Not necessarily. There are some pretty darn good flat headphones these days, and will beat mixing in an untreated room with many problems hands down. My room is actually treated pretty well, and I still mix on phones at night, and when I cue up in the monitors the next morning it isn't too far off. Whichever way you choose, good luck to you!
Struggling with getting good mixes :(
- Thread starter themdla
- Start date
Not necessarily. There are some pretty darn good flat headphones these days, and will beat mixing in an untreated room with many problems hands down. My room is actually treated pretty well, and I still mix on phones at night, and when I cue up in the monitors the next morning it isn't too far off. Whichever way you choose, good luck to you!
themdla
New member
themdla
New member
ok glen thanks i will def have to buy an eq
can the same of similar effect be achived with plug in parametric eq's? (like the article about parametric sweep on your site)
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
If you're talking about the ear practice bit, yeah, there's nothing wrong with using a plug for that. I only recommended the iron because it sounded like you may have already had one. My mistake.
If you use a parametric for the practice though, be careful to sweep to a new center frequency and hold it there for a while as if you were switching to a new graphic EQ band, Just sweeping through frequencies, while good for that sweep method of finding "honkers", isn't always the best way to hear the nature of the frequency itself.
G.
themdla
New member
Well I apologize if I read you wrong but to be honest the first thing you mentioned, despite having never heard my mixes, was that I just need to pay for a service and that everything would be ok.
However given the details of my situation and the resulting mixes I can tell you for a fact that these mixes are off. Not as bad as some mixes I’ve heard but off.
having recorded as a musician in decent sized studios for years, having friends tour and record in studios, and having worked with legitimate full time audio engineers (from enterprise/Henson studios among others) I know that tracks can sound great without being mastered. Maybe not without the right gear and techniques but mastering isn't going to fix a bad mix.
I don't assume that I will master my own material as I don't have the equipment or skill set to do so, however, that doesn't really apply to songs I’m recording with DI GTR/Bass and EZDrummer samples. These mixes are intended to be decent enough to get my scratch ideas across in a way that doesn't sound totally shitty.
The engineers you describe in major studios prolly are so familiar with mixing and recording on those monitors that they know exactly how to mix with whatever inherent deficiencies those monitors of choice have.
prolly because they already passed the stage of "learning" the monitors. However these guys are working in a completely different environment than me.
Treated/equalized rooms, full mixing desk, outboard gear, real mics and pre's, RTA/spectroscope, Protools HD (w/latency comp), expensive monitors, etc...
I’m in my bedroom with an 002 and a DI.... don't think mastering is the real problem here
gcapel
boom box recordings
Im sure in the "real studio" it is hooked up to the gills with great acoustics, and great monitors.
themdla
New member
+1 yup yup
R
RAMI
Guest
Yes, you are suggesting that, and it's absurd. This IS a mixing problem, starting with his mixing environment. Even talking about mastering at this point is absolutely ludicrous.
Personally, I think you have a personal stake of some kind in that mastering company you keep shilling for.
themdla
New member
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Only when the mix engineer or producer is incompetent. If a mix comes out of mixing untranslatable to the outside world, it's a lousy mix that should not yet be considered ready for mastering.
G.
Hi all, I was going to post a new thread about these issues, anyway, I have the same Rockit5 with Tascam FW1884... I'm quite happy myself with my mixed except when I listen them on home/car stereo the bass sound are more than I expected to soundlike, to solves these problems, I came up with these three options to use them in mixing and mastering use: (a) buy a decent home stereo amplifier system with using sm pro nano patch (b) use a preamps for monitoring eg. equlizer,reverb..etc (c) add a subwoofer Would my timid ideas helps? Please share if have others in mind.
I am a hobbyist( becoming semi-pro maybe) who is not in need of paying others for mixing or mastering with my music ( except sharing ideas,experience of course..), cos I want to learn from my experience and enjoyment of music. Where would I be without homerecording forums, it's always been my best partner when it come to solving problems. Have fun with your music.Thanks
I am a hobbyist( becoming semi-pro maybe) who is not in need of paying others for mixing or mastering with my music ( except sharing ideas,experience of course..), cos I want to learn from my experience and enjoyment of music. Where would I be without homerecording forums, it's always been my best partner when it come to solving problems. Have fun with your music.Thanks
Last edited:
themdla
New member
Update
So I’ve tried a few things since the beginning of this thread....
