The New Tone Thread

TripleM said:
Ah. So they use the same part, and just turn it on its head for the combo version?
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Yup. I don't know the exact technical specifics, but your 40C is probably mostly the same as a 100 w head, just flipped upside down with two less power tubes and maybe smaller transformers.

Back when Marshall made pretty much only 50 and 100 watt amps, the heads and combos were literally the exact same amp design. They were heads flipped upside down into combos.
 
GROAN ..... finally hit my busy season ..... too many freakin' gigs ...... gotta get moving ....... see ya' later, civilians who can enjoy their weekends.

:D

Well ok .... technically I'll enjoy my weekend since I like playing but arghhh ..... I'm gonna be a tired puppy come Tuesday.
On the brighter side I got 92 year old mom-in-law back in her house and back to normal after 7 weeks of hospitals/rehab. :)
 
Lt. Bob said:
GROAN ..... finally hit my busy season ..... too many freakin' gigs ...... gotta get moving ....... see ya' later, civilians who can enjoy their weekends.

:D

Well ok .... technically I'll enjoy my weekend since I like playing but arghhh ..... I'm gonna be a tired puppy come Tuesday.
On the brighter side I got 92 year old mom-in-law back in her house and back to normal after 7 weeks of hospitals/rehab. :)
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Dammit Boob, you play 10 million gigs a week, get us some video or soundclips or something. :D
 
New tone clip. This is a guitar/amp/cab/mic combo I haven't fiddled with yet using a mic that I pretty much never use. The new SG has been plugged into the Plexi since I got it. Time to run it through something else. Looking for a different-but-same generic raw punk rock rhythm sound for some new songs I've got coming up.

Gibson Angus Young SG - Angus sig bridge humbucker
JCM 800 2203 - high input
Presence - 5.5
Bass - 6
Mid - just past 4, not quite 4.5
Treble - 6
Preamp gain vol - 7
Master vol - 6
1960B 4x12 - Celestion Vintage 30 - SM57 center on grill - Sennheiser e609 edge on grill. Equal blend.
This has become my favorite mic setup. Not these mics in particular, but center/edge and blend. Sounds awesome to me.
No EQ/effects/processing

General Stupidity
 
I was heading out to gig when I saw you posted this and I've basically been gigging till now ....... 4 gigs at this point!

I'm liking the SG ...... I wish I could downstroke that fast and precisely ...... sounds good and really dry .... in a good way.

Nice
 
Cool thanks Boob. Ah yes, my downstrokes. The one thing I do well. Literally learning to play to Ramones records may have had one actual benefit :D

Hows the gigs been?

I'll have your package shipped out on tuesday like we talked about. :)
 
This may seem odd but I do downstrokes better on my Mosrite copy than on any of the other guitars I have.
That's a cool sound from the blend - reminded me of the Clash for some reason - may have been the chord progression.
The blend combo of placement and mics used on this is almost the same as the one I settled on for Heart Shaped Bruise. Mine didn't sounds as good though it was the best I could get.
 
rayc said:
This may seem odd but I do downstrokes better on my Mosrite copy than on any of the other guitars I have.
That's a cool sound from the blend - reminded me of the Clash for some reason - may have been the chord progression.
The blend combo of placement and mics used on this is almost the same as the one I settled on for Heart Shaped Bruise. Mine didn't sounds as good though it was the best I could get.
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Thanks Ray. Upon further reflection, that simple chord progression sounds way too much like Canon in D mixed with The Toy Dolls. But I might run with it anyway. Fuck it, everything sounds like something else. WTF do I care? I don't try to reinvent the wheel. I just play my rock and roll.

I'm a firm believer in using just one mic on a speaker. I think that if someone can't get a good sound with just one mic, they have no business trying to use more. But that's just me. I feel like I'm good enough with one mic to use two sometimes. I've recorded tons of what I think are good guitar tracks with just one mic. The center/edge combo seems to me to sound more like what I hear in my ears. In my little experiments, it's better than any other multi mic combination. You get the whole speaker sound, not just one sliver of it. Clarity and thickness all at once. They just gotta be in phase or it sounds like shit. I find that the edge mic needs to be backed off ever so slightly. I think it's because the shape of the speaker puts the edge closer to the grill than the center. That edge mic gets slammed a tiny bit sooner than the center mic. With the fine tuning editing capabilities of a modern DAW, you can also zoom way in and microslide one track to perfectly line up with the other. Works great. And of course you can blend them to taste. Too dark or too bright? Just slide one up or down. Bam. I think it works well.
 
I thought this sounded great. I think my personal preference is for a little more lower end than your personal preference. But this still sounded really good. I saw you dialed in a lot of preamp gain. That was going to be my next experiment with my DSL - see what it sounds like with more pre and a little less power amp gain.

