Producers
- Thread starter Cult_Status02
- Start date
flatfinger
Use every dam bit!
I would greatly appreciate you gentleman not questioning the legitimacy of my self-appointed mastering engineer creditentials.
After all , I use a $40 pair of sony headphones ( the ones I got on the plane broke) and I use a non-cracked ( ponied up the $100) version of hair-ball. !!!
After all , I use a $40 pair of sony headphones ( the ones I got on the plane broke) and I use a non-cracked ( ponied up the $100) version of hair-ball. !!!
LeeRosario
New member
masteringhouse said:
the very meaning of the art....
To sum it up, "transparent". Amazing how diverse and important that word is in the audio field.
TragikRemix
I am NOT a Gear Whore. ;)
i think its thrown around way too much..
producers are people that really work so hard and succeed in an album i think.
you can 'produce' an album, but unless its awesome, you can't be called a producer.
that being said, i am not a producer ..
producers are people that really work so hard and succeed in an album i think.
you can 'produce' an album, but unless its awesome, you can't be called a producer.
that being said, i am not a producer ..
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
I agree with the "works with" part, but I don't see that as a "rather than" situation. As much as I am Beatle-fatigued, everybody loves using them as an example. Did George Martin not leave his imprint big-time on much of their stuff? Was that transparent?LeeRosario said:
Can one not often recognize T-Bone Burnett's sound from a mile away? Wasn't Roger Nichols specifically picked to help produce much of Steeley Dan's work in important part because of the previous sound he got from George Benson? Does not Rick Rubin make major strategic decisions for the sound of each of his big-name projects that are definitely his imprint?
From Don Kirschner and Phil Spector to Moby and RZA, most of the most-wanted producers are not wanted for their transparency, but for their ear and ability to creativly and purposly leave a positive sonic imprint.
None of which is related to the ability to make a a few one-bar sequences any more than directing a film is related to the ability to take a few snapshots.
G.
LeeRosario
New member
NL5 said:
there's definitely more than one type of producer as well...
I've always been taught/worked with/or seen about four "overall" general kinds:
-The fly on the wall, simply there as the investor and cordinator. Usually has good ties to other types of producers and suits.
-the director, for the artist who hasn't found direction and/or produces better results with outside direction. Usually very musically and artistically oriented. Maybe like a Bob Rock or something.
-the servant, for the artist who has a fierce sense of direction and just needs a producer to agree with and handle all the technical aspects. "ex. a Madonna or Mariah carey".
-The triple threat, the one who combines all three talents extremely well.
But like I said, you also see vocal producers, musical producers, producers who handle performance aspects, songwriters who can act as producers...the titles just vary.
In the end, anyone can be a producer. The only thing that changes and where the title means anything is in level of responsibility a "producer" has over any given project.
Beat makers, in my personal opinion, fall under a type of programmer/songwriter credit, not technically a producer.
Now the day they raise the money, book the studio, book the session musicians, discuss goals and deadlines, deal with the pressure to create something beyond himself, deal with the pressure of company concerns, vow to march foward no matter what problems may arise, keep the band, himself and deadlines together until the end...all in the best interest and representation of the artist:
then they've become a complete producer in the classical sense.
See, Rick Rubin for example is very business savy. I understand that for a fact. I've heard he's not exactly as "technically musical" as some other producers might be, but there's a huge gap between having great musical technicality and a great sense of context. Also, great organizational skill.
Rick Rubin has an amazing sense of context and aesthetics in music. Reading his interviews, he has a really good idea of where he wants something to go. Very similar to Al Schmitt in that aspect. Two producers who I highly respect.
Cult_Status02
New member
A lot of the roles a handful of posts have described, sound more like the band manager's job, not the producer.
johnsuitcase
New member
I think in most cases at the project studio level, the band self-produces. They may hire an engineer and studio, but they're calling all of the artistic shots, and the engineer is typically just saying "yeah, that sounded good" or "let's try it again."
