Producers

[SouthSIDE Glen]

My guitarist has changed his title for "guitarist" to "producer". "I makes riffs, therefore I produce!", he proclaimed. Then the bassist followed suit, he is now a "producer" too. Not to be left out, the keyboard player and drummer and prodcuer followed suit. I now had a 5-piece band in front of me consisting of 5 producers. Then the pizza deliver guy showed up with lunch. He buzzed the studio entrance, and when I asked how it was over the intercom, he - figuring that since he was producing lunch for us - replied, "The producer!"

I started getting a bad headache, so I passed the session off to the AE - who, since he figured he had produced some mic cables and coffee, and now was going to be producing some tracking tapes, was now calling himself "producer" instead of "assistant engineer" - and went home. As soon as I get home my wife, who I now call my "producer", since she prodcued a child out of her body (but for some reason won't let me call myself a "producer" for producing the sperm that made half of that baby), asked me if I could change the diaper on our producer since he had produced quite the smelly load out of his 18-month-old bottom.

Shall I go on - oops, I mean - shall I keep producing?

G.

 

[cusebassman]

Disclaimer: I'm gonna say a bunch of what's been said, but you asked for opinions and by-joe you're gonna get 'em!

To me, a producer (in the music sense) is a person a band or label hires to control and oversee the development and completion of a record. A good producer will steer the recording/mixing process in a direction that best fits the band's/label's vision. The producer, along with the Recording Engineer, take care of everything else a band would have to worry about in order to procure the best translation of the band's talents to CD form.

That's my thought, anyway.

I agree with this guy, 'cus he's right

Any other person who is called or calls themselves a "Producer" (word up yo), deserves a swift kick in the ass, because its a bunch o' bullshit.

If you want to go by "rapper", that's fine - the whole bunch of you can sit on the side of the forum (and whatever room I might be in) for all I care, just keep the lingo to yourselves

 

[legionserial]

Puff Daddy and Dr Dre may be great producers, but they've got someone behind the curtains running the gear for them.

I'm not sure about Puff Daddy, but Dr. Dre actually really does know his shit. He has some kind of music tech qualifications of some sort. I'm not a great fan so I don't know too much, but I do know that he is pretty good on the technical sde.

This is why NWA make me laugh when they talk about the ghetto and being strapped for cash. All of them are middle class guys with college degrees in stuff from engineering to business to marketing. That's how they did so well. Because they are all trained to know what they are doing.

But I agree,the same can't be said for a lot of hip hop 'producers'.

What is an appropriate title for the person who records a band, mixes the tracks, and burns the CD? I agree that "producer" implies many things that may not be true of the person that does these things. But if you make such a CD and want to take credit for it, what's the best way to describe your role?

An interesting example is Steve Albini. He could be described as a produucer, but he dislikes being referred to as that. Most of the albums he's worked on usually at his insistance credit him as "recorded by" rather than "produced by".

 

[chazba]

It comes down to " Why does anybody want to give the impression that they are something other than who (what) they are"? The lower a person's self esteem, the more likely they are to try to bullshit you into thinking that they are "somebody" People with low self esteem are only gonna waste your time and money. It's a lot easier to award yourself the title of "producer" than it is to spend thousands of hours in studios polishing your skills and ears while getting the best performances out of clueless ego-maniacs. I hope that anybody over age 30 will be able to spot a poser in a heartbeat.Here is a little tip for you band guys out there. If somebody sez that they want to "produce" your CD, go out to dinner with them and the whole band. If they guy picks up the tab without hesitation he (she) MAY be on the level. If they don't, they are a fraud.
That was easy, wasn't it. Here's another tip. If they say "perdoosah" put your hand over your wallet and leave the scene immediately. This rule applies in all locations and all genres.
If I sound like a guy with an attitude maybe it's cause I've been burned in the past.




chazba

 

[Agent47]

I do a few production jobs a year in my home studio, and they generally always go like this:

My songwriter client emails me a chord progression, and if I'm lucky, a melody line and a hint at the style he wants. I then create a backing track using my synths and a few samples, drum loops etc, writing bass lines, little motifs, chord pads, extra bells/whistles. I'll email him mp3s as the work progresses, and he'll usually pop along for a couple of days to sit-in and make changes. I then stick the backing track and melody guide onto a CD-ROM, and go along to the 'pro' vocal recording studio with my client and the singer. There, I direct the singer, encourage her, push her, make her do as many takes as I see fit, make her do backing vocals (against the will of my client) and generally make sure I've got enough material. I then go home, load in the vocal, mix it over a couple of days and give it to my client - who in the end realises it was a good idea to record the backings after all...

