The New Tone Thread

lol ..... this thing pulled up last night as I was outloading ..... let down their ramp and girls and a party poured out and started dancing all around it to the built in light show/music.
It's made from a 747 engine.
So that's how big a freakin' 747 engine is! :eek:
The front 'impeller' spins around ....... the 'blades' are made of some translucent material and they shine lights on it from the back ..... it's way cool.
 

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This 50 watt vs 100 watt thing has been bugging me ever since it came up on this thread a few weeks ago. Today I took a SPL meter and...

Nothing scientific about what I did -- I tested two 50 watt Marshalls through a 1960A cabinet with 75 watt celestions, and I tested a 100 watt Orange through a 4x12 Orange cabinet with V30s. I could have used the same cabinet - maybe next time. I didn't dime the tone controls - but they were "comparable" on the three. Anyway, here are the results. In each case I put the SPL meter mic up against the grill pointing to the lower right speaker (which was the same speaker for the Marshalls). I set the meter to preserve peak. I used a P94 equipped guitar and played the same heaving strumming bar chord pattern for about 20 seconds.

* 1971 JMP Lead (1987 circuit - 50 watts) with both Volume I and II (jumpered) all the way up: 125.7 dB

* same amp, but with Volume I and II on 6 out of ten: 126 dB (note the amp sounded a little farty when dimed - sounded better and *got louder* at a lower volume setting)

* 1968 JCM 800 (2204 circuit - 50 watts) High Sensitivity input with Master and Pre-Amp all the way up: 126.6 dB

* 2013 Orange OR100 (100 watts) dirty channel with volume and gain all the way up: 128 dB

I can't hear a word you're saying, but I did determine that the 100 watt amp was louder than the 50 watt amps in this case.
 
Cool test, and that's some big decibels. The V30s might have helped the Orange 100w because they are technically louder speakers than 75s, but at those power levels it probably doesn't matter much.
 
Cool test anichef, you know, I've got a silly, shitty db level thing on my phone, I was just curious to how loud some things are, I've read when mixing, usually around 80db is best for most people, but, that's actually pretty damn loud ain't it??? I know this shitty spl meter on my cell phone probably ain't even close to a real one, but I just wonder if it's even in the ballpark or not....

Again, cool test dude, & I bet it was fuckin' loud...:).

Just got back from the new vaj's place....super weekend again...can't wait 'til she gives me my Christmas present....:D.
 
thanks guys - next weekend I'll try again, but with different placement, and I'll try the same cab.


View attachment SoloSound.mp3

In the meantime, what do you think of this lead sound? My band tries to fuse proto-punk and porno music. This is just above bedroom level on the Orange without much gain - most of the tone is a fuzz, a wah, and an overdrive pedal.

minerman - I got a SPL meter app for my phone, and it may be accurate below 85 dB or so, but it seemed like that was as high as it would go - like there's a protection circuit in the phone which kicks in at a point before the app gets any information - so it was useless for me. Might work great on another phone. Congrats on the vaj! Hope you get a nice present. I've been married for well over 20 years - I'll probably get some socks or something.

I try to do most of my mixing work below 80 dB (and right now my ears are trashed anyway - they'll get better in a couple of days I hope). And then to check the songs, I have to listen to them fairly loud, every now and then, but I keep it to a minimum.
 
anitchef:Cool sound man, very Hendrix-y to my ears, but modern....I like it dude, I'm more into more gain-y stuff myself, & this is right up my alley...I know you mentioned it was low-volume, & I can actually hear you hitting the strings, but I think it sounds pretty good man...Of course, solo'd track don't really mean anything, it's all how it fits into a mix (and I'm more than guilty of this dude, I'm trying to get off my ass & finish up my album, but life does get in the way....my whole fuckin' life has been a rollercoaster for about a year now....sorry for the rant...lol), but again, I like it dude...

What mic/cab combo did you use on this??? I've become a bit of a speaker whore lately, as I've got enough Celestions to fill 2 - 4x12's, a 2x12, plus a single 12" for my ISO cab....Eventually, I'll have the cabs to go with all these, but for now, I'll just use the single 4x12, loaded with 4 different speakers...;).

On the SPL meter thing, I don't think the one I have is very accurate, I've taken it into the tv room while a football game is on, & even the tv registers like 80-90db, at pretty normal/regular volumes....I'm probably not gonna go out & buy a real SPL meter, but I was just curious if the app on my cellphone is worth a fuck or not....probably not...:laughings:.

Clip sounds pretty good dude, post up some more, most, if not all the time, me & the Gerg are the only ones who post any toans, it's nice to have someone different post something...

I know a lot of the time, me & Greg both are pretty hardcore on the "Marshall" sound thing, but, it's what I personally think is "the" guitar tone...I'm pretty sure Greg feels the same way...A forum member even mentioned this to me in a pm, saying he didn't post many tones because me & the Gerg would kinda brush it off because it wasn't "Marshall-y" enough, so I'm trying not to do that myself...

Cool sounds dude, more info (guitar, p'ups, amp settings, etc...)!!!!