When you use two mics, do you take care to resolve any phase issues? Since speakers are cone shaped, and both mics are on the grill, wouldn't the mic on the edge of the speaker be closer to the speaker? I didn't hear any phase problems, so I'm just wondering.
 
TripleM said:
I thought this sounded great. I think my personal preference is for a little more lower end than your personal preference. But this still sounded really good. I saw you dialed in a lot of preamp gain. That was going to be my next experiment with my DSL - see what it sounds like with more pre and a little less power amp gain.
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Thanks. The high preamp gain setting on this amp is a little misleading. None of my amps are high gain amps. My JVM can do super high gain on the appropriate channel, but my other amps, even at their highest settings are mild by today's standards. Your DSL probably has twice the gain available that my stock 2203 circuit 800 has. Even in the JCM 800's hair metal heyday, those guys were boosting the front end with overdrives or modding for more gain. I'll do a clip with a tube screamer later to try to get some hair glam sounds.

When you use two mics, do you take care to resolve any phase issues? Since speakers are cone shaped, and both mics are on the grill, wouldn't the mic on the edge of the speaker be closer to the speaker? I didn't hear any phase problems, so I'm just wondering.
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I will phase align the tracks if each track sounds good on it's own but together sounds bad. But usually, no I just leave it. The edge mic is actually closer to the speaker, but with both mics smashed up on the grill the difference is minimal enough to not worry about for me. As long as it doesn't have that hollow sea shell out-of-phase sound, I'm good.

They're easy to line up after the fact though with a DAW, if you want to. Just zoom way in, find a nice sharp peak, and line them up. Flip the phase on one track and listen. If the sound gets really thin and virtually disappears, you got it right.
 
Hey guys, just checking in to let you all know I'm still alive & well....plans for the week for my recording have fallen through, I can still record/play/whatever, I just need to upload my clips to a memory card, then go somewhere else to upload 'em....Can't go into details, but let's just say I'm still legally married, so is the new girlfriend, & we could both get into a lot of shit if we're not careful.....LOL....So, I'm hiding out until the shitstorm blows over....LOL.... The new amp is fuckin' awesome guys, it's stupid loud, & IMO, sounds killer with the cab I bought for it.....Whoever had the cab I bought must've really cranked through it, as almost all the bolts holding the speakers were loose....a couple of 'em actually had fallen out....so, the speakers are all broken in really good, & they sound great....$300 from Guitar Center for it was a really good deal IMO....The amp is just awesome, & I love it....the clean is just like the DSL-1's clean, just with more "oomph"/volume, the green crunch is great for classic rock type stuff....OD1 & OD2 are great IMO too, with more gain on tap than I'll ever need, but it's nice to know it's there if I ever wanna use it.....The Bogner Red pedal kicks ass too, it's best ran through the clean channel, using the pedal for all the gain/tone/etc.....The boos function is killer too, would be great for live use, as the gain & volume boost are adjustable (separate knobs for both), & actually adds quite a bit of volume when engaged.....I don't know why this computer won't let me separate my lines/paragraphs, as I'm at my nephew's place posting this, so I'm sorry for the long jumbled up mess.....Might put some clips on the external drive & bring 'em down here later tonight, but, I'm fuckin' lovin' the new amp/cab/pedal......Heading out of town in a couple of days, so I probably won't be around much (like usual....lol), but again, the new gear kicks ass.....Gimme a little time to get all my other shit lined out, & I'll be back like before.....
 
Yeah I know man, it's getting better, just gonna take time....I did record a new song last night with the new amp, & it kicks ass man....so far, my favorite mode/channel/whatever is the green crunch....Kinda like an 800 I suppose, sorta....Either way, lovin' the new amp.....And, I was gonna head outta town Thursday, but fuck it, we're leaving today, going to the beach....Been 24 fuckin' years since I've been there, & I'm gonna live it up until Sunday....Me & the new girlfriend are gonna leave about 5 this evening, & I won't be back to hillbillyville until Sunday night....Taking the laptop, so I'll be able to check in, in between me & the new girlfriend fucking.....LOL.....I feel like a teenager again man, trying to wear that thang......LOL....Life's good for a change!!!!
 
Listening to all of these Marshalls is giving me some serious GAS. The wife is playing the total enabler and encouraging me to pull the trigger as well.

This is all really helpful stuff. The more vintage Marshalls definitely have "it", but I think what I want out of a Marshall is some versatility and the occasional flight of fancy for high-gain stuff. It's sounding like the JVM is going to need to be the first one I try out.

I think that I've come to terms with the fact that my Mesa Lonestar Special is simply a darkly voiced amp, and it'll never sparkle like any of these Marshall clips that I'm hearing. For certain things, that amp is absolutely pitch-a-tent sexy, but when it comes time to rock it's just not doing it for me.

