The New Tone Thread

I don't even identify as a guitarist....so in any event, skepticism is warranted. I wouldn't be so pompous and self-congratulatory as to call my technique special or unique...I think we're pretty much beyond that at this point in the electric guitar's life. My approach isn't really thinking outside of the box, and the results may just be regular old noise. But there's enough nuance and intentional "mistakes" to be...unorthodox. Yeah, that's the ticket.
 
I don't even identify as a guitarist....so in any event, skepticism is warranted. I wouldn't be so pompous and self-congratulatory as to call my technique special or unique...I think we're pretty much beyond that at this point in the electric guitar's life. My approach isn't really thinking outside of the box, and the results may just be regular old noise. But there's enough nuance and intentional "mistakes" to be...unorthodox. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Okay then. I actually agree with you. Besides playing with your feet or something, there isn't much new ground to explore with guitar that's actually worth listening to.
 
LOTS of expensive pedals.
I have about9 cheap ones - I've already given away a new octaver because I realized how silly it was, (& how they really aren't thaht good at tracking and doing LOW, LOW LOW). I was on a search to drive my Superbass MkII into breakup and the search lead me to the truth - a Superbass is made NOT to be driven into break up.
I did come across some fun pedals though The Brownie & the Big Fluff are pretty cool though and the Behri BDI21 is VERY useful, the Boss is good clean to push an amp and the Ibanez Renometre is ancient technology with voodoo when it works.- pedalszz.jpg
Nothing more than $50 or less than $5. - except the Jimi Hendrix Crybaby from about 86. I occasionally use a pedal for a little colour but nothing serious. The closest I've come to a decent tone is with a Kustom Defender 5H into a Marshall Quad box and a couple of mics.
 
Here's a few clips with the DSL100 running through the new speakers...I have to say, as much as I like the Chupacabra, the DSL100 is still a really good amp....Would be a great gigging amp IMO....


Signal chain:
LP > DSL100 > G12H > '57/e609

50w mode,
Green Crunch
Resonance: 0
Presence: 10
Bass: 2
Mid: 5
Treble: 8
Vol: 4
Gain: 10

full blend on the 2 mics

Green Crunch


Signal chain:
LP > DSL100 > G12H > '57/e609

50w mode
Red OD 1
Resonance: 5
Presence: 8
Bass: 7
Mid: 7
Treble: 4
Vol: 3-4
Gain: 5


'57 is -5 db lower

Red OD1

Signal chain:
LP > DSL100 > G12-65 > '57/e609

100 w mode
Red OD 1
Resonance: 0
Presence: 8
Bass: 2-3
Mid: 4
Treble: 3-4
Vol: 4
Gain: 4

The '57 is -5 db lower than the e609...I added some reverb & fx in the daw, trying to get the processed 80's hair metal sound...lol

80's metal attempt

Finally listening to Gerg's advice about lowering the bass/resonance when the amp's volume is up, & it seems to help a lot...

Lemme know what u think, gotta run the new vaj's waiting....:D.

Those all sound really nice to me. That G12H30 is a good sounding speaker with the DSL. In fact I think all three of those clips sound better than the most recent Chupa clips. Good stuff. Don't turn away from that DSL yet.
 
LOTS of expensive pedals.
I have about9 cheap ones - I've already given away a new octaver because I realized how silly it was, (& how they really aren't thaht good at tracking and doing LOW, LOW LOW). I was on a search to drive my Superbass MkII into breakup and the search lead me to the truth - a Superbass is made NOT to be driven into break up.
I did come across some fun pedals though The Brownie & the Big Fluff are pretty cool though and the Behri BDI21 is VERY useful, the Boss is good clean to push an amp and the Ibanez Renometre is ancient technology with voodoo when it works.- View attachment 90691
Nothing more than $50 or less than $5. - except the Jimi Hendrix Crybaby from about 86. I occasionally use a pedal for a little colour but nothing serious. The closest I've come to a decent tone is with a Kustom Defender 5H into a Marshall Quad box and a couple of mics.

Ha, that "Renometer" looks killer.

I'm telling you dude, mod that Super Bass into a Super Lead and you will have the most glorious guitar tones you've ever had in your life. It's not destructive and can be reversed. You won't be sorry.
 
