unhappy about the greg_L ban

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Sky Blue Lou said:
I'm not so sure about how open any of this has been. Why else the questions about what's allowed or acceptable and what's not? Admittedly there is not as much - if any - of that this time around but there are also far fewer persons commenting and comments than surrounding previous banning incidents. No matter. This board is not a democratic institution and I accept that. No need to respond.

The Clinic. I hardly ever listen and post less. I have not posted a tune since my very earliest days and I deleted it almost immediately. What I have noticed in general is this and I believe it holds true across the phenomenon of Home Recording and is not limited to this board or forum. Most people who try it cannot write, play or sing. Supportive posts are false hope and a waste of time. They are also dishonest. The very rare cases of honest feedback are not appreciated. I mean seriously - what is the point of, "Try a low pass filter or some eq at 5k to defeat sibilance" to some poor delusional recordist that can't carry a tune? Tell him to stick to auto mechanics and you're Greg. Listen to what is on offer with a different outlook - is any of it actually any good? Some is sure but precious little. I don't know what you're supposed to say so I say nothing. I don't want to bear the burden of speaking the truth. Greg was more than happy to - hell it was his mission.

So anyway carry on encouraging each other. Maybe some people will actually improve. I hope it is not too crushing when they eventually hear the truth.
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So a guy wants to learn. He post stuff, yea maybe it is bad and will never be at the highest level. But let's face it, this sit is really for the casual recordist, not the professional. I think a balance of someone who wants to be decent and learn, but not try to get radio quality recordings are the exact people who this site is for.

For those who are semi pro and don't want to share their knowledge to help people dream a little, then maybe you are in the wrong place.
 
DM60 said:
For those who are semi pro and don't want to share their knowledge to help people dream a little, then maybe you are in the wrong place.
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Yeah that ain't me. I accepted the truth very shortly after I built my first recording computer, bought a mic and joined a forum. I'm a pretty good rhythm guitarist, backing vocalist and band musical director but a quality solo artist I am not. I still futz around a bit but I harbor no delusions. Also a big part of the reason why most of my time in this community was spent in the Cave.
 
Come on guys. The simplicity of this is that the site only exists if there are new members joining the forum. Members with experience do not tend to share their music because they already know what they want (well surprisingly one actually did constantly and he is no longer here other than to call the mods and admin NAZIs). Whatever...

If an experienced member drives them away, it is because they have poor ability to respect them and the fact that they are asking for their advice. If a response such as 'that was shit' is given, then there is a really big problem with ability to communicate without their personality/ego driving new members away.

Now, that being said there are plenty of experienced members that do give advice without being dicks about it. Why is there an assumption/judgement that new members are pussies or less worthy in this age of 'everyone with a computer can record'? That is arrogance and quite frankly I find it offensive that long term members here do not move forward with society and it's changes.

Would you tell your kid who just started playing guitar 'You Suck'? I sure hope not.

I treat every member new to recording as I would myself 28 years ago when I first recorded my first demo tape. I didn't know what I was doing then. They do not know now.

If we are here to help each other/and ourselves (which is what this site is supposed to be about), then there is no need for butt-hurt noobs or butt-hurt long term members.


If you have a problem with that, then you are wrong and likely an arrogant asshole who should not be frequenting HR anyway.


Just my opinion... I hope we can all be friends. I am not here to make enemies. Pretty sure that line has been drawn.
 
well, I'm not semi-pro ..... I'm full time pro and have been for 46 years ..... but perhaps you weren't referring to me.

But in all fairness, that forces me to add a comment about the clinic ...... the afore mentioned complaints about it aren't really the main reason I don't attend even though I think they're valid.

Truth be told ... I earn my living through music ...... I HAVE to bring in about 45k a year .... you know how hard it is to make that much money playing music?
It literally takes ALL my time ...... during busy times I do 6-8 gigs a week and almost never less than 4 even at the slowest.
I also do session work and a fair amount of 'hired-gun' gigs ... both of which require significant 'study' time on top of the gigging.

truth be told, after all that ... the last thing I want to do in my very small amount of free time is listen to music.

