REAPER update to 5.0

That's just mind boggling to me. Mine most often goes like this....

Drums -
8 individual piece tracks
1 drum group

Bass-
1 track

Guitars-
2 rhythm tracks
1 lead
1 or 2 accent/accompaniment tracks sometimes

Vocals-
1 main vocal
1 harmony sometimes
varied backup tracks depending on what I wanna do

So all that might end up being 20-25 tracks or so. I don't think I ever hit the 30 track mark. Maybe sometimes when I add kazoos and tambourines.

I did do one deliberate attempt at a Phil Spector sounding mix one time, and it was like 80 tracks or something. I tracked the drums 5 times and stacked them up. Added a ton of handclaps and layers of guitars and shit. It was ridiculous. It came out good though. :D
 
Texhincally, the folder is the Parent to the tracks in it, and the Master fader is the Parent of all the top level tracks (those not in folders, including any folder tracks). If you leave Master/Parent send on, then the tracks mix into their folders and then those are mixed to the Master. You can turn off that send though and route them anywhere you want which allows you to use folders just for organization.

Be careful with the word Group, though. There are ways to group items (so you can edit them all at once, faders/knobs so they all move together, and other stuff.
 
ashcat_lt said:
Be careful with the word Group, though. There are ways to group items (so you can edit them all at once, faders/knobs so they all move together, and other stuff.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it gets confusing because people will use the word "Group" for pretty much everything, including folders. But I always though "Grouping" was a separate and distinct action/function.
 
Greg_L said:
That's just mind boggling to me. Mine most often goes like this....

Drums -
8 individual piece tracks
1 drum group

Bass-
1 track

Guitars-
2 rhythm tracks
1 lead
1 or 2 accent/accompaniment tracks sometimes

Vocals-
1 main vocal
1 harmony sometimes
varied backup tracks depending on what I wanna do

So all that might end up being 20-25 tracks or so. I don't think I ever hit the 30 track mark. Maybe sometimes when I add kazoos and tambourines.

I did do one deliberate attempt at a Phil Spector sounding mix one time, and it was like 80 tracks or something. I tracked the drums 5 times and stacked them up. Added a ton of handclaps and layers of guitars and shit. It was ridiculous. It came out good though. :D
Click to expand...

Drums - 18 tracks including the folder ( * but some of 'em don't really count):

Slate:
vsti track*
kick
snare
room L *
room R *

Superior:
vsti track*
kick
snare t
snare b
hi-hat
toms
oh
amb *
amb mono *
reverb *

Midi:
Jamstix vsti *
midi * (I record the midi output of the Jamstix track so I can tweak the hits in the piano roll if I want/need, I usually have to do this most of the time too, while Jamstix is a cool drum program, I use it mostly for the "feel" by pushing/pulling the timing with automation)

So in all, there's about 7 - 9 tracks that aren't really tracks, but I gotta have 'em because I use fake drums...The rest of my shit is about like yours:

Guitars:
2 rhythm tracks
1-2 lead tracks

Bass:
1 track (sometimes I'll have 2, one for the high/gritty, & one for the bottom, but 99% of the time it's just 1 track)

Vocals:
2-3 tracks, depends really

Reverb:
4 - I have 4 reverb tracks in my template, but, again, I don't use all these all the time, so usually 2

But yeah, it's a lot of shit dude, once I start the mix, I usually hide the tracks that aren't doing anything...

Have you ever looked at the folder thing yet???
 
Quick question from a Newb...
Upgraded to 5 (64 byte) last week. The one thing that bugs me is that the scroll wheel on my mouse doesn't seem to work in this version for fine tuning fader levels, rotary pots, etc. I looked at the mouse options in the Preferences tab and couldn't see anything related that I could click or un-click to fix this.

Anyone out there have an answer? I can't believe Reaper would remove the capacity to use the mouse scroll wheel to make very small adjustments.
Thanks
Gordon Gibson
Montreal
 
Gordon Gibson said:
Quick question from a Newb...
Upgraded to 5 (64 byte) last week. The one thing that bugs me is that the scroll wheel on my mouse doesn't seem to work in this version for fine tuning fader levels, rotary pots, etc. I looked at the mouse options in the Preferences tab and couldn't see anything related that I could click or un-click to fix this.

