The headphone dilemma

Junkiest maybe, but I am willing to put in effort and as much time as I can. So, I think the "easiest, most halfassed" part of your criticism is unfair.

As for cutting back somewhere else, that once was easier to do back when I was single and had no kids. I don't know if you're the sole breadwinner for your family, but if you are then you know that any money you're able to save has about 10 other things in front of it before it gets to go to your fun little hobby.

Actually, I was in the same situation (kids are grown now and really don't require as much). But money is just an ends to a means. If you're creative, you can get there, just not directly (trading, looking for deals, barter). There are so many ways to get there, money is just the easiest, not the only way. Maybe do some coffeehouses with tip jar. Hell, you never know.
 
Junkiest maybe, but I am willing to put in effort and as much time as I can. So, I think the "easiest, most halfassed" part of your criticism is unfair.

As for cutting back somewhere else, that once was easier to do back when I was single and had no kids. I don't know if you're the sole breadwinner for your family, but if you are then you know that any money you're able to save has about 10 other things in front of it before it gets to go to your fun little hobby.

I get all that. I'm not saying you have to go out and spend $1000 on monitors, but I know from your other thread that you want to spend no money on an interface. Okay fine. You want to spend no money on even a basic cheap set of headphones. Okay fine. You want to mix in your car via bluetooth. Lol, fine. That's all fine and well. Knock yourself out. I also get the impression that you have champagne taste and a beer wallet. You want big huge professional sounding layered guitars ala Helmet and Soundgarden while being unwilling to acquire any of the tools to do so. You want to make mixes that sound good while being unwilling to acquire any of the tools to do so. Then I can only assume that you'll be back in here asking tons of questions about why your sounds suck, and that's fine, but you haven't done your own part. Just asking questions and finding a way around the answer because it's not what you want to hear is counterproductive for everyone. Finding "workarounds" is creative, but there's no replacement for doing things the way they're actually done. My basic point is this: If you're new child is going to starve because you spent less than a hundred bucks on a simple USB interface and a set of headphones, then I don't think you're ready for a new hobby.
 
My basic point is this: If you're new child is going to starve because you spent less than a hundred bucks on a simple USB interface and a set of headphones, then I don't think you're ready for a new hobby.

It might be more of a my-spouse-wont-let-me kind of thing.

 
I get all that. I'm not saying you have to go out and spend $1000 on monitors, but I know from your other thread that you want to spend no money on an interface. Okay fine. You want to spend no money on even a basic cheap set of headphones. Okay fine. You want to mix in your car via bluetooth. Lol, fine. That's all fine and well. Knock yourself out. I also get the impression that you have champagne taste and a beer wallet. You want big huge professional sounding layered guitars ala Helmet and Soundgarden while being unwilling to acquire any of the tools to do so. You want to make mixes that sound good while being unwilling to acquire any of the tools to do so. Then I can only assume that you'll be back in here asking tons of questions about why your sounds suck, and that's fine, but you haven't done your own part. Just asking questions and finding a way around the answer because it's not what you want to hear is counterproductive for everyone. Finding "workarounds" is creative, but there's no replacement for doing things the way they're actually done. My basic point is this: If you're new child is going to starve because you spent less than a hundred bucks on a simple USB interface and a set of headphones, then I don't think you're ready for a new hobby.

I see how you might have gotten that impression, but it's not really accurate. I've done a tiny bit of recording before, not knowing anything really, and I was already impressed with what I got. (I don't know what I was expecting...cell phone quality recording maybe.) Then I started listening to music I liked more with producer's ears and noticing things and wondering "Hey, how did they do that?" or "Why did they do that?" So I started reading around and eventually found this forum, where I decided to ask some of those questions.

I figured people would respond back with "Well, you can't expect to be able to do that unless you buy X Y and Z" and so I was ready to explain that my budget is basically 0. if I can free up $100, it goes into the savings account first. If not there, then it goes into paying down a college loan. Or a medical bill. Etc.

I don't have champagne taste. Don't know where you got that from.

I do have a pair of Behringer headphones. They're nothing fancy, but definitely a step up from the $20 Sony headphones you can buy at CVS.
 
Actually, I was in the same situation (kids are grown now and really don't require as much). But money is just an ends to a means. If you're creative, you can get there, just not directly (trading, looking for deals, barter). There are so many ways to get there, money is just the easiest, not the only way. Maybe do some coffeehouses with tip jar. Hell, you never know.

Yep, I hear ya. So, I decided to sell my mixer to buy an interface. That's step 1. Then I know I can probably borrow some other gear from friends.
 