As far as being in the wrong place ..... no, joining the forum does NOT present a requirement to be a teacher unless that appeals to you.
Someone who joined in 2012 has no idea what it was like when I joined in 1999 and aalso has no idea of the years and years I DID participate in the clinic.
Now for me, it's more of a diversion and, as I said, with the amount of music I have going on all the time, it's nice to have a break.

So there's a non-critical reason why I don't participate nowadays that may be more acceptable to Mr. 60.

I know that amateurs and semi-pros might have a hard time understanding this but40-60 hours of music a week that you HAVE to do wears you out a bit in 46 years.
 
Lt. Bob said:
well, I'm not semi-pro ..... I'm full time pro and have been for 46 years ..... but perhaps you weren't referring to me.

But in all fairness, that forces me to add a comment about the clinic ...... the afore mentioned complaints about it aren't really the main reason I don't attend even though I think they're valid.

Truth be told ... I earn my living through music ...... I HAVE to bring in about 45k a year .... you know how hard it is to make that much money playing music?
It literally takes ALL my time ...... during busy times I do 6-8 gigs a week and almost never less than 4 even at the slowest.
I also do session work and a fair amount of 'hired-gun' gigs ... both of which require significant 'study' time on top of the gigging.

truth be told, after all that ... the last thing I want to do in my very small amount of free time is listen to music.

As far as being in the wrong place ..... no, joining the forum does NOT present a requirement to be a teacher unless that appeals to you.
Someone who joined in 2012 has no idea what it was like when I joined in 1999 and aalso has no idea of the years and years I DID participate in the clinic.
Now for me, it's more of a diversion and, as I said, with the amount of music I have going on all the time, it's nice to have a break.

So there's a non-critical reason why I don't participate nowadays that may be more acceptable to Mr. 60.

I know that amateurs and semi-pros might have a hard time understanding this but40-60 hours of music a week that you HAVE to do wears you out a bit in 46 years.
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Nah, I totally get this.
There are plenty of people who don't really contribute there for similar reasons.
Hell, I don't really contribute there for similar reasons! I don't play live but my day to day work is making, or listening to, music.

I actually feel kinda bad that you needed to defend yourself like that, but any suggestion that the clinic is a place we have to tip toe around the super sensitive needed to be addressed.
 
To function well on an open forum, people skills are equally as important, if not more so, than technical skills.
Some are good with people, some not so much.

Nuff said from me, I'm out.
:D
 
You know, Greg attacked people who gave bad advice....because the didn't know what the hell they were talking about....way more than he attacked newbies. In fact the bulk of his non cave attacks I have seen were on people that he felt didn't know what they were talking about. They were trying to advise others what to do and they were obviously clueless. Kind of like Muttley used to do with anyone who said something he disagreed with about guitars. Nobody knew jack shit about guitars but Muttley (and light). Lol...it was ridiculus. But, in all fairness he was sharp on guitars like Greg was sharp on getting great rock and roll recordings done
 
Lt. Bob said:
well, I'm not semi-pro ..... I'm full time pro and have been for 46 years ..... but perhaps you weren't referring to me.

But in all fairness, that forces me to add a comment about the clinic ...... the afore mentioned complaints about it aren't really the main reason I don't attend even though I think they're valid.

Truth be told ... I earn my living through music ...... I HAVE to bring in about 45k a year .... you know how hard it is to make that much money playing music?
It literally takes ALL my time ...... during busy times I do 6-8 gigs a week and almost never less than 4 even at the slowest.
I also do session work and a fair amount of 'hired-gun' gigs ... both of which require significant 'study' time on top of the gigging.

truth be told, after all that ... the last thing I want to do in my very small amount of free time is listen to music.