Anyone out there have an answer? I can't believe Reaper would remove the capacity to use the mouse scroll wheel to make very small adjustments.
Thanks
Gordon Gibson
Montreal
Click to expand...
 
I don't see much change in v. 5.0. I was excited about the new look initially, until I discovered it is even more difficult to read the markers above the main screen than in the old version. That's a deal-breaker for me. I use those markers to display chord changes for overdubbing. So I'm back to the default v. 4 GUI.

I wish someone would make a separate window to display the markers in large format.
 
minerman said:
Jamstix vsti *
midi * (I record the midi output of the Jamstix track so I can tweak the hits in the piano roll if I want/need, I usually have to do this most of the time too, while Jamstix is a cool drum program, I use it mostly for the "feel" by pushing/pulling the timing with automation).
Click to expand...

I think we talked on the Jamstix forum about a year and a half ago. I'm still using Jamstix but like you, I use it to set up a quick groove and then export the MIDI to Reaper for all the detail editing. I gave up on the Jamstix song builder long, long ago. Potentially the "feel" is one of the more useful features of Jamstix, but there is a problem with its current implementation that Ralph is aware of. When you set the "feel" for a behind-the-beat groove, it will shift all the hits back including whatever is on 1, which effectively moves the entire measure. It's a pain in the ass. So now I just quantize everything and then insert the timing nuances manually, which I've gotten better at doing fortunately. Hopefully the new version will address this problem, when and if it ever comes out.
 
Robus said:
I think we talked on the Jamstix forum about a year and a half ago. I'm still using Jamstix but like you, I use it to set up a quick groove and then export the MIDI to Reaper for all the detail editing. I gave up on the Jamstix song builder long, long ago. Potentially the "feel" is one of the more useful features of Jamstix, but there is a problem with its current implementation that Ralph is aware of. When you set the "feel" for a behind-the-beat groove, it will shift all the hits back including whatever is on 1, which effectively moves the entire measure. It's a pain in the ass. So now I just quantize everything and then insert the timing nuances manually, which I've gotten better at doing fortunately. Hopefully the new version will address this problem, when and if it ever comes out.
Click to expand...
We probably have talked there, my username is pretty much the same on every forum (in that forum you have to have a number on your username, & I have minerman_1)...:thumbs up:. I don't post there very much, but I do check the forum pretty much daily just to see what's going on with other folks...

The way I use Jamstix is I build the song part by part (I never use the song builder either, I'll add a part & set how many bars/repeats one by one), & I use the timing & power knobs (via automation) to control the timing & velocity hits...I'll usually leave the hits in the JS editor at their default (IE: 100 for a snare), except for the hi-hat/ride cymbal, song dependent of course...I usually compose each bar individually so the hi-hats will be a little different (even though there's a variation knob, which I use also) through the song...

For the timing, I'll automate it to be a few milliseconds faster for all the fills, speed up during a chorus/lead break/etc, & let Jamstix control that part of the midi on it's own. I don't feel comfortable enough to move the hits' timing in the Reaper editor for this, although I do have to move single hits here/there to sound "right" (to me anyway)...

When I think the midi is "done enough", I'll record the output (midi) to another track, & edit the midi from there, which is the most time-consuming, but to me it's worth it because it sounds much better (usually what I'll edit are the velocities, part by part)...

While I think it's a great program, there are quite a few quirks I hate about it. One thing is I could never get it to save a custom mapped kit, ever, so I've adapted Superior Drummer's mapping to fit the midi it spits out, instead of vice-versa. This is a pain in the ass, especially with the different articulations for each kit piece (like the hi-hats for example), so I use my own work-around with custom mappings for the vsti(s) that I'm using for the actual sounds...

Another bug/quirk is the fills, even when you have the push/pull thing set in JS' gui (+/- milliseconds for the "feel" knob), the fills don't follow this at all, they're straight on time with the daw, so that's why I use automation for the fills, & I usually set the envelope to match whatever the "feel" knob is, then add a few milliseconds...

On the export thing, I could never get it to work correctly either, that's why I use the "record midi output" on another track. Maybe you could try that & see if it helps the issue you mentioned dude, it'd be worth a shot...