A producer (to me) is someone who manages the project, including managing the budget, contributing to the songs and performance (maybe just by making suggestions, etc) and ensuring that the project is completed at the highest possible quality, given the time and budget contraints.
I do both, depending on the project. Usually, my credit on CDs just says "Recorded By", which I stole from Steve Albini, but I think is appropriate in most cases.
When I do a production gig, that's clearly established with the band before we start. I'll ask for demos, and attend rehearsals. I might suggest changes to lyrics, song structures, etc. And I give the band a hard figure for the delivery of the project. If I'm working for the label, then I give them a budget, and I deliver for that price, no more, no less.
I think a producer is analogous to a project manager, with artistic influence.
A producer (to me) is someone who manages the project, including managing the budget, contributing to the songs and performance (maybe just by making suggestions, etc) and ensuring that the project is completed at the highest possible quality, given the time and budget contraints.
I do both, depending on the project. Usually, my credit on CDs just says "Recorded By", which I stole from Steve Albini, but I think is appropriate in most cases.
When I do a production gig, that's clearly established with the band before we start. I'll ask for demos, and attend rehearsals. I might suggest changes to lyrics, song structures, etc. And I give the band a hard figure for the delivery of the project. If I'm working for the label, then I give them a budget, and I deliver for that price, no more, no less.
I think a producer is analogous to a project manager, with artistic influence.
fraserhutch
Flypaper for freaks
Not if you consider that the term producer a) is used to describe a person who "manages" the production, hence he is a producer, and 2) this is the traditional meaning of the term.
Cult_Status02 said:
Cult_Status02
New member
fraserhutch said:
I mean the financial aspects. The investor is usually the label acting as the bank for the band. They pay all studio fees and keep the money the album makes until it's paid back (hence why first cds of major label acts will only see cents from each CD). There's a difference between a film producer and a music producer, one's fronting the money, and one's not (usually).
I do agree that they are supposed manage all aspects of the studio experience.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
There are a million different types of "producer" with a million titles (e.g. line producer, segment producer, music producer, movie producer, executive producer, etc.)
It'd be a hell of a lot easier and better if we referred to the new breeds as either "beat producer" or "sequence producer" or both. Then it'd be an obvious distinction form the generic "producer" which is a different job altogether, and they'd still be able to stroke themselves with a self-important-sounding title.
And as far as "producer" itself, yeah that can take different flavors. The way I like to look at it is as a series of tasks rather than a manned position. These prodcution tasks always need to get done, even if by default. Someone is making decisions as to how the tracks sound, someone is signing the checks, someone brings in other musicians or taske some out, someone plays taskmaster (or not), etc. In most smaller audio productions, there is no one person that does all these, they are often spread out amongst several people (the engineer, the bandleader, the manager, etc.), often by default.
There may not be an actual single producer, but the tasks that the prodcuer would be doing if he were there still exist, and still get done or get ignored. When you do have a a person taking the role of "producer", they are taking some subset of the total tasks involved in mnaging the production. Sometimes they don't sign the checks, the manager does that. Or sometimes they don't play taskmaster, the bandleader does that. Or sometimes they don't make many creative decisions, they leave that up to the band and/or the engineer. And so forth.
But for me, anyway, a real, full-blown producer is one who directs the musical production and not just provide the budget management. A full music producer is IMHO to an album what the director is to a film - as well as the film producer. Rick Rubin is the Steven Spielberg of audio, Phil Ramone the Stanley Kubrick, etc.
And that takes one hell of a larger skill set than beat producer or sequence producer does.
G.
It'd be a hell of a lot easier and better if we referred to the new breeds as either "beat producer" or "sequence producer" or both. Then it'd be an obvious distinction form the generic "producer" which is a different job altogether, and they'd still be able to stroke themselves with a self-important-sounding title.
And as far as "producer" itself, yeah that can take different flavors. The way I like to look at it is as a series of tasks rather than a manned position. These prodcution tasks always need to get done, even if by default. Someone is making decisions as to how the tracks sound, someone is signing the checks, someone brings in other musicians or taske some out, someone plays taskmaster (or not), etc. In most smaller audio productions, there is no one person that does all these, they are often spread out amongst several people (the engineer, the bandleader, the manager, etc.), often by default.