I think I'm gonna find a good single-coil guitar that'll get along with the Mesa's voicing, and find a rip-roaring Marshall that'll get along with the hot humbuckers in my LP.

Oh, and I think I found what is wrong with the 5 and 10 watt settings on my LSS. Those 2 power settings use the rectifier tube, and the 30 watt setting uses the solid-state rectifier. So I think that my rectifier tube blew out, which is apparently a common problem with these amps. A replacement is on the way, and a trip to guitar center is imminent. With any luck and some disregard for financial maturity, I should be rocking a new guitar and amp in the next couple of weeks.
 
minerman said:
Yeah I know man, it's getting better, just gonna take time....I did record a new song last night with the new amp, & it kicks ass man....so far, my favorite mode/channel/whatever is the green crunch....Kinda like an 800 I suppose, sorta....Either way, lovin' the new amp.....And, I was gonna head outta town Thursday, but fuck it, we're leaving today, going to the beach....Been 24 fuckin' years since I've been there, & I'm gonna live it up until Sunday....Me & the new girlfriend are gonna leave about 5 this evening, & I won't be back to hillbillyville until Sunday night....Taking the laptop, so I'll be able to check in, in between me & the new girlfriend fucking.....LOL.....I feel like a teenager again man, trying to wear that thang......LOL....Life's good for a change!!!!
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Lol. TMI dude. :D

I like Green Crunch on the DSL too. That's the ticket. That's the most "classic Marshall" that amp can sound. Can't wait to hear it dude.

Tadpui said:
Listening to all of these Marshalls is giving me some serious GAS. The wife is playing the total enabler and encouraging me to pull the trigger as well.

This is all really helpful stuff. The more vintage Marshalls definitely have "it", but I think what I want out of a Marshall is some versatility and the occasional flight of fancy for high-gain stuff. It's sounding like the JVM is going to need to be the first one I try out.

I think that I've come to terms with the fact that my Mesa Lonestar Special is simply a darkly voiced amp, and it'll never sparkle like any of these Marshall clips that I'm hearing. For certain things, that amp is absolutely pitch-a-tent sexy, but when it comes time to rock it's just not doing it for me.

I think I'm gonna find a good single-coil guitar that'll get along with the Mesa's voicing, and find a rip-roaring Marshall that'll get along with the hot humbuckers in my LP.

Oh, and I think I found what is wrong with the 5 and 10 watt settings on my LSS. Those 2 power settings use the rectifier tube, and the 30 watt setting uses the solid-state rectifier. So I think that my rectifier tube blew out, which is apparently a common problem with these amps. A replacement is on the way, and a trip to guitar center is imminent. With any luck and some disregard for financial maturity, I should be rocking a new guitar and amp in the next couple of weeks.
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Awesome. I got a JVM410 sitting right here next to me. If you wanna hear anything specific, let me know and I'll try to do some clips for you. I'm not a good player, but I can run through the amp and give you some examples.
 
Greg_L said:
Lol. TMI dude. :D

I like Green Crunch on the DSL too. That's the ticket. That's the most "classic Marshall" that amp can sound. Can't wait to hear it dude.



Awesome. I got a JVM410 sitting right here next to me. If you wanna hear anything specific, let me know and I'll try to do some clips for you. I'm not a good player, but I can run through the amp and give you some examples.
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Thanks man, I really appreciate the offer. I listened to some YouTube stuff, and a lot of those are of questionable quality. Then I got distracted listening to Nels Cline jabber about all of his gear for an hour, then watched a couple of goofs playing Fender Jazzmasters...then I remembered that I was shopping for Marshalls. Damned internet.

Actually, the YouTube vid that I watched was pretty good. The guy was playing a double humbucker solidbody through it, so it's at least in the same ballpark as my guitar. The only thing that scares me a little is what you guys noted above, that it doesn't do as well when the master volume is cranked. In my mind, that's where the magic happens, it's where you overcome any of that compressed-sounding power section, and it opens up into some blissful power tube saturation.

And while my higher brain is telling me to stop buying combos because they tend to shake themselves to pieces, I don't see any 20W-30W options in that head line. Is there such a thing as a versatile 30W Marshall head? Is it even in the same tone ballpark as the higher wattage versions? I see a DSL 15W, but it uses different tubes (not the EL-34s that I associate with that Marshall sound).

Sorry so many questions...I've just been in gear shop-aholic mode for the last several days.
 
Tadpui said:
Thanks man, I really appreciate the offer. I listened to some YouTube stuff, and a lot of those are of questionable quality. Then I got distracted listening to Nels Cline jabber about all of his gear for an hour, then watched a couple of goofs playing Fender Jazzmasters...then I remembered that I was shopping for Marshalls. Damned internet.