Oh yeah, the new vaj is awesome!!!! I was married for years too man, & while I know how all that goes...I haven't taken my amp(s) to her place yet to give her the "loud as fuck" test yet, but it's comin'....While I really like this chick, she's great, I've gotta be me no matter what, & my music is a big, big part of who I am, so we'll see before too long if she will be able to deal with this shit or not....:D.

Greg: Check this out dude....


The guy wants $800 for it...seems pretty high priced to me, but I might see if he wants to trade for some of the shit I'm not using, like the 1x12's, the Egnater, & possibly the 'lil Marshall....We'll see I suppose...I don't think he'll trade, I think he needs cash, but it's worth a shot...
 
Antichef: Yeah that's cool man. Love it. I really like wah abuse, and that was cool. Needs to be louder but that's a good base to go with.

Minerman: I think that's too much for that guitar. I love it, but 800 is a little high IMO. I see those things in the $500-$650 range all the time.

As far as people posting clips....don't be so insecure. This isn't a "Marshall" thread. It never was. I might seem that way because minerman and I obviously post the most clips and we're Marshall fanboys. But I assure you that no one active in this thread has ever shunned another brand. I know for me, whenever I had my hands on other amps, I posted clips of those amps. Somewhere in this thread are clips of that Diamond amp I had, an Orange TH30 I had for a little while, A Krank Rev Jr (I think I put clips of that thing), and maybe some other stuff. Minerman put up about a billion Egnater clips. I welcome any tones. We haven't closed any doors on anyone. If you're too shy to post, that's on you.

For me personally, and this is just my opinion, not a rule of the thread, the only thing I personally don't wanna hear is sim/AxeFX type stuff. I know those a very good, viable tools for recording, but I'm more interested in real mics on real speakers. I'm interested in tone AND the work and skill it takes to get good tone through real equipment. That's just me though. Post whatever you like. I bet some of you sim guys can fool me.
 
antichef .... way cool test. Post clips like mad here ..... brand doesn't matter .... when I post clips it's almost never a Marshall.

On the volume thing ....... speaker efficiency is a big deal. It's possible for one speaker to be half again as loud with the same amp. They can make a HUGE difference in loudness.

And at 125 db another couple of db is not a lot ...... that's why it's often said that a 100 watt amp isn't that much louder than a 50 watter. That much difference could easily be different speakers ..... the rule of thumb is to get twice as loud takes ten times the power.
So more power is usually about more headroom.
But I very much look forward to some more experimentation with this ....... it's really nice to hear about this stuff from real people in the real world .... do it! :)
 
+1000000 on headroom. Holy crap does that make a difference IMO. A 100 watter might not actually be much louder than a 50w, but goddamn they sure feel louder and punch through a mix better.
 
On the clip thing, yeah, post anything up really, but, like you Greg, it's about getting the mic position, the amp dialed in, all that shit....Of course, with a sim/modeler, they can be very good, but I'm learning to listen for the subtle differences that you already hear, in short, I'm learning what to listen for...

On the headroom thing, +1,000,000,000....Man, I can't believe the difference in the 2 big amps I have....The Chupa in plexi mode ain't that much quieter (that fucker ain't quiet at all in plexi mode), than the DSL100, it's more of a feel thing...But, I will say as far as raw volume/loudness is concerned, the DSL100 wins, hands down....

Finishing up some drum programming here guys, I'm about to render the midi tracks to wav's & start re-tracking all the other stuff....might even have a song or two finished up this week....hahahaha
 
details - I'll try - I do better with pictures. It looks like the flash on my camera phone made some of the LEDs look like they were lit, when they're really not.

First, the pedal board:


View attachment 90828

signal goes mostly from right to left:

-- first the Fulltone Octafuzz (in "octavafuzz" mode, as opposed to just "fuzz") -> Budda wah -> Love Pedal Kalamazoo (with "glass" all the way up). The rest of the pedals are in true bypass mode (had to use a bypass pedal for the Mooger Fooger in order to do that).



The amp, OR100 and Orange 4x12 and mic, Shure SM57:

IMG_20141215_074130.jpg

Volume at like 8 o'clock - down almost all the way - you can see the eq - this is the channel on the left. The gain is about 11 o'clock.



the guitar:

IMG_20141215_181425.jpg

This is an antoniotsai vietnamese built ebay special with new electronics and extensive fret/setup work. It's made of real wood (but I have no idea what kind), and the pickups are Gibson P94s - the clip was with the bridge pickup only. I love the guitar, and the local luthier said that just the raw materials for the inlays would cost him more than what I paid for the guitar new - weird. It doesn't have very good sustain, unfortunately, but the pedals help.


the microphone preamp:

IMG_20141214_223344.jpg

This is my drum recording rack - I was using channel 4 on the CLM Dynamics unit, which our own miroslav alerted us to on ebay in this thread: https://homerecording.com/bbs/equipment-forums/rack/ebay-pre-amp-heads-up-375273/ - (thanks miroslav - it's really nice!!!) - not pictured are a Lynx Aurora 16 and macbook pro which finish out the chain.
 