I bought a JBL MSC1 to attempt to do some type of automated room correction and for the life of me couldn't get it to work properly. In JBL's defense I think the one I had received was defective, but either way the software was clunky. Also this product doesn't recognize a Digi 002 as an audio device no matter what work arounds I tried. I ended up returning the device and shopping for headphones instead.
So then I put several headphones under $200 to the test including, beyerdynamic dt 770, sennheiser hd 380 pro, akg k240, and the audio technica ath-m50.
I ended up buying the sennheiser hd 380 pro, feeling that they represented the most clear and balanced sound with the widest range and best isolation. The beyerdynamics were a close second with balance and clarity but the isolation and range were missing. The AKG's were all hyped mids and had almost no isolation. The audio technica's were cool offering similar isolation and range to the 380's but seemed to have hyped mids and harsh highs by comparison.
One of the main things I noticed about the 380's is that I can hear all sorts of things I’ve never heard clearly before in mixes listening through conventional speakers and cheap headphones. The difference in clarity is astounding, and it seems the mids and highs are clearer without harshness I noticed in the other headphones (Beyer excluded).
After the last few days of listening to also sorts of different music through them I started to notice a lot of depth/reverb/spatial effects in mixes I had never really heard before. I can hear editing mistakes, pick scratches, and almost the character of the "room" the instrument was recorded in. my understanding of mixing has completely changed.
when I listened to my mixes I started noticing that I was pushing the tracks to hard and had almost everything kinda cranked (almost to the point of output clipping pre master fader). After hearing the "distance" certain instruments had in a professional mix restarted my mix from scratch. I began pulling up the drums at a much lower level than before and mixed the drums (which are samples) to sound further away. More like I was in a big room or hall with them. This is a sharp contrast to trying to get the drums to sound as loud and punchy as possible (my previous mixing goal). Once these newly lower volume drum tracks were rough mixed I began adding in bass which I compressed and eq'd a bit. I used glen's parametric eq sweeping technique to find a frequency where the bass would ring somewhat excessively and I cut there about 5db and widened the Q from 8-10 to about 5-7. Additionally I boosted the 80-300 Hz range to get a bit more low-end. after all this I was surprised at how much the bass stood out in the mix (because it always seemed to be fighting for space before and now it seems clear and easy to hear). Now I had too much bass and was surprised at how much I could turn it down and have it still be clearly audible. Adding guitars back into the equation was a similar affair.
All in all I feel like I’m making progress with my critical listening and mixing. Now I’m starting to think my biggest mistake was mixing too loud and that my resulting mixes lacked depth, dimension, and clarity primarily because of that.
One other question I have for the "gallery" is.... do you mix with master buss compression and if so how?
So I’ve tried a few things since the beginning of this thread....
I bought a JBL MSC1 to attempt to do some type of automated room correction and for the life of me couldn't get it to work properly. In JBL's defense I think the one I had received was defective, but either way the software was clunky. Also this product doesn't recognize a Digi 002 as an audio device no matter what work arounds I tried. I ended up returning the device and shopping for headphones instead.
So then I put several headphones under $200 to the test including, beyerdynamic dt 770, sennheiser hd 380 pro, akg k240, and the audio technica ath-m50.
I ended up buying the sennheiser hd 380 pro, feeling that they represented the most clear and balanced sound with the widest range and best isolation. The beyerdynamics were a close second with balance and clarity but the isolation and range were missing. The AKG's were all hyped mids and had almost no isolation. The audio technica's were cool offering similar isolation and range to the 380's but seemed to have hyped mids and harsh highs by comparison.
One of the main things I noticed about the 380's is that I can hear all sorts of things I’ve never heard clearly before in mixes listening through conventional speakers and cheap headphones. The difference in clarity is astounding, and it seems the mids and highs are clearer without harshness I noticed in the other headphones (Beyer excluded).