Like I said, there a quite a few bugs/quirks that almost make me stop using it, but the good things about it outweigh those, & I've learned a few little work-arounds that fit what I do with it...And just like Reaper, I know I'm not using Jamstix to even half it's potential, but the results I get from using it combined with my own hand-editing are pretty good IMO...

And to be honest, I'm really not looking to update to version 4, unless there are some major changes to a lot of things that would make me think it'd be worth it for me...

Maybe you should pm me here & we could figure out some more things about Jamstix together??? Like I said, I don't use it to even half it's potential, but maybe with some ideas of your workflow/use, we could learn from each other???

Sorry for the long-ass post & going so far off-topic here guys...
 
That power knob is a nice feature too. Some judicious turning of that knob can simulate crescendos and diminuendos pretty convincingly. Breathes a lot of life into MIDI drum tracks. Small tweaks make a big difference.

I noticed that fill problem too. Actually, fills in general are pretty much a disaster in Jamstix. It's the single greatest weakness of the program. I've suggested to Ralph that he include a library of preset fills. Don't know why they haven't been included already.

What I suspect is that the original idea behind Jamstix was to create a program that could play along live. It just doesn't work well in that role unless you are doing simple tunes. The amount of programming required to set up a song defeats the purpose otherwise. You might as well simply create a MIDI track to play along to. But I think the idea still drives the development of the program. Hence no fill presets, because the assumption is that the program will be generating fills on the fly as you play. But there is another and better way to use Jamstix, which is what you and I and probably a majority of users are actually doing with it. That is as a quick and flexible tool to create grooves, which will then be sent by MIDI into a DAW for further editing. Some well-made fill presets would absolutely help in that setting. Hopefully they will be forthcoming in the next edition. Otherwise I won't be upgrading.

I never bothered with the MIDI export function, or the drag-and-drop which is supposed to be possible. It's simpler just to play back the part and route the output to a Reaper track to be recorded as MIDI data. I've set up a template in Reaper with three tracks: One hosts Jamstix. The second receives and records MIDI playback from Jamstix. The third track is the one I use to edit the MIDI and play it back to Jamstix, using Jamstix as a sound module. I do like the drum sounds in some of Jamstix's kits. I've been using Deep Modern, Standard Mini, Maple, and some of the kits in the Bonzo pack.
 
Robus said:
That power knob is a nice feature too. Some judicious turning of that knob can simulate crescendos and diminuendos pretty convincingly. Breathes a lot of life into MIDI drum tracks. Small tweaks make a big difference.
Click to expand...

While I've honestly never used it for crescendos or anything like that, the power knob does make a big difference. I still end up tweaking the velocity hits (especially the snare) after the fact though, but I'm learning the ratio that the power knob makes (IE: a snare with a velocity of 100 turns into 127 with the power knob turned up) so I can eliminate one more step in my workflow..

Robus said:
I noticed that fill problem too. Actually, fills in general are pretty much a disaster in Jamstix. It's the single greatest weakness of the program. I've suggested to Ralph that he include a library of preset fills. Don't know why they haven't been included already.
Click to expand...

Yes, some of the fills it generates are good, they're simple like they should be, but it's a hair-pulling event sometimes getting 'em that way...I agree a fill library/list would help, a lot...

Robus said:
What I suspect is that the original idea behind Jamstix was to create a program that could play along live. It just doesn't work well in that role unless you are doing simple tunes. The amount of programming required to set up a song defeats the purpose otherwise. You might as well simply create a MIDI track to play along to. But I think the idea still drives the development of the program. Hence no fill presets, because the assumption is that the program will be generating fills on the fly as you play. But there is another and better way to use Jamstix, which is what you and I and probably a majority of users are actually doing with it. That is as a quick and flexible tool to create grooves, which will then be sent by MIDI into a DAW for further editing. Some well-made fill presets would absolutely help in that setting. Hopefully they will be forthcoming in the next edition. Otherwise I won't be upgrading.
Click to expand...

Like I said, if the upgrade proves to be a big step up from the version I'm using now (3.6 IIRC), I may upgrade, but if the things I've mentioned aren't changed/fixed/improved, I probably won't bother...I will say Ralph is a class act though, & he jumps through hoops to make his customers happy, I know that from first-hand experience with him...I bought the Metal Pak, simply for the drummers, & he included a couple of the kits/sounds for nothing....Great guy..

