A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
...
The Tascam 244 has a S/N Ratio of 90dB under optimal conditions.
The Tascam 244 has a S/N Ratio of 90dB under optimal conditions.
The best way to transfer the analog signal from my 244 to my computer
- Thread starter Illsidgus
- Start date
Farview
Well-known member
At 3%THD at 20hz with the DBX on and tracking well. Without DBX, it's 58db.The Tascam 244 has a S/N Ratio of 90dB under optimal conditions.
To give you an idea of what 3% THD is: A pair of KT88 power tubes in a 50 watt Marshall pushed to put out 100 watts will only be giving you 2.5% THD.
So, yes, under perfect conditions, overdriving the crap out of the audio with the DBX on, the SN will be within 1db of the SN of 16 bit digital at 20hz. Within 6db at 20kHz. It's too bad the result would be unlistenable.
When you say you do everything in 24 bit, you are talking about a non-cassette based format I assume?
Hey Farview! I'm sure this all makes perfect sense to some one more on the ball than I, but I'm a little confused ha. In the first quote you said it doesn't affect processing, and in the second quote you said it did. And also, what would be the reason for " always mixdown to 24 bit, then convert during mastering"? I can't see why you say this. Overall, considering that I am recording from 4 track, it makes no real difference to save in 16 bit right? The digital noise floor will be inconsequential, correct?
And I mostly record without DBX. I just like it better. With the added tape hiss compared to recording with DBX, the digital noise floor must be non-existent, no? And 16 bit loses no sound quality right?
Sorry for my ignorance. Thanks again good sir.
Farview
Well-known member
Every once in a while, somone will come to the studio to transfer from cassette. I do it at 24 bit. Mainly because it ends up being some sort of restoration project that requires a lot if processing and I do eventually rewrite the files with the processed version.
The reason why it seems like I contradict myself is because you have to recognize the difference between online and offline processing, also known as non-destructive and destructive processing.
Most of the time when you are mixing, the original audio files are played through the plugins and mixer and you hear the result of the processing, but the files don't change. This is online or nondestructive processing. In that case, having 16 bit files will not matter.
There is a way to directly process the audio file itself. This is offline or destructive processing. This is where 24 bit will be better. That is because all the processing is done at a very high bit depth, but in order to write the processing to the file it has to resolve it to the bit depth of the file. When you do this, you want a higher bit depth to put all the processing noise way down below where it could poesibly make a difference.
The reason to stay at a high bit depth until mastering is so any processing in mastering will create its noise down in the part of the audio that will be cut off when it is finally converted to 16 bit. That gets rid of any anomolies caused by any processing. If you start at 16 bit and do the processing, all the processing noise will occur at a point that will always be part of te audio. ( and with all digital recordings, at a point where it might be possible to hear)
I know this seems very convoluted, but if you started to look under the hood of your tape deck and started to get into the finer points of tape bias, magnetic flux, etc... it would be just as tech-y and weird.
The bottom line is, there is no good reason not to record at 24 bit. It doesn't cost more, it doesn't hurt and it won't sterilize your cat. But, since you already transferred at 16 bit, there isn't much point in redoing the transfers that you have already done. In the future, do it at 24 bit and you don't have to worry about it.
The reason why it seems like I contradict myself is because you have to recognize the difference between online and offline processing, also known as non-destructive and destructive processing.
Most of the time when you are mixing, the original audio files are played through the plugins and mixer and you hear the result of the processing, but the files don't change. This is online or nondestructive processing. In that case, having 16 bit files will not matter.
There is a way to directly process the audio file itself. This is offline or destructive processing. This is where 24 bit will be better. That is because all the processing is done at a very high bit depth, but in order to write the processing to the file it has to resolve it to the bit depth of the file. When you do this, you want a higher bit depth to put all the processing noise way down below where it could poesibly make a difference.
The reason to stay at a high bit depth until mastering is so any processing in mastering will create its noise down in the part of the audio that will be cut off when it is finally converted to 16 bit. That gets rid of any anomolies caused by any processing. If you start at 16 bit and do the processing, all the processing noise will occur at a point that will always be part of te audio. ( and with all digital recordings, at a point where it might be possible to hear)
I know this seems very convoluted, but if you started to look under the hood of your tape deck and started to get into the finer points of tape bias, magnetic flux, etc... it would be just as tech-y and weird.
