The New Tone Thread

A local shop let me Take a BadCat unleash attenuator home to try for the weekend. I am not a fan of attenuators at all, but present living situation requires me to play nice with the neighbors. So it is either bring down the volume, or load up my shit and head to the band room, which isn't much fun at midnight.
As far as attenuators go, this one works as advertised and is fairly transparent. I would keep it if playing live were the only thing I needed it for, but this unit can't be run without a speaker attached, and I am looking to use some cab IR's for late night recording, so I will be going with the Rivera Rock Crusher Recording instead. I figured as long as I had it here I would record a sample, and share it with you folks.
Here is the signal chain: Huber Orca with Haussel 59's->>Two Rock Sensor 50 watt head MV @ 8 , gain @ 4, Tone stack bypassed->>BadCat Unleash, input and output between o and 1, Boss dd-6 in loop->>Reason 2-12 cab with 1 vintage 30, and 1 G12-75 ->> Blue Bluebird on G12-75 @ edge of dust cap in the grill and on axis, 57 on the vintage 30 same way->>Focusrite pro 40->>Logic Pro 9.
I added a bit of verb to get things sitting well with the backing track, and a little panning. Sitting in the room, this is about the same volume as a TV, or a quiet radio.
https://soundcloud.com/sheppardb/steppin-up
 
Not gonna get my hopes up, but I've found a Ceriatone Chupacabra for $875 shipped....I'm waiting on the guy to message me back...keep your fingers crossed & I might have the new amp a lot sooner than I expected....
 

Here's a clip of theGuyatone Mosrite copy with "gold foil" pickups...
The tone control is full treble, the amp has only vol control & starts at 9 o'clock but is moved to 10 o'clock later in the snippets.
The Marshal cab is mic'd with
L'Grange dynamic on axis at the edge of the dome.
57 off axis at the outside edge of the cone.
e600 on axis 1/2 way across the cone.
For most of the clip it's a blend of all three - couldn't decide. later on the blends change & I'll clarify what mics.
1st section as clean as the amp can be at about 8.o'clock and the guitar at 1/2 vol.
2nd is the same but amp at 9 o'clock.
3rd section all the same setting as last but
twice through a power chord riff with bridge PU,
twice through a power chord riff with neck PU,
twice through a power chord riff with both PUs.
4th section as with the 3rd but using my "fang" V notched plectrum
5th section as with 4th but amp set at 10'oclock,
6th section two open chord progressions with amp setting as above with bridge pickup & fang.
1st has
L'Grannge,
then 57 &
then e600
followed by all three.
Then LG & 57
then 57 & e600
then LG & e600
then all to end.
 
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SheppardB,
Sounds pretty good, hard to believe it was TV loud. I don't understand why you don't like it. I couldn't work out the logic - my head isn't working today.
 
It's not that I don't like it, as it does sound good, but recording silently with headphones is a function it lacks. You must have a cab plugged into the unit at all times. Not so with the Rock Crusher recording. When I record my band being able to use IR's instead of cabs will be handy for scratch tracks, as space is limited, and mic bleed impossible to avoid.
 
Attenuators - yeah for tube/valve a cab is needed - "load" etc has to be there for the amp to function.
You've captured a great sound given the cirumstances. I'd go with that. In fact it's waht many folk are looking for - good tone at low vol.
Opting for a tube.valve head & speaker/cab emulator is a touch to far for me.
I'm sure you'll do well - just not my cup of tea.
 
rayc said:

Here's a clip of theGuyatone Mosrite copy with "gold foil" pickups...
The tone control is full treble, the amp has only vol control & starts at 9 o'clock but is moved to 10 o'clock later in the snippets.
The Marshal cab is mic'd with
L'Grange dynamic on axis at the edge of the dome.
57 off axis at the outside edge of the cone.
e600 on axis 1/2 way across the cone.
For most of the clip it's a blend of all three - couldn't decide. later on the blends change & I'll clarify what mics.
1st section as clean as the amp can be at about 8.o'clock and the guitar at 1/2 vol.

.
Click to expand...
so are ALL those clips with the git at half volume?
 
SHEPPARDB. said:
A local shop let me Take a BadCat unleash attenuator home to try for the weekend. I am not a fan of attenuators at all, but present living situation requires me to play nice with the neighbors. So it is either bring down the volume, or load up my shit and head to the band room, which isn't much fun at midnight.
As far as attenuators go, this one works as advertised and is fairly transparent. I would keep it if playing live were the only thing I needed it for, but this unit can't be run without a speaker attached, and I am looking to use some cab IR's for late night recording, so I will be going with the Rivera Rock Crusher Recording instead. I figured as long as I had it here I would record a sample, and share it with you folks.
Here is the signal chain: Huber Orca with Haussel 59's->>Two Rock Sensor 50 watt head MV @ 8 , gain @ 4, Tone stack bypassed->>BadCat Unleash, input and output between o and 1, Boss dd-6 in loop->>Reason 2-12 cab with 1 vintage 30, and 1 G12-75 ->> Blue Bluebird on G12-75 @ edge of dust cap in the grill and on axis, 57 on the vintage 30 same way->>Focusrite pro 40->>Logic Pro 9.
I added a bit of verb to get things sitting well with the backing track, and a little panning. Sitting in the room, this is about the same volume as a TV, or a quiet radio.
https://soundcloud.com/sheppardb/steppin-up
Click to expand...
sounds pretty damned good ..... too bad it won't do silent recording 'cause that sounds like an loud amp.
 
Yeah, I'm kinda torn on taking it back. That clip was recorded at midnight in my town home. I am going to at least order the Rock Crusher Recording, and try some comparisons before making up my mind. Most all of the stuff I record with my band are scratch tracks for the purpose of capturing drums and bass, so the silent thing would be nice for keeping my amp out of the drum mics.
 