Robus said:
I never bothered with the MIDI export function, or the drag-and-drop which is supposed to be possible. It's simpler just to play back the part and route the output to a Reaper track to be recorded as MIDI data.
Click to expand...

I tried it before it was taken away (can't remember the version), but it never worked like it was supposed to, so I started recording the midi output on another track ( a couple/few people in the Reaper forum suggested this, & it works pretty good IMO)...

Robus said:
I've set up a template in Reaper with three tracks: One hosts Jamstix. The second receives and records MIDI playback from Jamstix. The third track is the one I use to edit the MIDI and play it back to Jamstix, using Jamstix as a sound module. I do like the drum sounds in some of Jamstix's kits. I've been using Deep Modern, Standard Mini, Maple, and some of the kits in the Bonzo pack.
Click to expand...
I'm not following you here with 3 tracks, I understand the first 2 (Jamstix "programming" track, & recorded midi track), but the 3rd confuses me (which isn't hard to do....:D)...You're using 2 instances of Jamstix here??? My 3rd track is Superior..

On the Jamstix sounds, I've tried quite a few times to get along with 'em, but just never could. Maybe I'm used to the "other" drum samplers' sounds so much I'm biased??? Dunno...Any hints/tips/suggestions are welcome on this dude...
 
Gordon Gibson said:
Tried that.....with no result. Perhaps I have to shut Reaper down and start it back up with this box unchecked?
Gordon
Click to expand...
When you check/uncheck a box in preferences, you have to hit "Apply" for it to take effect, other than that I have no idea....Maybe try the Reaper forum for help...
 
ashcat_lt said:
Be careful with the word Group, though. There are ways to group items (so you can edit them all at once, faders/knobs so they all move together, and other stuff.
Click to expand...

That's why I often refer to submix groups and control groups, even on analog boards. Many boards have submix groups, but when you add VCAs you have two different ways of grouping.
 
minerman said:
I'm not following you here with 3 tracks, I understand the first 2 (Jamstix "programming" track, & recorded midi track), but the 3rd confuses me (which isn't hard to do....:D)...You're using 2 instances of Jamstix here??? My 3rd track is Superior..

On the Jamstix sounds, I've tried quite a few times to get along with 'em, but just never could. Maybe I'm used to the "other" drum samplers' sounds so much I'm biased??? Dunno...Any hints/tips/suggestions are welcome on this dude...
Click to expand...

No, just one instance of Jamstix is running.

Track 1: Jamstix host with MIDI routed to Track 2. This is also the audio track for the drums.
Track 2: Used to record MIDI from Jamstix on Track 1.
Track 3: MIDI routed back to Jamstix on Track 1.

I record the MIDI to Track 2 then drag it manually over to Track 3 for editing and playback to Jamstix on Track 1. I could do all this on Track 2, but it's nice to have a third track for editing and playing back MIDI data. Sometimes I'll want to bring in additional sounds from Jamstix. A third track allows me to do this without overdubbing directly into the previously recorded MIDI data.

At some point, I might split the audio output of the various drum sounds to separate audio tracks for individual processing. I haven't found the need yet. So far I've been using the native Jamstix mixer to balance levels.

For me, the most useful Jamstix kit is the Standard Mini. I like to use a simple, stripped down kit for a lot of my music: kick, snare, hats, ride, crash, and maybe a couple of toms. The Jamstix mini kit sounds pretty natural to my ears. If I need more options or a deeper kick, I like the Deep Modern. You can hear that kit on the track I posted recently in the MP3 clinic.
 
Robus said:
No, just one instance of Jamstix is running.

Track 1: Jamstix host with MIDI routed to Track 2. This is also the audio track for the drums.
Track 2: Used to record MIDI from Jamstix on Track 1.
Track 3: MIDI routed back to Jamstix on Track 1.

I record the MIDI to Track 2 then drag it manually over to Track 3 for editing and playback to Jamstix on Track 1. I could do all this on Track 2, but it's nice to have a third track for editing and playing back MIDI data. Sometimes I'll want to bring in additional sounds from Jamstix. A third track allows me to do this without overdubbing directly into the previously recorded MIDI data.
Click to expand...
Well, our workflow/template really isn't much different from each other's as I thought as far as the 2-3 tracks we've mentioned...Myself, I like to have all the midi on one track, including percussion (which I have recently been messing with btw, tambourine, shakers, etc), but that's just my preference because it just makes more sense having all the hits in one central place, it's just simpler/easier for me...

