The New Tone Thread

[minerman]

If you want a 2204, make sure it's the way it's supposed to be. The four inputs may be a typo, but make sure. A 2204 has two inputs - high and low. The half power switch is not native to 2204s, so adding one, even if it goes unused, is just one more thing in the signal path that shouldn't be there. Would it be a problem? Probably not, but if it doesn't need to be there, why have it there?

Right dude, I get it. I just e-mailed Nik to get his answer about the inputs & to see if I could leave the 1/2 power switch out of the amp...I'm sure he'll have it built about any way I'd want, but we'll see what he says when he answers the e-mail...I know he'll probably tell me anything I wanna hear to sell an amp, but still, trying to find out all I can beforehand...

I will say every time I've asked him something in the past, he's been super-quick to answer...We'll see...

 

[liv_rong]

Liv: Tone is a little boxy & dark to me dude....

How can I go about getting rid of it? Just changing mic position?

I'm the same with the volume and Gain too. Although my gain is normally set a touch higher and my volume a touch lower. I would try knocking a load of the mid out of that. Don't worry about it sounding Dimebag scoopy. It won't. From what I've learned about dialing this fucker in is that there's loads of mid in the treble. It really is a dark amp.

Ill give it another shot. I have had it rolled back in the past while experimenting but remember it being not good lol. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Greg_L]

Right dude, I get it. I just e-mailed Nik to get his answer about the inputs & to see if I could leave the 1/2 power switch out of the amp...I'm sure he'll have it built about any way I'd want, but we'll see what he says when he answers the e-mail...I know he'll probably tell me anything I wanna hear to sell an amp, but still, trying to find out all I can beforehand...

I will say every time I've asked him something in the past, he's been super-quick to answer...We'll see...

I think Ceriatone has to go through certain US dealers to pass customs and shit. That may add to the price. Nik has a good reputation for being customer friendly, but some things may be out of his control as far as what actually makes it over here.

 

[Greg_L]

Ok here's a little snippet from a recent jam I did with a buddy. You can hear a little bit of drums in there since this was a live thing, but oh well. Just a little compression and a small bump at about 1K with eq. I have tried a few things to get better sounds on recordings but have found it to be more difficult than anticipated. This, to me, is much harder than getting decent drum sounds. Guitar is an LP going into a Blackstar HT-20 head into an orange cab with a V30 and a Marshall cab with some sort of 12" Celestion. Only the Orange cab is miked with an e609 half way between the center and edge of the speaker. Maybe I should play around with miking both cabs and blending I bit. The sound in the room is pretty loud and much better sounding than I can get on my recordings. I feel like this is boxy.

Sounds like a Blackstar!

It's really not that bad. Try a brighter mic placement. Put that 609 right at the dustcap/cone seam. Blackstars are so dark and dingy sounding that you might get away with miking the speaker dead center. That placement is usually ear splitting bright for most amps, but it might work well with a dark amp. Another thing you can do is back the mic off the grill a bit to reduce proximity effect which just adds thickness that you might not want or need. Blending two cabs is gonna be a lot tougher than just getting a decent track with one mic. My philosophy is if you can't record a good guitar track with one mic, adding more rarely makes things better.

 

[minerman]

I think Ceriatone has to go through certain US dealers to pass customs and shit. That may add to the price. Nik has a good reputation for being customer friendly, but some things may be out of his control as far as what actually makes it over here.

Not sure on that man, I think they've got a USA shop now, or at least they've got amps in the USA ready to send out through the US, Canada & Mexico...



Here's a link to that page:
Contact Us

Just having the shipping charges taken off is about $200 or so cheaper....Still waiting on the e-mail from Nik...

 

[minerman]

How can I go about getting rid of it? Just changing mic position?

Sounds like a Blackstar!

It's really not that bad. Try a brighter mic placement. Put that 609 right at the dustcap/cone seam. Blackstars are so dark and dingy sounding that you might get away with miking the speaker dead center. That placement is usually ear splitting bright for most amps, but it might work well with a dark amp. Another thing you can do is back the mic off the grill a bit to reduce proximity effect which just adds thickness that you might not want or need. Blending two cabs is gonna be a lot tougher than just getting a decent track with one mic. My philosophy is if you can't record a good guitar track with one mic, adding more rarely makes things better.

This ^

 

[Greg_L]

Not sure on that man, I think they've got a USA shop now, or at least they've got amps in the USA ready to send out through the US, Canada & Mexico...


