The headphone dilemma

H

Hazard Nova

Everything in moderation
I know I shouldn't mix using headphones, and I understand why I shouldn't use them. But here are two reasons why I probably will anyway:

-Recording music is just something I do for fun in my very limited free time--hopefully I can do it well enough to create something that will impress my friends, but I'm not expecting anything beyond that. Creating music definitely isn't something I would budget more than about $20 for at this point. So, even a low-end pair of studio monitors (at about $150) is out of my budget by an order of magnitude.

-I really only get time to work on music late at night when I don't want to wake my daughter (or my neighbors for that matter). To an outside observer it has to be basically silent.

I figure a lot of people here must be in a similar situation, so I'm curious if anyone's found a workaround that doesn't involve spending money you don't have and/or pissing people off. Because after all, I would like to at least try to do this mixing stuff properly.

Apologies if issues like these have already been decidedly settled elsewhere--just please send a link if you don't mind.
 
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The problem with headphone mixing is, the mix sounds different in headphones than it will in speakers. I'm sure it can be done, but the results are going to be disappointing when you hear it on speakers. If you get an idea of the difference and know how to adjust, you could probably come up with a compromise that you can live with. But $20, I think you may not like what you hear.
 
A thought: How would your friends be listening to your work? Computer speakers? Car speakers? Earbuds?

You could conceivably monitor with either of the two above speaker methods at your price point. Ideal? Hell no. Workable? Maybe
 
mdainsd said:
A thought: How would your friends be listening to your work? Computer speakers? Car speakers? Earbuds?

You could conceivably monitor with either of the two above speaker methods at your price point. Ideal? Hell no. Workable? Maybe
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Good question. They certainly won't be using professional sound systems...I guess it'd be either of the 3 you listed.
 
Yeah, but that's not the point.....ah, never mind. No offense, man, but this has been discussed a million times. Maybe you'll get validation from someone who's willing to tell you what you want to hear. But, the fact is, you're not going to get good mixes with $100 headphones, let alone, $20 ones. It's got nothing to do with what others will be listening with. That's totally irrelevant.
 
FOR FUTURE READERS: I just found an imperfect but optimal solution. The speaker system in my car was able to bluetooth-sync with my laptop. Others may be able to hook into their car audio via other means.

The car audio is stereo, it's reasonably good quality (certainly better than computer speakers anyway), and it's an isolated location where I won't be bugging anyone. And if I am bugging someone, I can drive somewhere else.

Granted, your limited unless you have a laptop you can mix on, and your mixing session can only last as long as your battery, but if you go at night and turn your brightness all the way down it should last a fairly long time.

Make sure you sit in the middle of the back seat.

Obviously this isn't ideal, but it's probably better than headphones or cheap speakers.
 
You could then use your cell phone to call a buddy who is next to the computer, and then phone in mixing adjustments to him, while you sit in the car listening to the adjustments in real time.

:)

I dunno....I get my mother up from Florida during the summer....she has her bedroom almost adjacent to where my studio is.
I'm rocking guitars at 3AM....she's sound asleep.
AFA as mixing....I mean, you don't need to have speakers up all that loud to mix....but they will sound better than headphones. Unless someone is in the room with you, just close the door, and the mix away at lower levels....then when you can during the day, crank it up a bit and recheck your mixes.

I think almost everyone goes through the "Can I mix with headphones?" phase...or at some point it crosses their mind.
You can probably "prep" your mixes with the headphones.....but you want to make those final adjustment decisions on monitors.
 
I do most of my mixing at low volumes FWIW. You will need to turn them up to get some stuff right, but you can get a long way.... and it's like miro says.
 
Hazard Nova said:
FOR FUTURE READERS: I just found an imperfect but optimal solution. The speaker system in my car was able to bluetooth-sync with my laptop. Others may be able to hook into their car audio via other means.

The car audio is stereo, it's reasonably good quality (certainly better than computer speakers anyway), and it's an isolated location where I won't be bugging anyone. And if I am bugging someone, I can drive somewhere else.

Granted, your limited unless you have a laptop you can mix on, and your mixing session can only last as long as your battery, but if you go at night and turn your brightness all the way down it should last a fairly long time.

Make sure you sit in the middle of the back seat.

Obviously this isn't ideal, but it's probably better than headphones or cheap speakers.
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No, it probably isn't. Cheap headphones would probably be better than sitting in a car mixing.