When I'm doing jobs like these, I call myself a producer. Is that right?

 

[MCI2424]

".....
That's even more aggregious than a kid with PTLE and a Waves crack calling themselves a "mastering engineer"........"

G.

Now, Now Glen, let's not show our professional jealousy, OK?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

When I'm doing jobs like these, I call myself a producer. Is that right?

That's not bad.

I think the gist of the thread, though, is the trend in some independent circles to apply the term "producer" to anybody who creates a 2-bar rhythm track or synth sequence. That's where the abuse of title comes in.

G.

 

[RezN8]

When somebody tells me they are a producer, I ask for clarification. "Do you mean "producer" or "pruhdoosah"? It's really starting to get on my nerves a bit, actually.

I've dedicated most of time and energy and thoughts, (not to mention every last dime I've scraped together) honing my skills, knowledge and abilities as a musician.

It may seem foolish to many people, but I'm proud to be a "musician".

I play several instruments well. I can fake it on a few others too, but I don't tell people I can play something if I can't. I can whip up some incredible stuff with a keyboard too, but I don't consider myself a "keyboardist".

I've got my own lil' studio now, and although I record other musicians/bands, etc. I don't claim to be a "producer".

To me that's like handing someone a band-aid and calling myself a doctor.

I only wish people would start actually learning how to play real instruments again. AND learn to play with others, instead of just machines.

What was that great line from FAME:

"That's not making music Martelli, playing with yourself is called masterbation!"

 

[Big Jinx]

I call myself a producer because of:

1. I do my own beat production
2. I perform all recording, EQ, and mixing
3. I push all my mcees to their full potential rather than putting bullshit on a track.
4. I publish all my music via web, cd, word of mouth, etc. to ensure that not only I, but my artists, get promotion they deserve
5. I book shows for all my artists whenever and however possible at local venues
6. I publicly announce that I do not master any work that leaves my studio. Pisses people off at first, but then they soon realize that the difference between a loud track and a mastered track saved them from being mad as hell about a finished product from THE BATTING CAGE.
7. I can play the guitar and piano.....Just threw that in there to save myself from RezN8, lol....

That's all I got..I'm probably gonna get bashed for my thought process of a producer, but f**k it..I is what I is...Jinx out-

 

[legionserial]

I don't like the word producer anymore.

I'm a musician. When someone asks me who produces my music, I say 'no one does, but I do everything from writing to burning the CD'. they say 'so you produce it then' I ask them what a producer is exactly. They say something to the tone of 'some guy who sits at a desk with flashy lights in recording studio'. They are using words they don't know the meaning of. That's just dumb to me.

Funny story though. Someone saw my Tascam US-2400 flashing away while I was mixing one day, and week later he's calling me saying 'I know this guy needs someone to produce a hip hop record for him. I figure seeing as you have that huge mixing board and know how it works, you may be able to do it'. I was like well I'm just hack but I'll have a go. So this dude comes over. He's a rapper. Pretty damn good rapper actually, and a nice guy. I'm not a massive fan of hip hop, I like some...not the commercial stuff... but he was talented, and had some excellent and intellectual messages abut the state of the world, and some really interesting vocal rhythms. So I thought it might be fun. He starts trying to negotiate pay with me. I'm like, what the fuck? No. I don't want paying for this, I'm just an amatuer.

He's like, 'I know producers who have tonnes of equipment and studios, and in the last 5 minutes you have been talking about isolation booths and what mic I want to use, which has shown me you know a hell of a lot more than they do'.

I explained again that I was merely an amateur, and I have no experience of working with vocalists or even anyone else but myself. and that just read lot. I didn't see him again.

Everything came back to me knowing how to use my Tascam and Cubase. I'm just thinking "well yeah I know how to move a fader, and I'm good a figuring software out. How the hell does that make me a producer?".

Yet these guys call themselves producers and they know less than me, and like I say, I'm an amateur.

Seems like an image thing to me in a lot of cases. A label they can give themselves so that those not in the know go "wow coooooool!". Which is what everyone says when they see my Tascam sitting there. It's getting a little stale. I'm gonna stick a throw over it.

I'm going to stick with the title "amateur recordist". I prefer that to "producer". If I ever record an album for someone, that's what I want to be credited as - "Amateur recordist".

 

[Agent47]

Seems like an image thing to me in a lot of cases.

