Piracy

Please excuse my interrupting the moral arguement for a digression.In the ancient Indian philosophy they have a concept (pardon the phonetic Sanscrit) "achintya bedha bedha tutva" which translates as "inconceiveably simultaniously one and different".The example is given with this of a flame of a candle lighting another candle.Then you compare the qualities of the two flames.Are they the same?Well sorta...Each can do exactly what the other can do.There is no practical difference between the original flame and the copy.The original flame can also light millions of exact copies of itself without diminishing its inherant qualities of heat and light.So can any other flame derived from the originalAre they different?well kinda,despite that they are both flame...one IS the original and ALL the others the copies.
It is funny that this old religeous parable might be appropriate to this arguement.As I said,I am not addressing morality at all.Just looking at the "tangeble" issue from what seems to be a very sophisticated approach from a long gone pre-technical culture.Let the argueing continue now...
Tom
 
daled said:


Sorry Fangar, yes the disc is tangible but that is not what you pay for. You pay for the program which is actually just digital information that is not tangible. As I said in my last post, this is what makes it easy for some people to justify pirating software because it is not physical.
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Oh.... Now I see, thanks. So If I steal your ATM card, that would be "tangible". But if I take your ATM and transfer the $83.46 out of your savings account that would be OK, because it is just "digital information" that would be transferred to my account, which of course we now know is not "tangible". Then I could just use MY bankcard which belongs to me to spend the $83.46 cents at Target. I could even give your ATM card back at that point. I like that, what's your PIN?

Fangar
 
avast ye swabs

I believe it's called "intellectual property" - why don't we scan all of the Stephen King novels so everybody can read them? Desperation drives piracy. When I was 18, or 24 even, shit even now 500$ is a solid amount of bread. But I just GOTTA have that sw! I promise to buy rev 300a-SP16 when it comes out! Bottom line is rules are rules - play by em or not. Just keep it to yourself....
 
Fangar:

Oh.... Now I see, thanks. So If I steal your ATM card, that would be "tangible". But if I take your ATM and transfer the $83.46 out of your savings account that would be OK, because it is just "digital information" that would be transferred to my account, which of course we now know is not "tangible". Then I could just use MY bankcard which belongs to me to spend the $83.46 cents at Target. I could even give your ATM card back at that point. I like that, what's your PIN?

just for the sake of the argument, will you please take a look in a dictionary so that you understand what the word 'tangible' means before you keep using it any longer...

I am NOT supporting software piracy rather just pointing out weakness in your arguments against it and trying to give insight as to why some people may not feel guilty doing it. Im not trying to advocate piracy, nor am I trying to push my values on those who do, Im simply trying to explore both sides of the argument. Don't you agree that computer software's intangible nature is the reason why people feel it is okay to pirate it? I know many people, even good, wholesome, church-goin' folk, that have copied a software cds without feeling the slightest bit guilty. Is it because they wish to put software developers out of a job or because they were starting on a road to live a life of crime and auto theft (or guitar theft, or whatever the hell we continue to compare sw piracy to)? No, im guessing not. Im guessing it is because they felt that they were really doing no harm in sharing these files... Same as people who dub cds to tapes for their friends... It feels more like sharing than "steeling"...
 
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just for the sake of the argument, will you please take a look in a dictionary so that you understand what the word 'tangible' means before you keep using it any longer...

Please. I feel that I have a grasp on what the definition of "tangible" is. You seem to be the one that stresses this definition in an effort to justify your habits. I think that most of the fellas on this post have given you valid examples of intangible items that are paid for. If you feel the need to pirate software, and this is acceptable to your conscience only by you deeming software to be intangible, than rock on brother! Be proud. It is very similar (though I agree with you on a lesser level) with the Parolee or villain that is always the victim. It's all in the justification. I just think for those of us who understand the way that others create and how others will always infringe, there is no reason for your attempted justification. One can not persuade, nor dissuade another with values whether positive or negative.

FaNgaR
 
There is not a person on this board that couldn't buy software as opposed to stealing it. Everyone on this board has a computer, an internet connection, and without a doubt, economic means of one form or another. They may have to save up for it, but they could still purchase it legally. Heck, they may even have to cancel that internet connection for a while, put that $30 bucks a month in savings, and after a year or so, cound easilly buy the software. If cancelling the internet connection is not an option, then I am sure there are other sacrifaces one could make. So, "I can't afford it" just doesn't hold water!

Wheather you perceive s/w to be tangible or not, still doesn't justify accquiring it by illegal means. I also firmly believe that the industry itself will work to combat piracy in the very near future. The s/w I use requires an LPT dongle to work; an older, more antiquated method to be sure, but still very effective against piracy. I think you'll see this, and other methods more common-place in years to come.

At any rate, you should pay for the products and services you use.
 
Fangar,
I can definitely understand where everyone is coming from in disaproving sw piracy and, as I have said before, I'm not trying to advocate piracy but just trying to get you to see the other side of it. Not all people downloading sw are heartless bastards but probably more uneducated on the subject or, even more likely, just ignorant to the effects. I for one cant condone sw piracy because I have downloaded mp3s myself which, in a sense, is no different than sw piracy. I was just sick of people being hypocritical and outright judgmental because it is an easy topic to point fingers on...

But anyway, this thread is getting old and rather unproductive at that.

Happy recording :)
 
I think camn made a good point. It's not right, but stealing (and it is stealing) software is not on the same level as stealing hardware in my opinion.

Once the software is written making copies of it is virtually free. If someone steals a copy of software they would never otherwise buy, the loss to the company is minimal. The crime is more one of ethics and fairness to those who worked hard to pay for their copies.

Copies of guitars, amps computers and the like don't come for free. Hardware manufacturers have to spend money and effort on development and also to manufacture every copy. The retailer and final owner spent their hard earned money as well.

Think of it this way. If one of your "friends" snuck onto your computer and burned copies of your $2000 worth of recording software, would you be as upset as if he had stolen your $2000 computer itself. Of course not. The copied software is no loss to you other than a moral one. The computer is a physical loss which you will have to work hard to replace.

Like I said, I don't think it's right, but stealing software is not on the same par as stealing hardware. On the other hand, most of us here have worked hard to pay for very expensive software, so don't be shocked when you are deservedly slammed for your freeloading inquiry.

barefoot
 
Sup damnednation? Um, 3500 dollars worth? Better steal some more to get your money's worth. Thaaaat's right. Your money's worth. Caus' 50 grand is what you're gunna be paying once one of these guys tips the cops off to you. I wont nark on you(I don't believe in that), but someone else might.
 
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