Actually, the YouTube vid that I watched was pretty good. The guy was playing a double humbucker solidbody through it, so it's at least in the same ballpark as my guitar. The only thing that scares me a little is what you guys noted above, that it doesn't do as well when the master volume is cranked. In my mind, that's where the magic happens, it's where you overcome any of that compressed-sounding power section, and it opens up into some blissful power tube saturation.

And while my higher brain is telling me to stop buying combos because they tend to shake themselves to pieces, I don't see any 20W-30W options in that head line. Is there such a thing as a versatile 30W Marshall head? Is it even in the same tone ballpark as the higher wattage versions? I see a DSL 15W, but it uses different tubes (not the EL-34s that I associate with that Marshall sound).

Sorry so many questions...I've just been in gear shop-aholic mode for the last several days.
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The DSL40 is an EL34 combo. It will also go half-power.

It's not that the JVM doesn't do well with the volume cranked, it does very well, it just doesn't easily go into massive meltdown like the older models do. By the time you get there you're way too loud for a band practice or small gig, but it's fine for recording if you're in a situation to play that loud. By the same token, it maintains it's tone pretty much no matter where the volume is set. I modded mine to have an adjustable negative feedback control which gets the power section cooking at any volume. The mod was simple and cheap. Did it myself. It makes the amp behave more like a master volume JMP/JCM 800. I can only assume that the amp was designed to be so tight because of it's insane amounts of gain. Those modern metal chugga-chugga guys need a tight power section and that's really what the amp is mainly designed to do. The JVM is a high gain modern players amp with lower gain options for the rest of us.
 
Greg_L said:
The DSL40 is an EL34 combo. It will also go half-power.

It's not that the JVM doesn't do well with the volume cranked, it does very well, it just doesn't easily go into massive meltdown like the older models do. By the time you get there you're way too loud for a band practice or small gig, but it's fine for recording if you're in a situation to play that loud. By the same token, it maintains it's tone pretty much no matter where the volume is set. I modded mine to have an adjustable negative feedback control which gets the power section cooking at any volume. The mod was simple and cheap. Did it myself. It makes the amp behave more like a master volume JMP/JCM 800. I can only assume that the amp was designed to be so tight because of it's insane amounts of gain. Those modern metal chugga-chugga guys need a tight power section and that's really what the amp is mainly designed to do. The JVM is a high gain modern players amp with lower gain options for the rest of us.
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Wow, thanks for the insight! That (not so) little 40W combo might be calling my name. It kind of hits all of my check-boxes for a Marshall amp. Except that speaker...the Celestion Seventy/80. My Traynor YCV80 has a pair of those in it and I've never been a fan of them. From what I can gather, those are Celestion's "cover your ass" speaker, made for a wide variety of tones. Ya know, the jack of all trades, master of none. The low end on them sounds flabby to me. At least I think that's the speaker...could just be how the amp is.

Any speaker you'd recommend for a nice, tight low end, while retaining those terrific mids and highs that you all are getting in this thread? I'm leery of that seventy/80.

And am I seeing the price correctly: $700 new? Where is it made...Indochinanesiastan?
 
Tadpui said:
Wow, thanks for the insight! That (not so) little 40W combo might be calling my name. It kind of hits all of my check-boxes for a Marshall amp. Except that speaker...the Celestion Seventy/80. My Traynor YCV80 has a pair of those in it and I've never been a fan of them. From what I can gather, those are Celestion's "cover your ass" speaker, made for a wide variety of tones. Ya know, the jack of all trades, master of none. The low end on them sounds flabby to me. At least I think that's the speaker...could just be how the amp is.

Any speaker you'd recommend for a nice, tight low end, while retaining those terrific mids and highs that you all are getting in this thread? I'm leery of that seventy/80.

And am I seeing the price correctly: $700 new? Where is it made...Indochinanesiastan?
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Yes, the new DSL line is made in the orient somewhere. I think malaysia or vietnam or something? I don't know. It's definitely asianese. I haven't heard of any quality issues yet though.

As for speakers, any of the top shelf Celestions will fit that amp well. Keep in mind the DSL40 is a single 12 though, so you'll need a speaker that can handle it's 40 watts. A Greenback is out of the question. The G12H30 sounds great but it's not powerful enough either. If you want tight lows and big mids and highs, a Vintage 30 would make that baby sing. The new 65w Creamback seems like a kick ass speaker, though I've never tried one myself. That's one that has me very interested though. And of course you can probably find people giving away G12T-75s, but that's a more big bottom end sound.

WGS also has a bunch of cool Celestion knockoffs that sound very good and they have really good prices.

Scumback makes cool Celestion inspired stuff too, but they're a little pricey.

I'd say look for a clean used Vintage 30 and get to work.
 
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