LOTS of expensive pedals.
I have about9 cheap ones - I've already given away a new octaver because I realized how silly it was, (& how they really aren't thaht good at tracking and doing LOW, LOW LOW). I was on a search to drive my Superbass MkII into breakup and the search lead me to the truth - a Superbass is made NOT to be driven into break up.
I did come across some fun pedals though The Brownie & the Big Fluff are pretty cool though and the Behri BDI21 is VERY useful, the Boss is good clean to push an amp and the Ibanez Renometre is ancient technology with voodoo when it works.-
Nothing more than $50 or less than $5. - except the Jimi Hendrix Crybaby from about 86. I occasionally use a pedal for a little colour but nothing serious. The closest I've come to a decent tone is with a Kustom Defender 5H into a Marshall Quad box and a couple of mics.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I was in the zone with stompboxes...and bought/sold over 60 pedals these past 3 years. :eek:
Started with an AD-9RI, Vox Brit Boost, Ibanez TK999HT & BBE Mind Bender I got for under $250. Kept exploring and trading up as my tastes developed, I'm now left with 19 *keepers* that have survived numerous herd-thinnings. Shopping secondhand/trading with pals helped keep costs at about 25-50% of *reasonable* going rates...as does shopping for tools/lab equipment/players and not collectibles. Plus patience and timing/luck help a lot. That Percolator was $180, LFLJ $150...

The most radical changes came in late 2012 when I went from 100w MV SF Fender (6L6+SS Rec) to 50w Non-Master Selmer (EL34+5ar4 Rec) as my pedal platform. Traded in all my dirt boxes except for the Percolator & started over. It was worth it.

My favorite cheap pedals are the Ibanez Tonelok series. Then MXR/Dunlop/Way Huge. But while trends seem to be heading toward easily replaced, cost-friendly micro fx...as luck would have it my sonic prefs become pricy, big box unobtanium/relics from the 20th century. :facepalm:

[QUOTE="Greg_L, post: 4264042, member: 58330"]Ha, that "Renometer" looks killer.
[/QUOTE]

Damn right it does. My kinda stompbox!
 
lol ....... my pedal 'board' ...... I grab whatever when I walk out the door to a gig ...... actually I have about twice as many as this pic.
 

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Those all sound really nice to me. That G12H30 is a good sounding speaker with the DSL. In fact I think all three of those clips sound better than the most recent Chupa clips. Good stuff. Don't turn away from that DSL yet.

Thanks dude, I think Ive figured out what I need to do for my clips (in general), I need to keep the bass/resonance low, the mids up around 4-5, & the treble about the same as the mids....Presence depends on how bright I want 'em, along with the mic position.....

Yeah, the DSL is a good amp dude, & it's not going anywhere....

I think I know what I need to do with the Chupa too, I'll try later when I get home....
 
Well I've narrowed down my kit build to, I think, three kits.

50 Watt Build Checklist | ValveStorm - With this one I think I'd have to buy it piece-by-piece. I think. Maybe. I haven't contacted them yet. This one is basically a Metro kit and has the best reputation of the bunch. Probably the most expensive. I've read the complete assembly and testing manual and they couldn't have made it any easier. Everything was described and explained in extreme detail.

Marshall Style 1987 Lead "Plexi" 50w Tube Amp Kit - This is a complete kit, although I'm not sure how clear it's instructions are yet. The transformers are pretty good, but not as good as what I'd get for the ValveStorm/Metro kit.

Ceriatone Amplification - Package #2 includes trannies of unknown quality. Maybe some chinese junk.

The most important thing I've learned is that I need to make sure I get transformers that match which ever layout I'm using. Still researching, but that ValveStorm kit is my first choice unless it just becomes ungodly expensive.
 
Regarding minerman's last set of clips... He has a wide range of low end dialed in from one to the other (e.g., one clip has Resonance = 0 and Bass = 2, another has Resonance = 5 and Bass = 7). Maybe it's just what I'm listening on (earbuds) - but I don't notice much of a difference in the low end. I mean, I notice the low end is a little stronger, but not what I would expect. Does this seem weird to anyone but me?

And BTW - I really like the sound on that last set of clips.
 
Regarding minerman's last set of clips... He has a wide range of low end dialed in from one to the other (e.g., one clip has Resonance = 0 and Bass = 2, another has Resonance = 5 and Bass = 7). Maybe it's just what I'm listening on (earbuds) - but I don't notice much of a difference in the low end. I mean, I notice the low end is a little stronger, but not what I would expect. Does this seem weird to anyone but me?

And BTW - I really like the sound on that last set of clips.

The different channels and different mid settings affects the lows.
 