Exactly. To say one is a 'producer' probably does sound impressive to those outside of our music-tech world, or to noobs. If ever I mention that I produce, I always state that I don't work on big commercial stuff, just simply a handful of clients who do demos - I don't claim to do anything bigger than I am doing.

A little story...:

About 5 years ago I was renting a flat in South London, and in my spare room was my little studio set-up - basically a computer running Cubase VST5, my Yamaha SW1000 synth card and a controller keyboard. Anyway, I happened to be editing some audio in Cool Edit, when a young, baggy-off-the-peg-suited estate agent came in with some potential buyers (landlord was selling the flat). On seeing Cool Edit he said something along the lines of 'You should get Cool Edit Pro, that's what I use, I'm a record producer.'. I smiled and nodded politely. No you're not, I thought. You're a cock.

 

[RezN8]

I call myself a producer because of:

1. I do my own beat production
2. I perform all recording, EQ, and mixing
3. I push all my mcees to their full potential rather than putting bullshit on a track.
4. I publish all my music via web, cd, word of mouth, etc. to ensure that not only I, but my artists, get promotion they deserve
5. I book shows for all my artists whenever and however possible at local venues
6. I publicly announce that I do not master any work that leaves my studio. Pisses people off at first, but then they soon realize that the difference between a loud track and a mastered track saved them from being mad as hell about a finished product from THE BATTING CAGE.
7. I can play the guitar and piano.....Just threw that in there to save myself from RezN8, lol....

That's all I got..I'm probably gonna get bashed for my thought process of a producer, but f**k it..I is what I is...Jinx out-

If you do all that then you're the type of "producer" that all those other jokers are pretending to be. Kudos for doing all that yourself -especially for pushing your clients to their full potential. To me that's really a big part of producing. Big kudos for sending your clients to a Mastering house too. You're OK in my book, even if you can't play guitar or piano as well as you can produce.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I call myself a producer because of:

1. I do my own beat production
2. I perform all recording, EQ, and mixing
3. I push all my mcees to their full potential rather than putting bullshit on a track.
4. I publish all my music via web, cd, word of mouth, etc. to ensure that not only I, but my artists, get promotion they deserve
5. I book shows for all my artists whenever and however possible at local venues
6. I publicly announce that I do not master any work that leaves my studio. Pisses people off at first, but then they soon realize that the difference between a loud track and a mastered track saved them from being mad as hell about a finished product from THE BATTING CAGE.
7. I can play the guitar and piano.....Just threw that in there to save myself from RezN8, lol....

That's all I got..I'm probably gonna get bashed for my thought process of a producer, but f**k it..I is what I is...Jinx out-

Jinx, I'm not going to jump on you because you do sound like a hard worker who knows at least something more than your average self-styled "producer".

But a couple of honest points/questions here:

I do my own beat production

What you call "beat production" is what most acoustic or electirc musicians I know would simply call "coming up with a riff". If they work in electronica and have a machine repeat it for them, it's simply called "programming a sequence". It's just one small, beginning part of music production, and in and of itself is about as close to actual music production (under the classical definition) as someone who simply hollers "Action!" and "Cut!" is to being an actual movie director.

I know you do more than just that, again, I'm not going to jump on you. The question I have is, why do newbs feel the need to call "production" what is really litttle more than building a rhythm track? Is it that they just don't know what a "producer" really *is*, or is it a way of strutting some peacock feathers?

I also would ask about how you would describe the difference between what you describe as your job and that of a typical band manager? How do "band manager" and "producer" differ under that definition?

G.

 

[Robert D]

Yo, check it...... my probation officer handed me a plastic cup da other day an axed me to produce a urine sample, so there you go.
BTW, anybody got any clean samples for sale?

 

[Big Jinx]

Well, here's my take....

Jinx, I'm not going to jump on you because you do sound like a hard worker who knows at least something more than your average self-styled "producer".

But a couple of honest points/questions here:

What you call "beat production" is what most acoustic or electirc musicians I know would simply call "coming up with a riff". If they work in electronica and have a machine repeat it for them, it's simply called "programming a sequence". It's just one small, beginning part of music production, and in and of itself is about as close to actual music production (under the classical definition) as someone who simply hollers "Action!" and "Cut!" is to being an actual movie director.

I know you do more than just that, again, I'm not going to jump on you. The question I have is, why do newbs feel the need to call "production" what is really litttle more than building a rhythm track? Is it that they just don't know what a "producer" really *is*, or is it a way of strutting some peacock feathers?

