SDC's - the other guys

OneRoomStudios

OneRoomStudios

New member
After reading a lot about SDC's on these boards, one would beleive that the following options are pretty much it when looking to purchase/upgrade a SDC:

Berri ECM8000
MXL 603
SP C4
Shure SM81
Shure KSM series

then up into the stratosphere....neumann, shoeps, dpa, earthworks...etc

I'm surprised with all the talk of other players in the LDC game that no one really brought up the other SDC's out there now (or if they did, I missed it). ADK has three SDC's - SC-1, SC-2, and SC-T. SE also has three, SE-1A, SE-2A, and SE-3. AudioTechnica has the 3031 and the 4041, 4051 and others. JoeMeek has the JM27. Thomann has a bunch too.

How come no one ever talks about these mics? Do they suck? Has no one tried them? The ADK ones especially seem like a good deal. Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to see more options discussed. Not that 603s and C4s are bad, but it be nice to hear about some other contenders.
 
OneRoomStudios said:
Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to see more options discussed. Not that 603s and C4s are bad, but it be nice to hear about some other contenders.
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Okay. What do you want to talk about? :D
 
I think part of the problem is that some of the mics you just mentioned -- namely the Joemeek, SE, and ADK -- are made in the same factory by the same people off the same assembly line. And yet another one -- the 603 -- used to be made on that same assembly line, etc, until they moved it.

So basically, there really aren't as many SDC's out there to talk about as you might think there are. Just different labels/logos and model numbers.

The AT's probably don't get talked about as often because they're more of a tweener -- a little pricey for the typical broke home recordist, yet not boutique enough for the gear elitists.
 
SD mics are about 1/2 the price (or less) of their LD cousins. This is true at all price points. Folks usually get pairs of SDs. So, for the same price as a (more or less) equivalent quality LD, you get a pair of SDs. This makes SDs quite reasonably priced, I guess.

I've observed that there's basically three quality ranges in SD mics - budget, mid-level and high end. Most of the discussions on this board deal with the budget SDs, and there are plenty of them. Virtually all are of Chinese manufacture, except the Russian Oktavas. There's much debate on the differences between, for example, the Studio Projects C4 and the Rode NT-5, or the MXL 603s, etc. Differences exist. On the other hand, there are many mics in the budget category which are of the same manufacture and are simply rebranded/repackaged. An interesting newcomer in the budget area is the ADK SC-T, which I haven't heard. It comes with card and omni caps. It will be interesting to see how this mic compares with the SP C4.

Mid-level SDs (to my mind, those between $300 and $1,000 each), are certainly a step up in overall performance. These include the Shure SM81, AT 4051, Josephson C42, the T.H.E. modular system, Neumann KM184 and Microtech Gefell M300, among others. An interesting newsomer in the mid-level group in the new Peluso SD (can't remember the model designation). Some ears that I trust (Dan Richards and Henry Robinette) say they're quite good, regardless of their low $700/pair price.

High end is high end (over $1,000 each). The Schoeps Collette series, Neumanns 100 series, Josephson 6 series, DPA, Microtech Gefell M29x series, are all considered the cream of the SD crop. These mics are simply stunning. When discussions of these mics occur, you never hear "this one is better than that one". Instead, you might hear "this one works better for me and this application than that one, but that one works better for me on this other application."
 
dont forget the audix scx-one mics... i love my pair... dot likes them as well and has compared them to the josephsons... and his thoughts certainly carry more weight than mine when it comes to quality audio gear.
 
there goes Chessrock again...

Chessrock said: "I think part of the problem is that some of the mics you just mentioned -- namely the Joemeek, SE, and ADK -- are made in the same factory by the same people off the same assembly line. And yet another one -- the 603 -- used to be made on that same assembly line, etc, until they moved it."

"same factory"-wrong...same country, different factories with different levels of quality control and component sources...

"same people"-same nationality (Chinese)...different people of different skill levels...

"used to be made on that same assembly line, etc, until they moved it."-actually, pretty much applies to ALL the companies referred to...

...I think this guy's got pinup pictures of Nady mics secretly stashed under his bed...truly in denial...
 
For cheapies don't forget the Oktava M*012. Lots of opinions on these boards about it.

And CAD GXL1200, Samson CO2, Nady CM95, MXL's new SDC's 991 and 993.

And the Behringer B5 - there's at least one "expert" here who believes it's a C4 clone. :)
 
I've heard SE moved off to its own shop. I haven't heard that Joemeek and ADK followed as far as having their own mic factories.

Anyhow, the original poster, part of what you're experiencing in only seeing certain mics talked about is the "lemming factor." It's also to do with cheap mics. At some point, people sort of get tired at running out and checking on every cheap new Chinese condenser that comes down the pike. I think they want an upgrade. If they're into an MXL 603 then maybe they're looking at a pair of Josephson C42s. So, that puts us back over on the lemming factor. Harvey Gerst and Chessrock say good things about the MXL 603. So, everybody starts buying them. We trust Harvey. We trust Chessrock. They've sold a lot of mics for MXL. MXL should send them checks.

I've tried more than a few Chinese small condensers and I don't think we ended up reviewing more than two -- 603 and C4. There's a reason you'll find reviews of the MXL 603, the Studio Projects C4, the AT3031 (made in Japan), the Oktava MK012 (made in Russia) and the Rode NT5 (supposedly made in Australia) at Mojo Pie. They're very reasonably priced and they don't suck. Of these, I like the Oktava the best.
 
it's just the rhetoric...

