Time for a new kick drum mic

thajeremy said:
why....just cuz YOU say it is???

I think its a perfectly acceptable answer....I have a beta 52 that I use 100% of the time...but when I cant quite get the sound I want, I use drumagog....

so explain to me how it is the wrong answer and not just another option?
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because philgood and i are drummers, that's why. i, and i assume he (based on his many postings in the drum forum) are not in the least bit interested in sound replacement, triggers, etc.

that phony crap is for people who aren't passionate about drums.

and yes, the odd out-of-order postings that are happening here are strange indeed. you're not alone. :confused:
 
drossfile said:
because philgood and i are drummers, that's why. i, and i assume he (based on his many postings in the drum forum) are not in the least bit interested in sound replacement, triggers, etc.

that phony crap is for people who aren't passionate about drums.

and yes, the odd out-of-order postings that are happening here are strange indeed. you're not alone. :confused:
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I'm not even a drummer, and I'm completely with you. I approach drums more like an outsider studying them. As a guitarist, I listen to so much guitar, that I find I'm most intrigued/impressed with killer sounding drums. (Yeah--I love the drum solo at concerts!).

So as I got more & more serious about recording, I bought a kit. And added to it and tweaked it, etc. I can't play 'em, but I know how I want 'em to sound. I've spent hours learning to tune 'em, testing a zillion different mics, mic setups & mic placements.

In the end, there's nothing more satisfying than listening to a track with killer sounding drums and knowing that even though I didn't play them, my knowledge captured the sound.

I'm no purist. I use symphony & piano samples all the time. (Though if I owned a symphony, you can bet I'd learn to record it!) When it comes to drums, I'm just stoked by the challenge of nailing the sound with my kit, in my room, with my gear. Just with someone else's playing!

(Hey, at least its easy to get drummers to come around--they know I've got a playground waiting for them!)
 
Oh, sorry for taking it so off topic Phil! My current fave is the D112. But I gotta say for me, it's varied a bit with the head. Before I put the new EMAD on the kick, I was liking the ATM25 better. The D112 just seems to do a better job with the bigger tighter sound I'm getting out of the new head.
 
drossfile said:
because philgood and i are drummers, that's why.
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talk about a wrong answer....

drummer, or no drummer....you cant deny the number of grammy winners, or gold records that have sampled drums.....you also cant deny that it is a feasable option....thats about like me saying that your suggestion of the D6 is the wrong answer...how much sense does that make???

the fact is, sampled drums does not by ANY means mean bad recording....especially if you are using great sounding drum samples....Im not a drummer...but I have plenty of samples that can get the job done when I dont have a drummer...so for me, sometimes, samples are exactly the right answer.
 
drossfile said:
because philgood and i are drummers, that's why. i, and i assume he (based on his many postings in the drum forum) are not in the least bit interested in sound replacement, triggers, etc.

that phony crap is for people who aren't passionate about drums.

and yes, the odd out-of-order postings that are happening here are strange indeed. you're not alone. :confused:
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Drossfile has got me nailed. Yeah, I'm a bit of a purist. If I can't get the sound I want from the drums I'm playing I don't get much sat-is-fack-shun!:D

Although I'm not opposed to samples, but only for an effect. Triggers for me are a no-no. If someone else uses them, fine! Me?...No.

Drum-a-gog interests me, but only because Jason wrote the program and did the samples, and he's awesome!

Still: Gotta say it with real drums! My drum recordings so far have impressed a lot of folks. I just am looking for a different/better sound.

Kenny has made me an offer and I may take him up on it.
 
thajeremy said:
talk about a wrong answer....

drummer, or no drummer....you cant deny the number of grammy winners, or gold records that have sampled drums.....you also cant deny that it is a feasable option....thats about like me saying that your suggestion of the D6 is the wrong answer...how much sense does that make???

the fact is, sampled drums does not by ANY means mean bad recording....especially if you are using great sounding drum samples....Im not a drummer...but I have plenty of samples that can get the job done when I dont have a drummer...so for me, sometimes, samples are exactly the right answer.
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I can deny no truth in what you are saying, so you're both right.
 