I see how you might have gotten that impression, but it's not really accurate. I've done a tiny bit of recording before, not knowing anything really, and I was already impressed with what I got. (I don't know what I was expecting...cell phone quality recording maybe.) Then I started listening to music I liked more with producer's ears and noticing things and wondering "Hey, how did they do that?" or "Why did they do that?" So I started reading around and eventually found this forum, where I decided to ask some of those questions.

I figured people would respond back with "Well, you can't expect to be able to do that unless you buy X Y and Z" and so I was ready to explain that my budget is basically 0. if I can free up $100, it goes into the savings account first. If not there, then it goes into paying down a college loan. Or a medical bill. Etc.

I don't have champagne taste. Don't know where you got that from.

I do have a pair of Behringer headphones. They're nothing fancy, but definitely a step up from the $20 Sony headphones you can buy at CVS.

That's fair enough, I get it. Don't get me wrong - I'm not by any means a gear snob. I hope you do succeed at getting whatever results you want on an extreme budget. I'm never one to tell people to buy the best of everything because I know that's unnecessary. I argue with some people pretty regularly over not needing the most professional high end pieces of gear. I'm always on the "not needing "side of the fence. I'm just saying...some basic pieces of relatively inexpensive equipment are necessary - like an interface and something halfway decent to monitor with.
 
That's fair enough, I get it. Don't get me wrong - I'm not by any means a gear snob. I hope you do succeed at getting whatever results you want on an extreme budget. I'm never one to tell people to buy the best of everything because I know that's unnecessary. I argue with some people pretty regularly over not needing the most professional high end pieces of gear. I'm always on the "not needing "side of the fence. I'm just saying...some basic pieces of relatively inexpensive equipment are necessary - like an interface and something halfway decent to monitor with.

I hear that. Like I said, I'm going to sell my mixer to buy an interface (you guys convinced me on that one) and I'll try and borrow anything else I can. As for monitors, I really don't know yet. Even if I could afford some, I mostly never get the opportunity to play music above a whisper in my house in my free time. That's just a practical part of having a real young kid and a day job, I guess.

So my game plan monitor-wise right now is to try out the car method, if that sounds like crap I'll have been warned (so politely!) and I'll understand why it sounds like crap, and then I'll figure out something else. Maybe take my project to a buddy's house (it's on a laptop after all) and spend an hour here or there on the weekends mixing it.
 
Is there an English translation of that link somewhere? Nothing against Boris Mikhaylov, but when he writes stuff like "A typical stereo records are being made to listen by speakers" I have trouble understanding him.

I didn't even read that stuff, I just downloaded and tried the VST plugin. It seems to address the basic problem of mixing on headphones: lack of speaker cross bleed and the tendency to mix center panned things too loud. You still need good quality headphones, with relatively flat and wide response.
 
Junkiest maybe, but I am willing to put in effort and as much time as I can. So, I think the "easiest, most halfassed" part of your criticism is unfair.

As for cutting back somewhere else, that once was easier to do back when I was single and had no kids. I don't know if you're the sole breadwinner for your family, but if you are then you know that any money you're able to save has about 10 other things in front of it before it gets to go to your fun little hobby.
I get your point, but I also understand (and agree with) Greg's frustration. You are asking, essentially, "How do I get a good mix without doing any of the things necessary to get a good mix?" The answer is, "You can't."

You can get a cheap Radio Shack dynamic mike, a bargain basement ADC, a pair of earbuds that the airlines give out in coach, and a no-name Android tablet and record, mix and master music. And there is nothing you can do that will make it sound great. While it's true that an experienced, professional engineer will produce better output on such a rig than an amateur who knows little or nothing about recording will in a high-end studio, the fact remains that, to achieve high-quality, fully-spectrum, dimensional sound, you have to have gear that meets a minimum set of specifications. If you don't, you won't.

It's been explained to you, in some detail, why mixing with headphones or in your car is a bad idea, i.e. it won't work. A system that will work won't break the bank, but it does require some investment. If you really don't care what your music sounds like, then go ahead and get a pair of headphones and mix away to your heart's content. Your friends and family may like your music, but no one is going to mistake the final product for anything that remotely approaches professional quality. If that's good enough for you, I recommend these: Amazon.com: Panasonic RP-HTF600-S Stereo Over-ear Headphones: Electronics. I bought a few of them for vocalists to use when I was doing a location recording with multiple performers. For $30, they sound pretty nice. However, I would not, under any circumstances, use them for mixing.