As far as being in the wrong place ..... no, joining the forum does NOT present a requirement to be a teacher unless that appeals to you.
Someone who joined in 2012 has no idea what it was like when I joined in 1999 and aalso has no idea of the years and years I DID participate in the clinic.
Now for me, it's more of a diversion and, as I said, with the amount of music I have going on all the time, it's nice to have a break.

So there's a non-critical reason why I don't participate nowadays that may be more acceptable to Mr. 60.

I know that amateurs and semi-pros might have a hard time understanding this but40-60 hours of music a week that you HAVE to do wears you out a bit in 46 years.
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That isn't at all what was meant. It was more around tolerance of the ignorant and those looking to do a good job. It is one thing not to participate, it is another when someone criticizes someone for not knowing or not willing to go to the highest level.

The clinic is hard to give too. I wasn't criticizing for those who don't want to do it. All I was saying is, if you don't want to fine, but one shouldn't comment and just tell someone they are totally stupid because they are ignorant. And you have never done that, so I am not sure why you felt I was throwing rocks at you.

You know what you know and give where you want to give, I have never seen a negative post from you. How you participate seems more of a reasonable approach than those who just want to be totally negative with new people.

With that said, your knowledge and years of experience I am sure are missed by the next generation of artists out there looking for the knowledge you have. Let's face it, you know a lot of stuff and have much to contribute, that doesn't mean you have to. I understand that.
 
jimistone said:
You know, Greg attacked people who gave bad advice....because the didn't know what the hell they were talking about....way more than he attacked newbies. In fact the bulk of his non cave attacks I have seen were on people that he felt didn't know what they were talking about. They were trying to advise others what to do and they were obviously clueless. Kind of like Muttley used to do with anyone who said something he disagreed with about guitars. Nobody knew jack shit about guitars but Muttley (and light). Lol...it was ridiculus. But, in all fairness he was sharp on guitars like Greg was sharp on getting great rock and roll recordings done
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Many of us retort against bad advice. I find the key word you just used was 'attack'. That is not acceptable in my opinion. I would never tell anyone 'you suck' or 'that sucks'. That is just egotistical poor communication IMO.

Greg has a great knowledge of tone for his particular genre. That does not necessarily reflect all types of music that members post about. And I do not disagree with what he has to offer (in fact I have the utmost respect for him), I do however have issue with the way he presented it. Constantly over years and years he has broken the lines of trolling and controlling himself while complaining others were doing the exact same thing he was bitching about. In the end, it is time to move forward.

Greg was a contributor to a huge extent for those he chose to help. The negative side was that he was driving away others at the same time...

I'll leave my opinion at that.
 
jimmys69 said:
Greg has a great knowledge of tone for his particular genre. That does not necessarily reflect all types of music that members post about. .
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Gerg had good ears. You don't need to know a particular genre to know if something doesn't sound good. He also had the ability to improve upon a particular mix in a substantial manner. Not sure if he was doing that in the clinic or not because I don't go in there.
 
DM60 said:
So a guy wants to learn. He post stuff, yea maybe it is bad and will never be at the highest level. But let's face it, this sit is really for the casual recordist, not the professional. I think a balance of someone who wants to be decent and learn, but not try to get radio quality recordings are the exact people who this site is for.

For those who are semi pro and don't want to share their knowledge to help people dream a little, then maybe you are in the wrong place.
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Exactly. Its for helping improve their recording skills. And that's what the Clinic does. Not sure where some folks get the idea that everyone has to be praising and non-critical there. I learned a lot by listening to others' mixes, then reading the critiques from more-knowledgeable people. It was Gerg's assertion that taking advice from ANYONE was worthless, yet he was quick to comment regarding the couple of things he could do well - record drums and loud punk guitar (but rarely if ever in the clinic).

I can just imagine Gerg reading all these posts and thinking 'what a bunch of butt hurt old farts'. HE got kicked out, so now YOU are going to leave? Really? So you're just here as part of the Gerg Fan Club? Really? Well, then, buy-bye!
 
mjbphotos said:
Not sure where some folks get the idea that everyone has to be praising and non-critical there.
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That myth came from Greg. Intentionally going to extremes just to be obtuse.
That so many people blindly believe it says a lot about his influence around here.
 