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OK...so since everyone's tossing out some tones and pedal pics....I guess I might as well join in. :)

Here's the pedals...not a massive collection, but enough to cover most any need. Funny thing though...I'm not a big pedal user when I record. It's mostly guitar/amp, but sometimes I'll grab a pedal to shape the tone a bit.

StudioPedals.jpg



Following is the audio clip of me noodling around a bit.

This was done is using the new Plexi style amp I got a couple of weeks ago, mentioned here: New Amp Day
I've been dialing it in the last few days, trying out stuff, different speakers...currently I am using it with a WGS Reaper HP speaker in a 112 vintage style "bluesbreaker" size cab. I like this better than the Celestion Gold, Greenback, and Weber Chicago that I also tried. The Reaper is a G12H30 clone, but this is the HP version so it can handle 50W and is more "warmer" sounding that the regular Reaper. I have a couple of them too, and they are quite good and being used in two other cabs.

The audio clip was done with the amp at max Volume, Tone 3/4 up toward Treble, and using the High Gain input.
The guitar was one of my Hagstrom reissues, one of the new Deuce model...using the bridge pickup.
Mic was a 57 about 3-4" off the grill and about 1' off center.

Some noodling...w/warts :p
 
ANY amp that gets the tone you're after is cool antichef.
I post clips from my 5 watter for comment and suggestions.
I like listening to people make beautiful noise.
I enjoyed you wah ministrations.
The inlaid Sulphur Crested Cockatoos on the guitar are amazing.
 
antichef: Cool pics man, I always like seeing what other people are using for the recordings....clip is great too...:cool:.


miro: Dude, you've got way more pedals than I have...currently, I've got 4....lol....And, your clip sounds tits to me dude, nice tone, very smooth, but with some bite to it, at the same time....what 'verb did you use on the clip??? Whatever it is, it adds a little sense of depth/space, that makes it sound like it's in a live room....more info please...:thumbs up:.
 
minerman said:
miro: Dude, you've got way more pedals than I have...currently, I've got 4....lol....And, your clip sounds tits to me dude, nice tone, very smooth, but with some bite to it, at the same time....what 'verb did you use on the clip??? Whatever it is, it adds a little sense of depth/space, that makes it sound like it's in a live room....more info please...:thumbs up:.
Click to expand...

I got carried away with pedals the last few years...:D...I dunno why...like I said, I'm not a big pedal user.
I guess partly I was getting them "just to have" as studio tools for that moment when you go "I really need a ____"...and partly I was getting them for if/when I ever played out. I even have a large Pedaltrain board/case that has yet to be populated and used. :p :facepalm:

Thanks for the comments on the clip....a bit sloppy playing, but I was mostly trying out tones last night, and that's the tone I ended up recording.


AFA the reverb -if you look at the bottom row of my pedal pic...there's a green pedal, and the one to the left of it, that large one with some tweed showing and the large black platform.
OK...the large tweed/black thing is a Sole-mate reverb unit, and the platform is a custom piece they do as an option, that sits on top of the Sole-mate and lets you put a couple of pedals over it. It's got like a carpet feel to it, so you can use Velcro on your pedals to attach to it. The green pedal is a Vox/Satriani Time Machine delay.

I used both of them, but at very low/light settings. The delay is at it's lowest volume setting...so that it's like a shadow delay, and the Sole-mate was turned down also so that there wasn't gobs of reverb...just enough to give it some space.

-------------------------

The Pigtronix Echolution is really great, and I should probably be using that over the VOX...it's just that the VOX was quicker. The Echolution goes beyond your basic delay options....lots of switches/knobs, but it can do so many different things.

The Pigtronix Rototron is new...and so far I've only tried it out for a bit. I need to spend some quality time with it to really see what it does...but I actually got it more for using with my Hammond L organ than for guitar purposes. With the Rototron, I can make my Hammond L go to Jon Lord territory and get that super crunchy "Rock organ w/Leslie" out of the smaller Hammond L, which doesn't do it on it's own like a B3 & Leslie combo would.
I just have to dial in the Rototron....probably on the next recording session that needs that kind of organ.
 
Thanks!

I'm getting the new amp dialed in where I like it.
The current WGS speaker is it for now, and that's the most I can do with the amp having just volume & tone controls, but it's pretty much all there.
It only needs just a touch of post-recording EQ when I have the volume dimmed, 'cuz you can't help but get some of that high-end hash along with the nice crunch, but where talking solo guitar tone here...in a mix it all blends/masks nicely as-is.

I also tried out 4 different mics with the cab...and where I've used an AKG D1000E or a Fat Head for a lot of guitar tracking in the past couple of years....for this amp/cab/tone the 57 won out.
The AKG was really picking up the high-end too much, and the Fat Head was making it too dark.
I also tried a Senn 609, which was pretty good too, but had way to much of that low-mid punch....I mean, the string picking was like popping out real thick, and it wasn't what I wanted.
I mean...all the mics could easily be dialed in after the fact with some EQ....but the 57 ended up being the most plug-n-play for this rig.
 
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