Robus said:
At some point, I might split the audio output of the various drum sounds to separate audio tracks for individual processing. I haven't found the need yet. So far I've been using the native Jamstix mixer to balance levels.
Click to expand...

I always send my individual pieces to their own tracks, even during the programming. I know it's probably overkill, but to me it's kinda like mixing into a limiter, you kinda hear what it's gonna sound like as you go I suppose...I know all the different drum vsti's have their own compression/eq/whatever, but I've got a few favorite plug-ins I like to use for this, but again, personal preference...

Robus said:
For me, the most useful Jamstix kit is the Standard Mini. I like to use a simple, stripped down kit for a lot of my music: kick, snare, hats, ride, crash, and maybe a couple of toms. The Jamstix mini kit sounds pretty natural to my ears. If I need more options or a deeper kick, I like the Deep Modern. You can hear that kit on the track I posted recently in the MP3 clinic.
Click to expand...
Like I mentioned, I've tried the Jamstix kits a few times, but I just could never gel with them. I use a Superior/Slate mixed template with kit pieces from a few different expansions that seems to keep expanding as I go, but I think it sounds pretty decent....
 
Minerman

Thank you. I must have forgotten to click Apply - it works just fine. Now if I could only get the scroll wheel working with Ambiance that would be great (seeks to work on most if not all the other plug-ins).

A workflow question to the group if I may. I have figured out how to save templates for recording purposes - one click brings back the labeled tracks, colors, routing assignments, etc. that I need to record my band - saves a good 15 minutes of setup each time.

Now what I would like to find is how to get a template for mixing setups (EQ, plug-ins, panning, levels, etc.). I use my tracking template to record a practice session. Then when it comes time to mix, I open the file for the session, and it comes back with the tracking template. But each time I basically restart the mix from scratch. And since I am recording the same instrumentation in the same physical space, it would be great to be able to recall a mixing template to not have to go over the tedium of EQing and adding compression to each track - much of which is fairly similar session to session. This would also allow me to continuously refine my basic mix rather than having to start over each time.

Sure there is a very easy way to do this that I could probably find if I wanted to wade through the 400-page users manual but.....

Anyone know the way to do this?

Much thanks in advance from an old analogue guy (Neve, Studer)
 
Wouldn't you just create a project, put all of your FX'es where you want them, then->Project Templates->Save Project as Template?
 
Gordon Gibson asks an excellent question. I think what he means is this: Once he has tracked the parts, is there a way to open the song in a new template that is optimized for mixing? I don't know. As far as I'm aware, when you open a new template, you are starting a new project. Wouldn't it be nifty to be able to change to a new template in your existing project?

I haven't used a separate template for mixing so far. I do for mastering. I render the song as a stereo .wav file, load up the mastering template, then import the .wav file into that.
 
Gordon Gibson said:
Minerman

Thank you. I must have forgotten to click Apply - it works just fine. Now if I could only get the scroll wheel working with Ambiance that would be great (seeks to work on most if not all the other plug-ins).

A workflow question to the group if I may. I have figured out how to save templates for recording purposes - one click brings back the labeled tracks, colors, routing assignments, etc. that I need to record my band - saves a good 15 minutes of setup each time.

Now what I would like to find is how to get a template for mixing setups (EQ, plug-ins, panning, levels, etc.). I use my tracking template to record a practice session. Then when it comes time to mix, I open the file for the session, and it comes back with the tracking template. But each time I basically restart the mix from scratch. And since I am recording the same instrumentation in the same physical space, it would be great to be able to recall a mixing template to not have to go over the tedium of EQing and adding compression to each track - much of which is fairly similar session to session. This would also allow me to continuously refine my basic mix rather than having to start over each time.

Sure there is a very easy way to do this that I could probably find if I wanted to wade through the 400-page users manual but.....

Anyone know the way to do this?

Much thanks in advance from an old analogue guy (Neve, Studer)
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you can't just use the same template. You've spent some time creating a tracking template. Spend a little more time, and add in various sends, effects and so on, then save the whole lot. The fx don't need to come into play while tracking, but just while playing back.
 
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