The simple fact is that, if you want to produce anything that sounds reasonably good (and I'd suggest you listen to the tracks of some of the people in this thread who have given you advice to hear what can be achieved with a home setup), you're going to have to buy a couple of monitor speakers. I started mixing with a $300 set of Shure headphones -- these sound great and are considered entry-level audiophile cans. And I couldn't get a decently-balanced mix to save my life. It was only after I bought a pair of KRK Rokit8 near-filed monitors (cost approx. $600) that I was able to turn out a half-way decent mix. There are cheaper near-fields than the Rokit8s, and they may work fine for you but, again, there is a minimum set of specs that any system must meet to turn out high-quality audio.

By the way, there's a great thread here on HR called something like "Home Recording's Dirty Little Secret," which I suggest that you read. The bottom line of the thread is that, though you can do some amazing work in a home studio, there's a reason why professional studios, staffed by professional engineers, will always put out technically and acoustically better product.
 
As for monitors, I really don't know yet. Even if I could afford some, I mostly never get the opportunity to play music above a whisper in my house in my free time. That's just a practical part of having a real young kid and a day job, I guess.
I don't have kids, but I do have a day job and a wife who is easily irritated by loud music. :) The monitors that everyone is talking about here are called, "near fields," meaning they're designed and intended to be used very close to the person doing the mixing. You don't have to mix at the volume that you would listen to the recording. I frequently wind up mixing late at night and can do so effectively without disturbing the neighbors or incurring my wife's wrath. Unless your child is in the same room with you, as long as you can close the door of wherever it is you mix, you should be fine. Believe me, if you have to make a compromise between mixing on near fields at too low a volume and mixing on headphones, you are really much better off mixing on the near fields.
 
By the way, there's a great thread here on HR called something like "Home Recording's Dirty Little Secret," which I suggest that you read. The bottom line of the thread is that, though you can do some amazing work in a home studio, there's a reason why professional studios, staffed by professional engineers, will always put out technically and acoustically better product.

Yep. I went on there and voted for the "I don't expect my music to sound professional" option.

I can't emphasize enough that I'm not expecting a professional result. I'm just trying to get the best result with what I've got. My limited experience has shown me that with care, patience, and by learning as much as I can, the result I can get is surprisingly good.
 
I don't have kids, but I do have a day job and a wife who is easily irritated by loud music. :) The monitors that everyone is talking about here are called, "near fields," meaning they're designed and intended to be used very close to the person doing the mixing. You don't have to mix at the volume that you would listen to the recording. I frequently wind up mixing late at night and can do so effectively without disturbing the neighbors or incurring my wife's wrath. Unless your child is in the same room with you, as long as you can close the door of wherever it is you mix, you should be fine. Believe me, if you have to make a compromise between mixing on near fields at too low a volume and mixing on headphones, you are really much better off mixing on the near fields.

Good to know, thanks. I think I read elsewhere too that it's better to mix at low volume.
 
Going back to the car topic... it's been talked about beyond dead horses. No problem though. New people might find it difficult to search through the forums.

My take on evaluating mixes in your car is it is not an ideal place, but it is very familiar to us. At least to us americans who spend so much time in a car. The speakers suck and the acoustics are horrible, but we listen to it enough that we understand the weaknesses of a car audio system. And we know how commercial mixes should sound in a car.

So I say knock yourself out with your Bluetooth connection and check your mixes there. Be sure to listen to commercially released material similar to your music as reference material. and be sure to listen to your mixes on every other type of sound system that you can.

One of my first mixes, I burned to a CD and took it over to my dad's place for him to listen to. He played it on his tv of all places. :facepalm: gawd, it sounded horrible.....
 
On the TV? That's funny.
:D

And I think that's very true ChiliDude. I know my truck system really well. I did replace the deck and speakers so I've got a good crankin system but you're right. I know the strengths and weaknesses of it and it's one of the first places I go to check mixes.

oh... and g'mornin fellers. :)
 
On the TV? That's funny.
:D

And I think that's very true ChiliDude. I know my truck system really well. I did replace the deck and speakers so I've got a good crankin system but you're right. I know the strengths and weaknesses of it and it's one of the first places I go to check mixes.

oh... and g'mornin fellers. :)

Guilty, two places I check all mixes besides on the monitors. Home stereo and car. If it doesn't sound good there, it will get fixed.
 
One of my first mixes, I burned to a CD and took it over to my dad's place for him to listen to. He played it on his tv of all places. :facepalm: gawd, it sounded horrible.....
A lot of people don't have home stereos any longer, but do have DVD players hooked up to TV and 5.1 sound system, so "playing a CD on a TV" is not that far off - get it to sound good there, too!
 
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