The bottom line is, there is no good reason not to record at 24 bit. It doesn't cost more, it doesn't hurt and it won't sterilize your cat. But, since you already transferred at 16 bit, there isn't much point in redoing the transfers that you have already done. In the future, do it at 24 bit and you don't have to worry about it.
Last edited:
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
...
Are you still talking about dumping files recorded on the 244 to computer?
What 4-track cassette multitracker are you using?
Are you still talking about dumping files recorded on the 244 to computer?
What 4-track cassette multitracker are you using?
Thanks so much for your time Farview. It is all a bit confusing ha. Would there be any reason to re-transfer the tracks using 24 bit? Or would any difference be negligible, and 24 bit would be a "cause you may as well" sorta thing? There's a few that I added a part or two in digital, so they wouldn't really be possible.
This may sound weird, but I don't really master. Once I mixdown all the tracks they are usually fairly level in volume. If there's a quiet track I just save it proportionately if needed. For diy recording I've never seen the point in "mastering". Maybe really naive of me, but there's never been any reason to thus far in my recording adventures. So I probably won't bother saving mixdown to 24 bit and then to 16 bit. Would be an unnecessary middle man for me. I suppose I'll start working in 24 bit pre-mixdown. Thanks Farview!
Using a 234. I initially had the same questions as the original poster and didn't want to start a new thread. Thread was abandoned, and the bit depth question was just an add-on. Don't think I got in anyone's way as the op was done with this thread. I transferred about half the tracks before I realized I had this question. The default in Cubase is 16 bit.
This may sound weird, but I don't really master. Once I mixdown all the tracks they are usually fairly level in volume. If there's a quiet track I just save it proportionately if needed. For diy recording I've never seen the point in "mastering". Maybe really naive of me, but there's never been any reason to thus far in my recording adventures. So I probably won't bother saving mixdown to 24 bit and then to 16 bit. Would be an unnecessary middle man for me. I suppose I'll start working in 24 bit pre-mixdown. Thanks Farview!
Are you still talking about dumping files recorded on the 244 to computer?
What 4-track cassette multitracker are you using?
Using a 234. I initially had the same questions as the original poster and didn't want to start a new thread. Thread was abandoned, and the bit depth question was just an add-on. Don't think I got in anyone's way as the op was done with this thread. I transferred about half the tracks before I realized I had this question. The default in Cubase is 16 bit.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
...
The noise floor of 16-bit digital will be well below the 54dB S/N ratio of the 234 without dbx.
The noise floor of 16-bit digital will be well below the 54dB S/N ratio of the 234 without dbx.
The noise floor of 16-bit digital will be well below the 54dB S/N ratio of the 234 without dbx.
Does that mean there are no inherent advantages of 24 bit over 16 for what I am doing? Is anything lost sound quality wise? That's all I really care about. I can't imagine any audible hiss over the tape hiss. But I still want to do what's best for the sounds coming from the tape. I know I must seem like a lost child playing in the forest to some of you ha.
Farview
Well-known member
In your case, transferring in 24 bit is a "cause you might as well" thing. There is no reason to re-transfer anything you have already done.
If you won't be doing any mastering or post processing, then go ahead and mix down to 16 bit.
24 bit files will sound better than 16 bit, under certain circumstances, when creating mp3 files. But that really depends on the dynamics of the music and the mp3 encoder you are using, so it's hit and miss.
If you won't be doing any mastering or post processing, then go ahead and mix down to 16 bit.
24 bit files will sound better than 16 bit, under certain circumstances, when creating mp3 files. But that really depends on the dynamics of the music and the mp3 encoder you are using, so it's hit and miss.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Are you dubbing mixes to the computer as a stereo track, or are you dubbing 4 discrete tracks to the DAW?
If you're mixing, are you using the 234's onboard stereo mixer or an external mixer?
Just curious.
Thanks
4 discrete tracks. Thought about using some sort of mixing board for analog sound, but I do very little processing so I don't think it would make a difference, and I can take advantage of digital convenience. Doesn't sound like it will make any difference whatsoever whether 16 or 24 bit. But just cause I may as well, I well save the rest in 24 and leave the 16 bit.
Thanks Farview and friends. Feel free to state any considerate opinions for what I am doing if anyone feels so inclined. THanks!
Farview
Well-known member
I think you got it now. Good luck.