SHEPPARDB. said:
Yeah, I'm kinda torn on taking it back. That clip was recorded at midnight in my town home. I am going to at least order the Rock Crusher Recording, and try some comparisons before making up my mind. Most all of the stuff I record with my band are scratch tracks for the purpose of capturing drums and bass, so the silent thing would be nice for keeping my amp out of the drum mics.
Click to expand...

Seems like, I hate to say it, in your case direct recording with a sim would be the way to go if you're just laying down scratch tracks and need to do it quietly. Record the real thing later once the drums and bass are laid down.

I thought your clip sounded pretty good. I'm not crazy about that reverb, but the basic guitar tone was nice.
 
Lt. Bob said:
so are ALL those clips with the git at half volume?
Click to expand...

Yeah Ray, I liked some of what I heard, but shit, I can't keep track of all the changes you made. Lol.

From what I could gather though, I could be way misinterpreting this thing, it seems like the neck and bridge pickups are wired out of phase, and you got some phase issues happening with the mic blends.
 
Ray: Clips do sound pretty good to me, but it's really confusing trying to keep up with the different tones/sounds you were getting....

Sheppard: Pretty cool man, it does sound like a cranked amp, & I may be in the market for an attenuator before long, good to know the Bad Cat doesn't do the silent thing, which I may not even need, just sayin'....


Still waiting on the guy to message me back about the Chupacabra....Hope he hasn't sold it, but if he has, it's ok, I'll just wait another week or so & have a new one built...:D.
 
minerman said:
That sounds cool Greg, but why does it need power tubes....Red flag for me dude....I'm just paranoid about buying a used amp like that...

Nevermind, just re-read the listing, & he said it'd been checked over....but still dude...I dunno...LOL...That's a steal really though man...

I've got my heart set on the plexi/super lead too man, the JVM is on the list, but the hot-rodded plexi is something I've wanted for years...
Click to expand...

There's no telling if it actually needs tubes. A tech might have just been trying to sell him some tubes. I know a few techs here in houston that wanna sell you tubes with any job. 900 bucks though is a steal for a JVM - even if it does need power tubes. Just wanted to pass it along.
 
yeah ..... even if it needs tubes that's not an indication of a problem at all.
ALL tube amps need their power tubes replaced from time to time.
On my busiest amps I change them every couple of years.

When I buy tubes I look for a special and but 3 or 4 sets since eventually I'll need them.

And like Greg said, some techs try to screw their customers with unnecessary purchases.
I wouldn't worry about it too much.
 
Lt. Bob said:
so are ALL those clips with the git at half volume?
Click to expand...
Lt. Bob,
Sorry, I wasn't too clear.
The 1st three chords are at 1/2 volume on the Guyatone as that was the only way to keep the sound fairly clean. After that it's full blast on the guitar all the way.
It's visible on the Soundcloud thing as is the decline in volume from bridge to neck to both PUs.
 
Greg_L said:
Seems like, I hate to say it, in your case direct recording with a sim would be the way to go if you're just laying down scratch tracks and need to do it quietly. Record the real thing later once the drums and bass are laid down.

I thought your clip sounded pretty good. I'm not crazy about that reverb, but the basic guitar tone was nice.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I almost always go back and redo with the real thing. One thing you can't get with a highly attenuated amp is feed back.The feedback on the two rock is really musical, and I use it a lot. I'm thinking I will keep the unleash for the gigs where I can't get as loud as I want, and get a Rock Crusher Recording for laying down silent tracks. On a second listen today, I'm not crazy about that verb either. Doesn't sound very natural. I don't use verb much at all these days, but it seemed at the time that it needed a bit.
 
Greg_L said:
Yeah Ray, I liked some of what I heard, but shit, I can't keep track of all the changes you made. Lol.

From what I could gather though, I could be way misinterpreting this thing, it seems like the neck and bridge pickups are wired out of phase, and you got some phase issues happening with the mic blends.
Click to expand...
Greg, 1/2 vol for the 1st three chords only then the guitar is at full vol from then on. The amp is turned up later and it gets a little louder with the change of plectrum from standard heavy bass pick to fang.
Phase would explain the drop in vol of the combined puckups.
Phase on the mics - interesting. All but the L'Grange are on the grill & the L'G is 2 cm off. The 57 & L'G are through a Focusrite Scarlette (only 2 preamps on the thing) & the e600 through a Behringer Mic100.
Which bits sounded OK? Let me know, (time or a marker will do), & I'll let you know what's happening at that spot.
1st time with "gold foil" PUs so I'm interested. The sound in the room was good & when the guitar vol pot was turned up it was just short of ear ringingly loud.
 
minerman said:
Ray: Clips do sound pretty good to me, but it's really confusing trying to keep up with the different tones/sounds you were getting....

Sheppard: Pretty cool man, it does sound like a cranked amp, & I may be in the market for an attenuator before long, good to know the Bad Cat doesn't do the silent thing, which I may not even need, just sayin'....


Still waiting on the guy to message me back about the Chupacabra....Hope he hasn't sold it, but if he has, it's ok, I'll just wait another week or so & have a new one built...:D.
Click to expand...
If the deal on the Chupa falls through, check the classifieds over at the RigTalk forum. They pop up there often, and usually for under a grand.
 
even if pickups are wired in phase you still get phase cancellations when you use both p'ups because of them picking up different physical spots of the string ...... kinda like mics at different distances from a drum having phase issues.
Usually two combined p'ups are a bit softer than either by itself and they usually have that hollow sound to some extent too.
This isn't a hard and fast rule but it's usually the case.
 
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