So now we've resorted to name calling, eh? Is the difference between stealing a car and running a stop sign that big? You're breaking the law either way, aren't you? My point is simply that almost everyone bends or breaks the rules in one form or another. I can justify my "piracy" through what I believe is a very valid theory (see my above posts). To you, I am a thief; nothing more that an arrogant, deliquent, "little boy". I can only hope that one day I will grow up to be as noble and righteous as you.
Piracy
- Thread starter DamnedNation
- Start date
So now we've resorted to name calling, eh? Is the difference between stealing a car and running a stop sign that big? You're breaking the law either way, aren't you? My point is simply that almost everyone bends or breaks the rules in one form or another. I can justify my "piracy" through what I believe is a very valid theory (see my above posts). To you, I am a thief; nothing more that an arrogant, deliquent, "little boy". I can only hope that one day I will grow up to be as noble and righteous as you.
This is the millionth thread I've read regarding 'software piracy' on this board and it's getting fucking sickening. These threads never end up going anywhere.
You've got one side saying it's there for the taking so it's mine and then you've got the other side preaching about the immorality of it all. In the end, no one really gives a FUCK what the other says!
I personally don't agree with SW piracy for my own reasons BUT I hate the people on this board who get up on their soapboxes and try to make themselves sound holier than thou. For fuck sakes, open your eyes! This type of stuff has been happening for ages and I am guessing that you yourself have done something 'illegal' online at one time or another.
The focus of these threads are usually on software piracy but what about mp3s? You cant tell me that you have never downloaded an mp3 in your life! Even if it was to sample an artist before buying the album, what difference is this from sampling a program before purchasing it? If you like it, you buy it to get all the extra goodies (manuals, support, peace of mind) but if you dont you still have a couple hundred bucks in your pocket to spend on a better quality program that will better perform for you. This ensures that the strongest companies with quality programs will survive while the companies producing lackluster products will fail, keeping the market efficient rather than crowded with inferior products.
Besides downloading mp3s, I'm sure that most of you have either burnt a copy of a cd, bought/made a bootleg recording of a concert or even downloaded guitar tabs of your favorite band from a website. Even if you 'justify' downloading mp3s because you don't have the means to obtain them legally (they are rare recordings that can't be bought in stores or would be vital to your record collection), these are all illegal activities and, as many of you have said before, is still illegal regardless of how 'insignificant' the act may seem (who the fuck keeps comparing pirated software to steeling a vehicle? Holy fuck! A little extreme!!? For future reference why don't we associate pirating software to killing a baby!!). With that said, what is the difference between someone downloading an mp3 because they dont have the means to purchase the recording legally and someone downloading pirated software because they too dont have the means to purchase it legally?
So in the end, I'm just trying to say that most of you are complete hypocrites for openly criticising the people who are using pirated software while you are more than likely turning a blind eye to your own 'illegal' actions. Let's try to make some productive use of this board and save these useless threads on personal values and morals for another time!
You've got one side saying it's there for the taking so it's mine and then you've got the other side preaching about the immorality of it all. In the end, no one really gives a FUCK what the other says!
I personally don't agree with SW piracy for my own reasons BUT I hate the people on this board who get up on their soapboxes and try to make themselves sound holier than thou. For fuck sakes, open your eyes! This type of stuff has been happening for ages and I am guessing that you yourself have done something 'illegal' online at one time or another.
The focus of these threads are usually on software piracy but what about mp3s? You cant tell me that you have never downloaded an mp3 in your life! Even if it was to sample an artist before buying the album, what difference is this from sampling a program before purchasing it? If you like it, you buy it to get all the extra goodies (manuals, support, peace of mind) but if you dont you still have a couple hundred bucks in your pocket to spend on a better quality program that will better perform for you. This ensures that the strongest companies with quality programs will survive while the companies producing lackluster products will fail, keeping the market efficient rather than crowded with inferior products.
Besides downloading mp3s, I'm sure that most of you have either burnt a copy of a cd, bought/made a bootleg recording of a concert or even downloaded guitar tabs of your favorite band from a website. Even if you 'justify' downloading mp3s because you don't have the means to obtain them legally (they are rare recordings that can't be bought in stores or would be vital to your record collection), these are all illegal activities and, as many of you have said before, is still illegal regardless of how 'insignificant' the act may seem (who the fuck keeps comparing pirated software to steeling a vehicle? Holy fuck! A little extreme!!? For future reference why don't we associate pirating software to killing a baby!!). With that said, what is the difference between someone downloading an mp3 because they dont have the means to purchase the recording legally and someone downloading pirated software because they too dont have the means to purchase it legally?