It's really just that the rhetorical "Chinese Mic" bashing thing gets old...especially on a website that caters to newbies in the recording realm...last I looked, the website was called "HomeRecording.Com"...wanna bet that 90% of the mics found in home studios had their beginnings on a Chinese assembly line...and quite a few have been used to a creative and successful end product...although I agree that the Oktava's have a certain quality (transformers for one) that elevates them from the average Chinese product, it's the "weeding out the few good Oktavas from the mass of poor quality controlled product" process that leaves me disinterested...I believe the Chinese products, with the careful QC standards/overseeing of companies like MXL, ADK and Joe Meek are now surpassing Oktava in the consistancy of acceptable quality...not everybody has the time to spend in GC auditioning a half dozen Oktavas to hope to go home with a "good one"...how long ago was the Mojo Pie article written...mics have come a long way in the past year or so (the new SE products are very impressive!)...
 
it wasn't bashing... chessrock was simply saying that its almost pointless to compare a lot of the mics out there, because many of them are identical with the only differences being the sticker. whether you agree with this or not, i don't think his intentions were to offend anyone. as stated above, he's driven a lot of business to mxl.
 
kidvybes said:
although I agree that the Oktava's have a certain quality (transformers for one) that elevates them from the average Chinese product, it's the "weeding out the few good Oktavas from the mass of poor quality controlled product" process that leaves me disinterested...
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That's a good point. I forgot to include Oktava's in my original post, but certainly they are also discussed here. My main issue is what kidvybes said - QC. If all MC012's were good, I'd be out buying a pair right now. The only reliable source - The Sound Room, is way too expensive IMHO. $429 for a pair with one cap? I can get C4's with three caps for $100 less and I don't think the Oktava's all that much better (to be fair, I've only heard them once, and they were not from The Sound Room). If they really are worth $100 without the extra caps, please let me know. You can get them with all three caps in a pair...but that will run you $629. If The Sound Room lowered their prices, I think there would be a lot less discussion about the most cost-effective SDC's around here!

Oh, and just so I don't get flamed...I understand why they charge so much...they match them by hand and have to go through the duds to get to the good ones, etc...I just don't think they're priced very competitively right now.
 
Two other less well known SDC's are the Crown CM700 and the EV CS-15. Both are worth a serious listen if you ever run across them at a pawn shop or flea market.
 
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Harvey Gerst said:
Two other less well known SDM's are the Crown CM700 and the EV CS-15. Both are worth a serious listen if you ever run across them at a pawn shop or flea market.
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Almost forgot about the Crowns. Those are really under-rated. Great for drums; can take a ton of SPL, and can fit in tight spaces.

Another sleeper no one ever mentions is the Audio Technica Pro 37.
 
Last time I checked we had someone point out that this is HOMErecording dot com not PROrecording dot com every day or two for as long as the site's been up. Chessrock has some rhetoric/bullshit but at least he calls it how he sees it. Two types of people really interest me on here - the pros who've made a call on what to use, so whether they made the best buy or not you know it can yield good results; and the people like Mojopie Steve and Dan Richards who get to try all the gear out - you can assume they've heard most of the important players and so if you trust their ears you should trust their advice.

My +/-2dB.
 
noisedude said:
Chessrock has some rhetoric/bullshit ...
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Some ? ? ! ! Is that all? Now this hurts. I've worked way too hard at the rhetoric / bullshit thing and deserve a little more credit than that. :D I'd say at least "above average" or "piled high" on even a bad day.
 
Can you use an Omni??

I know in many applications an omni wouldn't work but Harvey put me on the Behringer ECM8000 probably moneywise the lowest of the bottom feeder mikes. Don't laugh at the price or the brand though they are a good mic for almost any price. I put a pair up on Harveys recomendation in front of a choir one time and the organ player hit the first bass pedal hard resulting in me being deaf for about 10 minutes from the headset spl.

My reluctance to try the mic was big looking at the price, brand, and the recomender but I decided I was not out of much so I ordered a pair. Why not trust Harvey even if he can record anything using tin cans and fishing line and make it sound perfect. I've even ab tested them against some mid to high end SDC mics (Gefell, Neuman, and Crown never had a DPA to try though) and still like them almost equally on applications where an omni would do a job here. Even sometimes when I know they are not exactly right I fly them with my main pair on extra tracks for backups and still use them in the mix one way or another. Sometimes that card pattern does not catch something near and under it while the omni does thus they end up in a mix as fill or as main mics even if only for the duration I can mix them in for the sound I'm after. After all recording live is like photographing sports and weddings you only get one shot so burn the media to cover yours.

Someone mentioned the Crown 700 above don't underestimate their lower priced CM200 either it has a low cutoff of 80hz vs 30 for their 700 but its still a good mike. I'd never tried it either but worked a gig where they were the house mic and I borrowed a couple when I ran out of mics in my locker and really liked it. Fact is pro recording has mostly ignored Crown as a whole with no justification but installed sound uses a lot of their gear. I must admit as with all Harmon Companies (Crown, JBL, DBX etc) getting an answer to an e-mail inquiry takes some time if its ever answered.

BTW I only do live remote work here and that can be different from studio work. Thanks again to Harvey for putting me on those bottom feeders Thats one trick I learned years ago from my regular work, listen to the well seasoned guys they are not scared of you the newcomer and are not reluctant to help because of it. I'm still new to recording and real green but who isn't compared to Harvey and a host of others.
 
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