This is a common theme from you: you keep looking for the junkiest, easiest, most halfassed way to do things. That's fair, but damn dude, cut back somewhere else for a little while so you can buy a few tools to do things better.
 
:rolleyes:

MIXING WITH HEADPHONES: Feasible but not recommended and far from ideal.

SITTING IN A 5' X 3' BOX WITH HORRIBLE ACOUSTICS AND DIM LIGHTS: Probably even worse than mixing with headphones.

PEOPLE TOO WORRIED ABOUT HURTING SOMEONE'S FEELINGS TO TELL HIM THE TRUTH: Frickin' Priceless.
 
Isn't getting the mix to sound good on the worst speakers available pretty much the goal? I've seen interviews where pros say they sort out the low end on decent monitors, then switch to their $10 grotbox computer speakers to do the rest of the mix. Isn't the OP doing just that second step by mixing in the car? He just needs to sort out the first step.
 
jonny deep said:
Isn't getting the mix to sound good on the worst speakers available pretty much the goal?
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In a roundabout way, yes, but I don't think that's the goal with mixing. That's a tangent of the actual goal. The goal is a good mix. A good mix will sound good anywhere, regardless of whatever you use for playback.

Could this fella make a good mix in a car? Sure. After some trial-and-error, anyone with functioning ears can eventually work out a passable mix on any speakers. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I'm pretty confident that I could make a decent mix sitting in a car. Do I want to? Fuck no. Not when I can sit at my monitors and make a good mix that translates everywhere in one pass. There's a reason professional mixing engineers don't mix music in a Toyota hatchback.

I'm starting to suspect that we're being trolled.
 
jonny deep said:
Isn't getting the mix to sound good on the worst speakers available pretty much the goal? I've seen interviews where pros say they sort out the low end on decent monitors, then switch to their $10 grotbox computer speakers to do the rest of the mix. Isn't the OP doing just that second step by mixing in the car? He just needs to sort out the first step.
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Like Greg said, yes and no. When mix engineers check on cheap speakers, they're doing it in a room that isn't affecting the outcome. Sitting in the backseat of a 3' X 5' box that has a ceiling so low hat you HAVE to sit down, means that your "room" is going to totally distort the results. So, at best, you'll get a mix that only sounds good if someone's sitting in the back seat of the same car listening through the same speakers. As soon as he takes that mix to an IPod, ghetto blaster, home stereo...or anything other than THAT car, it will not translate.

I bet if we asked 100 REAL mix engineers if they check their mixes on different systems, including cars, etc....the answer would be "NO". It's a myth. They don't run out to the garage or any stupidity like that. They just get the best mix in the studio and they know it will translate everywhere.

I can't believe anyone's even remotely taking this seriously.
 
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Rami hit the nail on the head- getting the mix to translate everywhere. If you can 'learn' your monitoring system (whatever it is) so that you can do this, your problem is solved. Bluetoothing to your car stereo is one way to CHECK your mix, but not what to base your mix on. I burn a CD and check on home stereo, home 5.1 system, vehicle system, but also use my monitors, computer speakers, and cheap 6" bookshelf speakers driven by an old Sony amp. I probably should use earbuds, too, but I sold my good Shure ones. I have learned my monitoring system enough now that I seldom need to do more than tweak a final mix a little bit here and there, and can rest assured that my first stab at a final mix is 95% of the way there.
 
Greg_L said:
This is a common theme from you: you keep looking for the junkiest, easiest, most halfassed way to do things. That's fair, but damn dude, cut back somewhere else for a little while so you can buy a few tools to do things better.
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Junkiest maybe, but I am willing to put in effort and as much time as I can. So, I think the "easiest, most halfassed" part of your criticism is unfair.

As for cutting back somewhere else, that once was easier to do back when I was single and had no kids. I don't know if you're the sole breadwinner for your family, but if you are then you know that any money you're able to save has about 10 other things in front of it before it gets to go to your fun little hobby.
 
And that's pretty much why I said, if it's workin for ya, roll widdit TIL IT DON'T.

That last part is gonna come into play as you get better at all of this. You'll start seeing the "holes" in not having a good setup with decent monitors.

Until then, fuck it. Use what you've got, learn that thoroughly and then go buy the best you can afford based on the knowledge you've attained so far.

Know what I mean?
 
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