I also would ask about how you would describe the difference between what you describe as your job and that of a typical band manager? How do "band manager" and "producer" differ under that definition?

G.

Beat production to me is more than just coming up with riffs...I do admit, however, that the style of music that I'm into (rap/hip hop) doesn't involve nearly the amount of orchestration required for other styles like folk, rock, or sometimes even R&B. I feel that rap/hiphop is sometimes meant to be layed out more simple than those styles because most the focus of it is 75% the verbal message of the mcee and 25% beat. Maybe I'm wrong, but most of the commercial stuff you hear on the radio has beats so simple, I'm sure that my 5 year son could duplicate on his Casio. I call myself a producer because I keep my hands on every part of the song process, from creation, to marketing, to publicity, to deletion from my hard drive, lol.....And about the newbies "producer" thing...I know that most of these younger guys call themselves producers because they understand the word itself puts them in leagues that they are not worthy of. They call themselves producers because they have FL 5.0, a buddy who can half-ass rap, and keep a firm grip on a Radio Shack dynamic. They call themselves producers 'cause the song they finished 15 minutes ago just got ran thru their cracked Waves L1 and now it's on Myspace. Vocals are louder than women who have sex with horses, you know what I'm say'in!?! I just firmly believe that a true "producer" doesn't need to know how to play Beethoven's 5th or own 4 guitars and knows how to play all of them, but I do "believe" that a "producer" should know how to make a masterpiece with the most minimal tools available..."Band Manager?" I think, could be wrong, that a band manager's job is to tell the band that they sound like shit, get them gigs, and take half the income from the last show they did. I don't think that he is involved with the creation of the material or the overall content. Maybe I fucked that one up, but I'm no genius, I'm in the Navy for god's sake....Just my .02 Let the bashing begin!!!!

 

[tone_aot]

I highly agree that producer is thrown around wayy too loosely. Now a days, if a person know's nothing about music at all and gets a copy of Fl Studio for 5 minutes, they wanna call themselves a producer!!! It's crazy! I'm not bashing FL Studio at all tho cause it's a wonderful program that i love to use along with my hardware from time to time. But, i think "producer" has to do more with the musical ability and musical diversity of the person. In my opinion, a producer should know how to do EVERYTHING in the whole recording process and make sure that the end result is nothing short of excellence. Should the producer actually do everything, no. He shouldn't run his self ragged. But, he should know how to get the right people to do the right things in order to get the right sound. I'm not trying to down anyone elses opinion. That's just my take.

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

Although not quite on the same scale, one could argue calling somebody who's grown up recording to a digital medium an "audio engineer" might be just as incorrect. After all, there are quite a few AE's around who don't have to know 90% of the shit AE's used to have to know with tape/primarily analog gear. One could argue the final product might be suffering just as much as hiring a "perdoosah" vs. a real "producer" is...

 

[cusebassman]

Although not quite on the same scale, one could argue calling somebody who's grown up recording to a digital medium an "audio engineer" might be just as incorrect. After all, there are quite a few AE's around who don't have to know 90% of the shit AE's used to have to know with tape/primarily analog gear. One could argue the final product might be suffering just as much as hiring a "perdoosah" vs. a real "producer" is...

Modern day audio engineers should be referred to as "Audio Dabblers" or "Microphone Placers".

How about "Computer users"

 

[Sydewayz Soundz]

Theres so many "producers" these days its retarded. Most of these clowns that I come across have a Triton or a Phantom and make beats off that and call them selves producers, and when you get them in a real studio to start tracking, they're completley clueless on how to do anything and to even ehat tracking is....I can't believe it sometimes.. and they call them selves producers??? A Producer title is something that has to be earned and something that comes over time when your shit sounds professionally recorded and mixed and people feel your shit...Step ya game up

 

[TuoKaerf]

I only take a production credit if I actually do some production on the CD.

I generally work with 2 types of artists-

1. Bands that know what they want, have all of their shit down (mostly), and come right into the studio. I track it, mix it and send it off. No production. This type of band is the majority of my clients, since it's usually the cheapest route for my services.

2. A band that has written songs, but wants more input into their sound and arrangement. I'll do a few weeks of pre-production with the band, working out the arrangements and making any changes that we can all agree on. A lot of times the band wants a different sound, and I'll help them do this. I also get a lot of singer/songwriter types that come in with their lyrics and guitar and want more added to the songs. Then I'll sit down at home and hack out string or other backing track arrangements in Finale.