Here's a link to that page:
Contact Us

Just having the shipping charges taken off is about $200 or so cheaper....Still waiting on the e-mail from Nik...

Yeah that's what I meant. He has dealers, but what they have is what they have. I don't know if you can order directly from him. If I remember correctly, it used to be a hassle for people, maybe all that's been sorted. I think it was like, a kit is no problem to order, a complete working amp was a bitch. Something like that. Fuck I don't know.

 

[minerman]

Yeah that's what I meant. He has dealers, but what they have is what they have. I don't know if you can order directly from him. If I remember correctly, it used to be a hassle for people, maybe all that's been sorted. I think it was like, a kit is no problem to order, a complete working amp was a bitch. Something like that. Fuck I don't know.

Yeah I get it man....I do remember shopping around when I got the Chupa (fuck, that's been almost 2 years ago...) & just the shipping (from Malaysia or wherever) was like $200-250 tacked on to the total...

 

[Greg_L]

Look dude, it's not even that far from you!
Vintage Marshall JCM 800 2204 Tube Guitar Amp Head | Guitar Center

 

[Lt. Bob]

I'm not sure a half power switch would make any sound difference if it's not engaged.
All those do in a 2 power tube amp is change the tubes operation from pentode to triode.
Now, triode mode is absolutely gonna sound different ..... usually a softer more round sound .... not as tight, especially in the bottom end.
But when it's in regular pentode mode all the circuitry connected to triode mode should be out of the circuit.

 

[Greg_L]

I'm not sure a half power switch would make any sound difference if it's not engaged.
All those do in a 2 power tube amp is change the tubes operation from pentode to triode.
Now, triode mode is absolutely gonna sound different ..... usually a softer more round sound .... not as tight, especially in the bottom end.
But when it's in regular pentode mode all the circuitry connected to triode mode should be out of the circuit.

Totally agree. It shouldn't make a difference when not engaged, but you never know with these things. A lot of people yanked that feature out of JCM 900s because it made the amp sound better without it regardless whether it was engaged or not. Marshall was not good at that stuff back then. Lol.

But maybe this one's fine, I don't know.

 

[minerman]

Look dude, it's not even that far from you!
Vintage Marshall JCM 800 2204 Tube Guitar Amp Head | Guitar Center

Yeah dude, there are deals out there to be had for sure. The only thing about the used amp thing is reliability. I don't wanna have to plunk a big chunk of change on something I've already plunked a big chunk on to begin with...I'm sure one of the real-deal's from the early 80's would do fine for what I'll be using it for, but there's always the "what if"....

If you remember, we went through about the same thing before I bought the Chupa....

I'm not sure a half power switch would make any sound difference if it's not engaged.
All those do in a 2 power tube amp is change the tubes operation from pentode to triode.
Now, triode mode is absolutely gonna sound different ..... usually a softer more round sound .... not as tight, especially in the bottom end.
But when it's in regular pentode mode all the circuitry connected to triode mode should be out of the circuit.

Glad you dropped in dude....I'm thinking the same thing, but I don't really know myself. All this is just speculation & gabbing back/forth right now, as it'll be probably a couple, maybe even a few months before I'll be able to buy anything like this...

 

[Lt. Bob]

A lot of people yanked that feature out of JCM 900s because it made the amp sound better without it regardless whether it was engaged or not.

well maybe ..... but I wouldn't be shocked if people claimed that the amps with rocker switches sounded different than with the toggles ..... Marshall cork sniffers are as crazy as the craziest of audiophiles.

 

[Greg_L]

well maybe ..... but I wouldn't be shocked if people claimed that the amps with rocker switches sounded different than with the toggles ..... Marshall cork sniffers are as crazy as the craziest of audiophiles.

That could very well be the case. It was just with those 900s though. They didn't do the same to Jubilees, which had a similar half power switch. Just something about those certain 900s.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I can't really offer an opinion actually .... believe it or not, I very rarely speak up about things I don't know about and I haven't used both to compare so other than a mild opinion that it shouldn't make a difference I can't really speak on it.

And you're absolutely right ..... electronics can be weird and not conform to common sense.

In fact, some of the audiophile stuff isn't crazy at all ..... I can absolutely hear a difference in some cables for instance ..... so who knows?

A long passed dear friend of mine used to say, "It's another electronic mystery!"