Okay, I've been playing with my 2204. I'm gonna dial this thing in one of these days, I swear. Since I got it I've slowly but surely been making improvements to it. First was learning what needed to be fixed for maintenance. Second was getting it back to stock. Now I've found more stuff that needs fixing. Since it's been converted to EL34s, the bias pot range resistor was correctly modded, but the bias grid leak resistors (?) are still the stock 6550 150k value and need to be bumped up to 220k. Okay, no prob, I can do that, or just put 6550s back in it. Doh!

In the meantime, I've dropped the resistance going to the preamp section to get my preamp tubes a little hotter - more in line with later JCM 800 numbers. It made a difference. While fucking around with that, I read about some easy mods the hair metal queers do to these amps and thought I'd give them a try. They're very simple and non-destructive. So what I done did was alligator clipped a few caps across a few resistors, and holy fucking hell, the gain jumped way up and it really tightened the amp up a lot. It's much brighter and crisper now. I don't need to run so much treble and I can use the bass and mids way more effectively. I think I like it, but I'm not sure yet. Here's a few clips with and without the caps clipped in. Same exact guitar, settings, speaker, mics for each clip.

Les Paul Trad - Burtstbucker 3 bridge pickup
1979 Marshall JMP 2204
Presence - 5
Bass - 6.5
Mid - 7
Treb - 3.5
Preamp vol - 6.5
Master vol - 5
1960A - G12-65 - 57 center, Audix i5 edge, on axis, on grill, full mic blend, no EQ

2204 Stock

2204 Hair Metal Mods
 
:laughings:


I like both clips...different flavors for sure, each can be useful....so I guess it depends where you want the amp to go.

Ha, yeah, I'm okay with both as well. What I've noticed just playing around with it today is that the amp still cleans up very well with guitar vol rolling. So I can still do the "stock" sound with a little backtwist of the guitar vol. Those little tweaks really tightened the amp up though, and that was my ultimate goal. I didn't want to mod for more gain at all, but the modest gain boost it provided actually sounds really good to me. The amp sounds pretty similar to my Plexi now. And most importantly I learned some stuff. I'm gonna play with the value of the cap on V2 cathode and see how it goes.


I can't wait to start on my 50W Plexi build. That's gonna be a colossal failure or the baddest shit ever.
 
Wow Greg, I don't know what's more shocking, the way the amp sounds modded or the hair metal queer statement...:laughings:.

I'm gonna have to remember that one, you haven't said anything like that in a long time that I can remember, that's a fuckin' good one right there....lol...

Damn dude, to me it sounds like you've got an od pedal pushing the front end, that's crazy....I like the way it sounds with more gain (of course, I'm a hair metal queer....lol)...

And, you had to use your G12-65 didn't ya??? Man, I absolutely love my '65, I'm pretty sure when all is said & done, I'm gonna have a 4x12 loaded with 'em, I like it that much. For me, it's really easy to get the mic placement, even using 2 mics, my other speakers are a little more picky, but the '65 just "works" for me....

On the build, dude, you'll do fine, you pay attention to details more so than anyone I know (even if we've never really met...lol), so you'll do fine, & I'm sure it'll be bad-ass dude, don't sweat it at all...

The deal on the i5 fell through, I figured it would, the guy had it up on Fleaybay, & wouldn't take it down for me, but that's ok too, I'll just buy a fuckin' new one in a month or so....hahahaha

Might've sold my POD X3Live to my nephew, he came by last night & was asking about it, & I made him a price that he seemed pretty surprised with, so if he wants it for what I offered it for, it's his...I haven't even had it turned on in months now, not even for the Line 6 plug-ins in the daw....

Time for a shower, something to eat, & might do some drum programming tonight, I feel like a new fuckin' man compared to last week, plus the new vaj I've been gouging has me feeling pretty good too.....:D.
 
Wow Greg, I don't know what's more shocking, the way the amp sounds modded or the hair metal queer statement...:laughings:.

I'm gonna have to remember that one, you haven't said anything like that in a long time that I can remember, that's a fuckin' good one right there....lol...

Damn dude, to me it sounds like you've got an od pedal pushing the front end, that's crazy....I like the way it sounds with more gain (of course, I'm a hair metal queer....lol)...