DM60 said:
So a guy wants to learn. He post stuff, yea maybe it is bad and will never be at the highest level. But let's face it, this sit is really for the casual recordist, not the professional. I think a balance of someone who wants to be decent and learn, but not try to get radio quality recordings are the exact people who this site is for.

For those who are semi pro and don't want to share their knowledge to help people dream a little, then maybe you are in the wrong place.
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I know where you are coming from...but I've always been somewhat against the perspectives that this is "just home recording"...therefore "it doesn't need to be pro"...or something like that.

I do realize that there are lot of people who are just looking to amuse themselves in some "light hobby" way...and that's OK...I'm not suggesting everyone needs to go full-tilt just to drop some guitar tracks in their bedroom.
That said...there are also people here who dove in deeper...and that's not to say that it's about becoming a "rock star", but rather it's about simply taking things to a different level just for the sake of doing it.
It's no different than the guy who spends tons of money, time, effort building some custom car or restoring a vintage racer...they're not expecting to end up at Daytona...they go that deep because they love it, and it's every bit as pro a perspective even though it's just happening in their home garage.

I guess what I'm saying is that there is more to it than just the guys who want to dabble for personal amusement that's associated with the whole "home recording" thing...so this is NOT the wrong place for anyone looking to take it deeper and for having higher expectations...if for no other reason but just to see if the expectations can be achieved.
I think a lot of Greg's angst with "dabbler newbs" was because he felt they weren't even trying to set a higher goal...they just wanted the quick, easy solution without any of the deep explanations behind the processes.

Anyway...to me, home recording is simply about having a studio at home....and that can mean anything you want it to mean. It's not just about guys who aren't really looking for real pro results, because when it's viewed only that way...it immediately sets the bar real low. I think you can set the bar wherever it suits you, regardless of it happening in your home.
There's some pretty involved "home" studios out there, and like anything else, you can make it as amateur or pro as you want to. Pro isn't just about "money" earned...IMO...it's also about dedication and depth of involvement.

AFA the Clinic...I don't post there all that much...and that's not just recently, but from the time a joined, I just wasn't posting in there all too frequently. I don't think posting or not posting should really have any bearing on someone's HR member status.
I also agree that not everyone there was always "butt hurt" when they got criticisms...but, there have been times when people didn't react well to it, and you could also see when people posted just to showcase...they weren't really looking for advice on how to change/improve their mixes...and for that, it was decided that the Marketing forum was the place to purely showcase you music.
I like to post comments in the Clinic only for the guys who I can see will appreciate it, and will benefit. I'll be honest...someone who's mix is just so far off the mark...I mean...bad...I just don't know what to say to that person...so that's another reason I don't post there too much. It's hard to be both politically correct and honest at times.
 
On the 'home recording' aspect, I don't care what anyone 'says'. I believe everyone in their heart and mind is trying to get their songs to sound like a record.

The degree that goal is accomplished depends on skill, recording environment, and gear.
I've heard many a 'radio ready' or 'album quality' tune on this forum.

Listen to LPC explorer. That's an album thats stands side to side with some of the great commercial releases. All home studio.

So I don't buy this concept if it's only a 'home recording'

I might add, a lot of great commercial releases are 'home studio'
 
RFR said:
On the 'home recording' aspect, I don't care what anyone 'says'. I believe everyone in their heart and mind is trying to get their songs to sound like a record.
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I agree.

Everyone has some of that "twinkle in their eyes" and dream in the back of their mind.
It's probably the main reason home recording blew up as much as it has. People had/have expectations that they can do it at home, without the need for pro studios and record companies.
That IS the whole selling point behind the home recording revolution and evolution...isn't it? :)

You can be aware of and accept your limitations, and still have that feeling going on every time you write and record a song.
 
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