And he was right ...... I've seen some pretty weird electronic behavior so pretty much anything is possible.

 

[minerman]

That is weird about the 900's making a difference, but in the Jubilee nobody batted an eye...

In all honesty, I would want a "real" JCM 800, just for the sake of having the real thing, but if I can get the same tone(s) with a cheaper clone, then it's obvious which route I'd take. While I'm thrilled to have $$$ coming in every month, & it is a huge difference from last year, I'll still have to really contain my GAS for gear...

I'm just tickled to fuckin' death I'll be able to get my Chupa back before too much longer. Depending on how things go, the attenuator may happen in May, again, just depends...

Like I said, I'll have to contain my GAS, as I keep seeing shit I'd like to have like the Rocktron talk-box, wah pedals, & so on....

 

[Greg_L]

It could just be cork sniffing because 900s are the red headed stepchild of the Marshall family while Jubilees are put on a pedestal. They're damn near the same junky amp!

 

[minerman]

It could just be cork sniffing because 900s are the red headed stepchild of the Marshall family while Jubilees are put on a pedestal. They're damn near the same junky amp!

Yeah dude, cork-sniffing most likely....I found a lot of this shit in different forums over the past couple years or so, it's terrible on certain forums too, much worse actually...

I'm still waiting on an e-mail from Nik, I'm sure he'll respond in the next day or so...No biggie as again, it'll be a couple months before this happens anyway...

Your opinion on the Jubilee still kinda surprises me Greg, as I thought you'd really like one of 'em from all the talk about 'em. Just goes to show a lot of shit is just hype and....cork sniffing....

Since I'm on my 800 kick today, what about the Kerry King sig amp dude??? Any experience with one of these, there's one for sale pretty cheap in another forum...

 

[Greg_L]

Your opinion on the Jubilee still kinda surprises me Greg, as I thought you'd really like one of 'em from all the talk about 'em. Just goes to show a lot of shit is just hype and....cork sniffing....

I'm definitely in the minority with my opinion of the Jubilee. But I do believe there is a big amount of hype and cork-sniffery surrounding that amp. The average Jubilee fan is usually someone that worships the guitar solo and I think a lot of people like those amps because they think they're supposed to. The mids are so thick on a Jubilee, leads do just fly out of those amps. But for someone like me, they just sound like mush. Whatever they're supposed to be great at is just lost on me because I'm not a guitar hero wannabe. I prefer the more classic style Marshall tones, and Jubilees are not that at all. That point is indisputable. Jubilees are their own animal.

Since I'm on my 800 kick today, what about the Kerry King sig amp dude??? Any experience with one of these, there's one for sale pretty cheap in another forum...

I've seen them but never tried one. I think, I might have this wrong, but I think it can be used as a stock 800 without having to be in full slayer metal maniac gain mode. Not too many people seem to have them, or keep them, so I don't know.

 

[minerman]

I'm definitely in the minority with my opinion of the Jubilee. But I do believe there is a big amount of hype and cork-sniffery surrounding that amp. The average Jubilee fan is usually someone that worships the guitar solo and I think a lot of people like those amps because they think they're supposed to. The mids are so thick on a Jubilee, leads do just fly out of those amps. But for someone like me, they just sound like mush. Whatever they're supposed to be great at is just lost on me because I'm not a guitar hero wannabe. I prefer the more classic style Marshall tones, and Jubilees are not that at all. That point is indisputable. Jubilees are their own animal.

I remember when you told us here (it's been a while back), you were gonna get to try one out, & then you were hugely disappointed with it...

I'd love to try one myself, but that probably ain't gonna happen anytime soon, unless I decide to take a trip out of Hicksville...

I've seen them but never tried one. I think, I might have this wrong, but I think it can be used as a stock 800 without having to be in full slayer metal maniac gain mode. Not too many people seem to have them, or keep them, so I don't know.

Well, there's regular mode, then "Beast" mode, which is supposed to mimic KK's gain/eq boost. It's also got KT88's in the power section, which I know nothing about really...

I personally don't care for the tribal shit on the front of the amp at all, but that's just me....The guy's got it listed for $1400, but may be able to get it for a little less...

He's also got a Randy Rhoads amp listed for $2200 there too. I'm not at all interested in this one, just passing the word...

All in all, it'd probably be about the same $-wise as buying the other amp(s) I've been talking about,