And, you had to use your G12-65 didn't ya??? Man, I absolutely love my '65, I'm pretty sure when all is said & done, I'm gonna have a 4x12 loaded with 'em, I like it that much. For me, it's really easy to get the mic placement, even using 2 mics, my other speakers are a little more picky, but the '65 just "works" for me....
Haha dude, I was just messing around. The hair metal queer comment was more about the amp tech stuff I found out in the internets. The people explaining these mods were talking about the Dokken sound or something like that. Lol. I don't like the 80s teased-hair spandex rock, but I've always generally liked the guitar sounds. Those first two Motley Crue albums kick ass though! :D

Anyway, yeah that is what it sounds like. A clean overdrive pedal pushing the amp. Now that I know how easy it is to tweak these mods to taste and understand why, I can fine tune them to dial in the sound a little more. I'm gonna keep it like this for now and see how it performs in a loud band setting. I especially like how the mids and highs are getting the gain while the low end has tightened up and stayed mostly unaffected. The amp acts like it has more headroom now. It's more responsive. But it's gotta still cut through live, so we'll see how it goes tonight.

I've always liked the G12-65s with this amp. They just work good together. I guess it's no surprise since the 65s were made to pair up with these early master vol Marshalls. I told ya they are the shit!

On the build, dude, you'll do fine, you pay attention to details more so than anyone I know (even if we've never really met...lol), so you'll do fine, & I'm sure it'll be bad-ass dude, don't sweat it at all...
Thanks. I hope so. I'm nervous about it. I got the full green-light from the boss (Mrs Greg_L) so it's a go. I just have to do more homework to make sure I get the right transformers for the layout I wanna use. The Metro kit is looking mighty attractive and it gets stellar reviews. I'd hate to fry out those top-shelf components though.

The deal on the i5 fell through, I figured it would, the guy had it up on Fleaybay, & wouldn't take it down for me, but that's ok too, I'll just buy a fuckin' new one in a month or so....hahahaha
Yeah get one. I think it's a really smooth mic but has a cleaner top end than the 57. It's not as spiky. It's the kind of mic you can use further out from the center of the speaker for more chunk but still maintain good clarity.


Time for a shower, something to eat, & might do some drum programming tonight, I feel like a new fuckin' man compared to last week, plus the new vaj I've been gouging has me feeling pretty good too.....:D.
Lol. Hows this one anyway? Is she gonna be cool? That last one looked hot but she was mental, right?
 
Haha dude, I was just messing around. The hair metal queer comment was more about the amp tech stuff I found out in the internets. The people explaining these mods were talking about the Dokken sound or something like that. Lol. I don't like the 80s teased-hair spandex rock, but I've always generally liked the guitar sounds. Those first two Motley Crue albums kick ass though! :D
I know you were just messing around dude, I just laughed my ass off when I read that, literally outloud....I couldn't stop for a few minutes, it just grabbed me....

I've just always been a fan of the 80's metal thing, & always will be....I saw Motley Crue 3-4 times back in the day dude, plus lots & lots of the others...

Anyway, yeah that is what it sounds like. A clean overdrive pedal pushing the amp. Now that I know how easy it is to tweak these mods to taste and understand why, I can fine tune them to dial in the sound a little more. I'm gonna keep it like this for now and see how it performs in a loud band setting. I especially like how the mids and highs are getting the gain while the low end has tightened up and stayed mostly unaffected. The amp acts like it has more headroom now. It's more responsive. But it's gotta still cut through live, so we'll see how it goes tonight.

It does sound good, I'd love to be able to hear it in the room man, I know the recording is what we're after for here, but again, I'd love to be in the room to hear the difference...Sounds great dude!!!!

All you need now is a pointy guitar with a Floyd-Rose...:D.

I've always liked the G12-65s with this amp. They just work good together. I guess it's no surprise since the 65s were made to pair up with these early master vol Marshalls. I told ya they are the shit!

Super speakers dude, I was actually kinda nervous about getting a Celestion re-issue, because I didn't know if it'd sound worth a fuck or not, & I can't compare mine to the old/real ones, but I'm more than happy with the one I got, so much so, I'll probably end up with a 4x12 of 'em eventually....

Thanks. I hope so. I'm nervous about it. I got the full green-light from the boss (Mrs Greg_L) so it's a go. I just have to do more homework to make sure I get the right transformers for the layout I wanna use. The Metro kit is looking mighty attractive and it gets stellar reviews. I'd hate to fry out those top-shelf components though.

You'll do fine dude, just keep us posted....You might wanna think about having it hot-rodded (maybe like my Chupa, just a thought...) with some options to switch in/out, unless you're just wanting a bone-stock sounding 1987x....I'm sure whatever you decide will be awesome & again, you'll do fine dude....

Yeah get one. I think it's a really smooth mic but has a cleaner top end than the 57. It's not as spiky. It's the kind of mic you can use further out from the center of the speaker for more chunk but still maintain good clarity.
I almost got an i5 instead of the e609, it was just kind of a "well....this one" thing, but I'll get one, just like all this other shit, it'll just take a little time...I've plunked down quite a bit of $$$ on this shit since summer.....but I ain't done yet....:).