There may not be an actual single producer, but the tasks that the prodcuer would be doing if he were there still exist, and still get done or get ignored. When you do have a a person taking the role of "producer", they are taking some subset of the total tasks involved in mnaging the production. Sometimes they don't sign the checks, the manager does that. Or sometimes they don't play taskmaster, the bandleader does that. Or sometimes they don't make many creative decisions, they leave that up to the band and/or the engineer. And so forth.
But for me, anyway, a real, full-blown producer is one who directs the musical production and not just provide the budget management. A full music producer is IMHO to an album what the director is to a film - as well as the film producer. Rick Rubin is the Steven Spielberg of audio, Phil Ramone the Stanley Kubrick, etc.
And that takes one hell of a larger skill set than beat producer or sequence producer does.
G.
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Cult_Status02
New member
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Aye Aye Cap'n! I was thinking that as well. I think we've now let people know what kind of producer we're talking about.
So what type of producer are you? Glen is basically right. there are a million types of producers. That all do one thing, produce. They could be producing goods for the regional supermarket, or they could be producing an album. Engineers are more technical as already said. Producers to me, have hands on approach to the product that is being recorded. From audio arrangements to the premaster. A producer to me, is usually the guy who stands around watching, and telling the talent they should be doing it such and such way because it's more x. Or, they should cut out this spot because of x, or I want this type of effect at this particular point in time. To me, the word producer, is thrown around & 2 broad of a term just by itself.
Erockrazor
I mix in (2x) real-time
I agree that "producer" is used a little loosely. I feel that many terms in our environment are used loosely. People own a "studio" once they have a few pieces of gear their bedroom. I feel like "audio engineer" is used incorrectly many times. I think that many people say audio engineer when they should be saying "recording engineer". I think that audio engineers apply more to the science of sound and acoustics more than actually recording. (correct me if im wrong)
when people ask me what i want my career to be ... I would like to say record producer. which i believe entails guiding the bad toward commercial success , whether it being in the studio or for their live act , planning their studio projects , and working with them in the recording environment.
when people ask me what i want my career to be ... I would like to say record producer. which i believe entails guiding the bad toward commercial success , whether it being in the studio or for their live act , planning their studio projects , and working with them in the recording environment.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Erock, I know that was just an inadvertant typo, and I'm not making fun of it or you or anything like that.Erockrazor said:
I just think it's hilarious that WITH that typo you have accidentally hit the nail on the head in describing another popular type of producer that is waaaay to common today. A Freudian typo?
.G.
flatfinger
Use every dam bit!
SouthSIDE Glen said:Erock, I know that was just an inadvertant typo, and I'm not making fun of it or you or anything like that.
I just think it's hilarious that WITH that typo you have accidentally hit the nail on the head in describing another popular type of producer that is waaaay to common today. A Freudian typo?
G.
Don't discount the talent of todays chart toppers; Linear melody is so hard to master!
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Interesting euphamismflatfinger said:Don't discount the talent of todays chart toppers; Linear melody is so hard to master!
But I wasn't so much looking that direction as I was something like Don Kirschner or Simon Cowell
.G.
Steve Henningsgard
New member
Disclaimer: I'm gonna say a bunch of what's been said, but you asked for opinions and by-joe you're gonna get 'em!
To me, a producer (in the music sense) is a person a band or label hires to control and oversee the development and completion of a record. A good producer will steer the recording/mixing process in a direction that best fits the band's/label's vision. The producer, along with the Recording Engineer, take care of everything else a band would have to worry about in order to procure the best translation of the band's talents to CD form.
That's my thought, anyway.
To me, a producer (in the music sense) is a person a band or label hires to control and oversee the development and completion of a record. A good producer will steer the recording/mixing process in a direction that best fits the band's/label's vision. The producer, along with the Recording Engineer, take care of everything else a band would have to worry about in order to procure the best translation of the band's talents to CD form.
That's my thought, anyway.