After the last few days of listening to also sorts of different music through them I started to notice a lot of depth/reverb/spatial effects in mixes I had never really heard before. I can hear editing mistakes, pick scratches, and almost the character of the "room" the instrument was recorded in. my understanding of mixing has completely changed.
when I listened to my mixes I started noticing that I was pushing the tracks to hard and had almost everything kinda cranked (almost to the point of output clipping pre master fader). After hearing the "distance" certain instruments had in a professional mix restarted my mix from scratch. I began pulling up the drums at a much lower level than before and mixed the drums (which are samples) to sound further away. More like I was in a big room or hall with them. This is a sharp contrast to trying to get the drums to sound as loud and punchy as possible (my previous mixing goal). Once these newly lower volume drum tracks were rough mixed I began adding in bass which I compressed and eq'd a bit. I used glen's parametric eq sweeping technique to find a frequency where the bass would ring somewhat excessively and I cut there about 5db and widened the Q from 8-10 to about 5-7. Additionally I boosted the 80-300 Hz range to get a bit more low-end. after all this I was surprised at how much the bass stood out in the mix (because it always seemed to be fighting for space before and now it seems clear and easy to hear). Now I had too much bass and was surprised at how much I could turn it down and have it still be clearly audible. Adding guitars back into the equation was a similar affair.
All in all I feel like I’m making progress with my critical listening and mixing. Now I’m starting to think my biggest mistake was mixing too loud and that my resulting mixes lacked depth, dimension, and clarity primarily because of that.
One other question I have for the "gallery" is.... do you mix with master buss compression and if so how?
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
It's encouraging that you feel you're making progress. Threads like this where we can see your journey are really helpful.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
This is a matter of personal mixing style; good mixes can be done successfully with or without it, depending upon how the individual engineer is used to doing it.
For me personally, I never throw anything on the master buss while mixing - I don't even play with the master buss gain, let alone add any buss processing. I prefer to hear the mix for itself and mix it on its own merits, and worry about what is done to the mixdown after the mix is done. But not everybody does it like that.
G.
themdla
New member
i'm not entirely sure what my style is yet, considering my results so far i'm willing to try anything 
i have read a few articles over the years that said andy wallace and other engineers believe that it's easier to get tracks to "sit" well in mixes quickly with compression on the master buss. as well a friend on mine who is a successful engineer always uses outboard buss compression and convinced me to buy an outboard 2-channel compressor.
everytime i've tried to use it though i am constantly adjusting it not really knowing exactly what i'm trying to achieve with it. i assume based on my limited knowledge of compression that i'm trying to reduce the dynamics of the overall mix in order to push the loudness, in something that seems to me akin to mastering.
however i don't think this is proper usage and i guess my main question is....
when using buss compression during mixing what are good starting settings/effects to look for traditionally?
(obviously this will differ based on the content and its initial recording levels, however i'm assuming ideal -18dbFS signals across the board).
i have read a few articles over the years that said andy wallace and other engineers believe that it's easier to get tracks to "sit" well in mixes quickly with compression on the master buss. as well a friend on mine who is a successful engineer always uses outboard buss compression and convinced me to buy an outboard 2-channel compressor.
everytime i've tried to use it though i am constantly adjusting it not really knowing exactly what i'm trying to achieve with it. i assume based on my limited knowledge of compression that i'm trying to reduce the dynamics of the overall mix in order to push the loudness, in something that seems to me akin to mastering.
however i don't think this is proper usage and i guess my main question is....
when using buss compression during mixing what are good starting settings/effects to look for traditionally?
(obviously this will differ based on the content and its initial recording levels, however i'm assuming ideal -18dbFS signals across the board).
themdla
New member
inline with what glen said eariler in this thread and other material i have read since i think that i will definitely have to treat my room.
and even though eq can correct for some anomalies it is only a band-aid solution that would work in a finite/small corrected "zone".
plus i'm headphones have already taught me so much
and even though eq can correct for some anomalies it is only a band-aid solution that would work in a finite/small corrected "zone".
plus i'm headphones have already taught me so much
noisewreck
New member
BTW, just wanted to add that you can create great mixes with softsynths, softsamplers, and sampled drums. If you couldn't, then well, none of the current electronica would be possible
noisewreck
New member
Yeah, I'd take really awesome headphones over crappy room acoustics any timeinline with what glen said eariler in this thread and other material i have read since i think that i will definitely have to treat my room.
and even though eq can correct for some anomalies it is only a band-aid solution that would work in a finite/small corrected "zone".
plus i'm headphones have already taught me so much