Lol. Hows this one anyway? Is she gonna be cool? That last one looked hot but she was mental, right?

Yeah, she had issues man...I mean she was a sweet girl & all, we had fuckin' awesome sex, she was pretty damn good looking too, but I saw that she wasn't all there at times, & I'm sure it would've came out more & more as I was around her more & more, so, I bolted.....lol...;).

The new one seems really cool too, but time will tell dude....Just like the last one (the brunette, this one's a blonde), the more time I spend around her, the more I'll really figure her out...I did tell her if she couldn't handle loud-ass fuckin' rock-n-roll music that I wouldn't be around very long, so we'll see...She actually wants me to drag my rig up to her place to check it all out, so maybe in a week or two, I might do that...Just for a weekend though, not jumping into anything at all dude, taking my time, testing the waters.....She is really cool so far though, but like I've said about all of 'em, the real test will be if she can handle my loud-ass music hobby or not....If she can handle the DSL > 4x12 on about 4-5 for a few hours, she might be a keeper....:laughings:.
 
It does sound good, I'd love to be able to hear it in the room man, I know the recording is what we're after for here, but again, I'd love to be in the room to hear the difference...Sounds great dude!!!!

All you need now is a pointy guitar with a Floyd-Rose...:D.
Lol. No. It aint that hairy. It actually sounds pretty similar to the Plexi bright channel now. It does sound pretty awesome in the room. I need to get reacquainted with it and get some better clips. The clarity is what's most impressive to me. It's ballsy and punchy but you can literally hear every single note in a chord. Sounds awesome. It really does. This amp never sounded like this. It's gotta pass the loud band test tonight though.....

Super speakers dude, I was actually kinda nervous about getting a Celestion re-issue, because I didn't know if it'd sound worth a fuck or not, & I can't compare mine to the old/real ones, but I'm more than happy with the one I got, so much so, I'll probably end up with a 4x12 of 'em eventually....
I wasn't impressed with the reissue 65s I'd heard previously, but yours sounds great. It'll just get better as you break it in. That G12H is good too. Keep working with it. It's gonna soften up once you break it in.

You'll do fine dude, just keep us posted....You might wanna think about having it hot-rodded (maybe like my Chupa, just a thought...) with some options to switch in/out, unless you're just wanting a bone-stock sounding 1987x....I'm sure whatever you decide will be awesome & again, you'll do fine dude....
Your Chupa is too hot rodded for me, but I do plan on using it as a platform for some tests and tweaks. Since it's gonna be a turret board, component changes will be simple. My plan is to build it bone-stock 1987...but to 70s specs. It should be a little more aggressive than a 60s version. I will most definitely add a PPIMV and maybe an effects loop. Metro supposedly has designed a killer transparent effects loop. I was also thinking of doing a 100w and making it switchable to 50w, but that might be way above my pay grade. :laughings: I'm gonna stay with the 1987. That's the one classic flavor I don't have. If this works out and I don't die, I'm think I'm gonna do some kind of Fender Twin type thing next.

I almost got an i5 instead of the e609, it was just kind of a "well....this one" thing, but I'll get one, just like all this other shit, it'll just take a little time...I've plunked down quite a bit of $$$ on this shit since summer.....but I ain't done yet....:).
The i5 will round you out nicely. The MD421 is pretty awesome too, but more expensive.



Yeah, she had issues man...I mean she was a sweet girl & all, we had fuckin' awesome sex, she was pretty damn good looking too, but I saw that she wasn't all there at times, & I'm sure it would've came out more & more as I was around her more & more, so, I bolted.....lol...;).

The new one seems really cool too, but time will tell dude....Just like the last one (the brunette, this one's a blonde), the more time I spend around her, the more I'll really figure her out...I did tell her if she couldn't handle loud-ass fuckin' rock-n-roll music that I wouldn't be around very long, so we'll see...She actually wants me to drag my rig up to her place to check it all out, so maybe in a week or two, I might do that...Just for a weekend though, not jumping into anything at all dude, taking my time, testing the waters.....She is really cool so far though, but like I've said about all of 'em, the real test will be if she can handle my loud-ass music hobby or not....If she can handle the DSL > 4x12 on about 4-5 for a few hours, she might be a keeper....:laughings:.

Lol. Good luck with that. She might put up with it while the romance is fresh, but that shit wears on women fast. :laughings:
 
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