I had a D12 back in 1980 for playing out (no studio back then) I really want that mic back.
 
PhilGood said:
Actually that's a good point. At this very moment I am working on restoring 8 Soundelux iFet7's. One is for me.:)

I even have the frames for a few more.
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sweet! what do you mean by restoring? are you using soundelux capsules, transformers, etc.? are you using your own recipe :)?
 
well i've personally nudged drums around to match a tempo grid, taken a good snare hit and used it to replace mishits, and done other stuff like that. i'm working on some songs with a couple of friends and one of them recorded some drums at his place on a nice kit then "beat detectived" (quotes due to use as a verb) the drums into tempo. he was going to sound replace all the drums too, but he used his sweet pearl masters series kit and it sounded great as is. i also have another friend who uses drumagog to layer samples in with recorded acoustic drums and it sounds awesome.

i guess it's a use to taste kind of thing imho. i'm not a big fan of the newer metal, ridiculous replaced double bass sound that ends up sounding like a rigidly programmed and quantized drum machine, but sample replacement is definitely here to stay.

i used modeling for guitar and bass recording for a long time and it can yield great results if done right. i've recently decided that i want to only mic at least guitar (i have nice di's for bass), so i've had to get a few nice amp heads, some nice cabs and speakers, a number of dynamic mics and end up having to mess around with mic placement for a while whenever i want to record guitar-- it's definitely not nearly as convenient, but ultimately i've been very happy with the results. the point is modeling is a nice alternative to that for a variety of reasons (resource, time, etc.) and analogous to sample replacement. i think once you get to the idea of full sample replacement and fully beat detective-ing/quantizing drums that it might be analogous to recording guitar into your daw, converting the pitched audio to midi, quantizing and correcting the midi data and using the midi data to trigger guitar samples. what's actually left of the original performance?
 
this whole drumagog, sound replacement conversation has gotten out of hand....the OP asked about a few specific mics and maybe I should have just stayed out of the conversation because the only one I had ever used was the beta52....I was just offering a different suggestion....with drumagog, you can play drums on a set of fucking buckets and get the sounds you need.....everyone does not have $10,000 kits...I have a cheap mapex kit and I use drumagog and I am 200% happy with it....

I understand some of you are more "passionate about drums" and only want to use your real mic'd kits...and thats all cool, but some people just want to get a song recorded....so drumagog is no more of a "wrong answer" than anything else that was suggested, you can +1 all you want....it just shows your ignorance....
 
well, you opened the door for the debate and certainly helped push it "out of hand" :)
it's not a bad debate at all-- very timely and relevant imho. implying that people are ignorant because they don't agree with you is kind of uncool though imho.
 
I didnt say they were ignorant because they didnt agree with me...i dont have a problem at all with folks having a different opinion....but to flat out tell me that my suggestion or opinion was the "wrong answer" and their only proof of my wrong answer is because they dont agree is kind of ignorant...

this is not a matter of right or wrong...its what works best for each person....sometimes, I use mic'd drums...when Im working with a good drummer, with a nice kit....other times, with not so nice kits, drumagog comes in handy....with not so good drummers, loops and EZdrummer come in handy...
 
thajeremy said:
I didnt say they were ignorant because they didnt agree with me...i dont have a problem at all with folks having a different opinion....but to flat out tell me that my suggestion or opinion was the "wrong answer" and their only proof of my wrong answer is because they dont agree is kind of ignorant...
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I agree, but technically/from a literal perspective "drumagog" is not a kick drum mic. If you post controversial statements on public internet forums, controversy tends to ensue.

thajeremy said:
this is not a matter of right or wrong...its what works best for each person....sometimes, I use mic'd drums...when Im working with a good drummer, with a nice kit....other times, with not so nice kits, drumagog comes in handy....with not so good drummers, loops and EZdrummer come in handy...
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I agree with that too-- I like EZdrummer (I have it and a couple of the expansion packs-- great deal for the $) and I'm all for layering in drum samples and quantizing drums to a degree. I definitely get the purist mentality too though.

(all IMHO, YMMV, can't we all just get along, etc. of course :))
 
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