 81% of these attacks.

Report: U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities January 2006 to December 2008 by DogsBite.org, 2010

In the first eight months of 2011, nearly half of the persons killed by a pit bull was the dog's owner and primary caretaker.

2011 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2011

Over 40 countries across the world regulate dangerous dog breeds with breed-specific laws including: France, Norway, Spain, Portugal and Great Britain.

Estimated U.S. Cities, Counties and Military Facilities with Breed-Specific Laws by DogsBite.org, 2015

In 2011, adult victims of fatal pit bull attacks more than doubled the number of child victims.

2011 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2012

A study published in 2010 showed there were 4 times as many dog bite-related ED visits and 3 times as many hospital stays in rural areas than in urban areas.

Emergency Department Visits and Inpatient Stays Involving Dog Bites, 2008 by AHRQ, 2010

Pit bull terriers were selectively bred for a violent activity that is now a felony in all 50 U.S. states: dogfighting.

Dogfighting Fact Sheet by the Human Society of the United States

Over 290 U.S. military bases governed by the U.S. Air Force, Air Force Space Command, U.S. Army, U.S. Marine Corps and Navy regulate dangerous dog breeds.

Estimated U.S. Cities, Counties and Military Facilities with Breed-Specific Laws by DogsBite.org, 2015

Dog attack victims suffer over $1 billion in monetary losses annually. JAMA reports this estimate to be as high as $2 billion.

Dog Bites Recognized as Public Health Problem by R. Voelker,*JAMA

A 2010 study showed that the average cost of a dog bite-related hospital stay was $18,200, about 50% higher than the average injury-related hospital stay.

Emergency Department Visits and Inpatient Stays Involving Dog Bites, 2008 by AHRQ, 2010

Dog bites occur every 75 seconds in the United States. Each day, over 1,000 citizens need emergency medical care to treat these injuries.

Nonfatal Dog Bite-Related Injuries Treated in Hospital Emergency Departments - United States, 2001 by the CDC, 2003

Dog bites are the fifth highest reason why children seek emergency room treatment due to activities they voluntarily engage in, such as playing sports.

Incidence of Dog Bite Injuries Treated in Emergency Departments (1992-1994) by H. Weiss, D. Friedman and J. Coben,*JAMA

Nonfatal Dog Bite-Related Injuries Treated in Hospital Emergency Departments - United States, 2001, by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR),*2003; 52(26): 605-610.
 
muttley600 said:
Not Exactly. It is the American pit bull you and jimi are referring to. There are many other pit bull and terrier types that meet the class and few are bred for aggression or fight.
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That's not true. They may not have been bred to fight other dogs, but they were bred to be aggressive towards large game for the purposes of baiting - specifically biting bears and bulls on the face and neck.
 
My experience has been there are no stupid dogs, just stupid owners. The hundreds of years of breeding line is false.
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Source: ASPCA:

Today’s pit bull is a descendant of the original English bull-baiting dog—a dog that was bred to bite and hold bulls, bears and other large animals around the face and head. When baiting large animals was outlawed in the 1800s, people turned instead to fighting their dogs against each other. These larger, slower bull-baiting dogs were crossed with smaller, quicker terriers to produce a more agile and athletic dog for fighting other dogs.
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https://www.aspca.org/adopt/truth-about-pit-bulls

acidrock said:
It has been proven you can breed behavior traits in just a few generations, this is why we're hearing more about pit bulls than ever before.
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Has it? Do you have a study?

I do:

Man's new best friend? A forgotten Russian experiment in fox domestication - Guest Blog - Scientific American Blog Network

In this case it took 40 generations to breed out the wildness of the animal.
 
My brother was attacked by a poodle when we were kids. That fucker was pretty big. He bit through a thick winter coat and his fangs went into my brother's arm. They put him to sleep shortly thereafter.
 
I knew a girl in college who had a pit bull. She took that dog everywhere - was a good owner as far as I could tell. One day out of the blue it latched onto her leg and crushed ankle and wouldn't let go. She had multiple broken bones.

Funny how that shit never seems to happen with most other breeds.
 
ibleedburgundy said:
My brother was attacked by a poodle when we were kids. That fucker was pretty big. He bit through a thick winter coat and his fangs went into my brother's arm. They put him to sleep shortly thereafter.
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That's pretty extreme. He probably would've been fine with a tetanus shot and a couple stitches.
 
ibleedburgundy said:
I knew a girl in college who had a pit bull. She took that dog everywhere - was a good owner as far as I could tell. One day out of the blue it latched onto her leg and crushed ankle and wouldn't let go. She had multiple broken bones.

Funny how that shit never seems to happen with most other breeds.
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exactly
 
The dogsbite.org site has some pretty sobering stats.

I kind of thought that dogs is dogs and they've been around forever and sometimes people get bit...sometimes badly but I had no idea how many people are being killed annually here in the states. There is a significant difference between a little dog and a big dog, breed some aggressive tude into that bigger dog, make it a popular one and it's a no brainer that the amount of deaths is going to increase...how much in the last 10 years is crazy..

Yep it would seem we need to a grip on the situatioN

My neighbor across the street has two beautiful pits..I've watched them grow from pups to very healthy large adults..
They're very well behaved when the owners is overseeing them. Every once in a while when they smash up against the security screen door of their house barking at me, my wife or my grandkids it sends a chill down my back and pisses me off that I have to be in fear / defense mode in my own front yard. I have a shotgun and baseball bat in the house but if those bastards got out it would be hard to get to them in time to protect me or my family.

Weird ESP preminition story... about 10 years ago I was jogging in a high dollar neighborhood in the foothills by my shack. As I was booking up the main street / hill there was a trash can that had a wood stick poking out. I have no idea what made me stop and grab it but I thought it might be handy having if I came across an aggressive dog. I have done this when jogging through the Covina Hills nature preserve cause we have mountain lions on occasion but I'd never taken one along on the streets. No more than a mile down the road a damn pit bull came charging at me full on trot. SHIT! I stopped dead in my tracks, banged the stick on the ground and yelled NO! Bad Dog! He stopped and just kept barking... I'm screaming help! Come get your fucking dog! In this mini mansion area there's about 4 house in a 1/4 mile and no one is coming out.... Dog is still yapping at me ...I realize I'm on my own as no one is coming out and start slowly backing away continuing with the bad dog routine.... FUCK!@.... well I was lucky and the dog let me go on my way....whew! had I not had the stick I have no idea what would have gone down...at least I felt like I had a small chance of protecting myself ...

Had that been a small kid..it'd of been another one of those statistics.

Big dogs, dogs with a propensity to be more aggressive i.e. Pits & Rottweilers need to be respected and handled like a loaded gun and laws need to be passed that make owners that don't do their part to keep them controlled accountable.
 
theDICKENS said:
Been a bit of local political talk about "vicious dog" laws. Under the potential new law, my mutts will both be considered "vicious." Anyone had to deal with such laws?

I have a tall fence, signs, and all up to date shot records. Any other precautions I should take? Anyone had to deal with something similar?
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Just name the dog Cecil and dye his/her fur orange. They'll repeal the law right away.
 
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