So in the end, I'm just trying to say that most of you are complete hypocrites for openly criticising the people who are using pirated software while you are more than likely turning a blind eye to your own 'illegal' actions. Let's try to make some productive use of this board and save these useless threads on personal values and morals for another time!
Uladine
New member
I know many people will disagree with this...
But what if the original prices for software and music weren't so steep in the first place? Now I'm not talking about cheap programs and stuff like fruity loops and stuff. $100 bucks is no big deal as long as its a good program. Hell even $300 for Sonar is reasonable to me. But when you get up into thousands of dollars for a single piece of software, of course people are going to be enclined to steal it.
I mean I'm no software expert, but why is it that Pro Tools is so outragiously more expensive than Sonar? The people at Cakewalk I'm sure worked just as hard at creating Sonar as the Pro Tools guys did at making Pro Tools. The Sound quality is the same isn't it? Are you paying extra money to be able to say "I'm using the same software that all the pro's use"? The effect of the price difference is that piracy is increased or business is driven away by making customers buy something more within their reach. If I wanted Pro Tools, I could use Morpheus, find the program and download it. But I can't let myself do that. So Instead I got $300 together and ordered Sonar. Even though it cost me more I know I'll feel better in the long run.
And what about music? If you could buy any regular CD with a 10 spot (after tax and everything) I think Napster wouldn't ever have been such a big problem. I mean personally, I would rather bring a 10 spot to a store and get the album I want with all of the packaging and artwork it comes with than sit there and download compressed versions of the songs, compile them and burn them onto a CDR and write the title on it with a marker.
The problem is that CD's are often like 20 bucks now. OF COURSE people are going to steal music if they can do so so easily. The record companies should open their eyes and realize that this may be where the problem is. Then they could make money off the shear volume of units they sell because its now so much easier to go out and buy your own copy of an album you want.
Summary:
Lower prices and the urge to steal is decreased.
Just my uneducated humble opinion.
But what if the original prices for software and music weren't so steep in the first place? Now I'm not talking about cheap programs and stuff like fruity loops and stuff. $100 bucks is no big deal as long as its a good program. Hell even $300 for Sonar is reasonable to me. But when you get up into thousands of dollars for a single piece of software, of course people are going to be enclined to steal it.
I mean I'm no software expert, but why is it that Pro Tools is so outragiously more expensive than Sonar? The people at Cakewalk I'm sure worked just as hard at creating Sonar as the Pro Tools guys did at making Pro Tools. The Sound quality is the same isn't it? Are you paying extra money to be able to say "I'm using the same software that all the pro's use"? The effect of the price difference is that piracy is increased or business is driven away by making customers buy something more within their reach. If I wanted Pro Tools, I could use Morpheus, find the program and download it. But I can't let myself do that. So Instead I got $300 together and ordered Sonar. Even though it cost me more I know I'll feel better in the long run.
And what about music? If you could buy any regular CD with a 10 spot (after tax and everything) I think Napster wouldn't ever have been such a big problem. I mean personally, I would rather bring a 10 spot to a store and get the album I want with all of the packaging and artwork it comes with than sit there and download compressed versions of the songs, compile them and burn them onto a CDR and write the title on it with a marker.
The problem is that CD's are often like 20 bucks now. OF COURSE people are going to steal music if they can do so so easily. The record companies should open their eyes and realize that this may be where the problem is. Then they could make money off the shear volume of units they sell because its now so much easier to go out and buy your own copy of an album you want.
Summary:
Lower prices and the urge to steal is decreased.
Just my uneducated humble opinion.
Michael Jones
New member
daled said:
No one is trying to make themselfs "Holier Than Thou" Just trying to point out that stealing is wrong!
This stuff has been going on for a long time, and the more people try to justify the wrong doings in their minds, the longer it will continue to go on.
Indeed I have D/L MP3's before, but always from places like MP3.com, or IUMA, where the downloading is encouraged.
Nothing, they are both stealing.
That is just another ill attempt to try and justify stealing. The better known companies, like digi-design, and Steinberg have built their reputation for quality products. The lesser known companies often offer "trial versions" of their software with time/date locks in the s/w so, you can leagelly "try before you buy".
That would be me! Point is there are both stealing! I don't think its extreme at all. I'm just pointing out that they are both tangible products, you have no right to illeaglly accquire either one of them.
Man, talk about extreme! One is murder, the other is theft. Even our own criminal justice system sees the difference between those.
No difference, they are both wrong.
Well, lets see:
I don't use any pirated software
I don't have any illeagle MP3's
The software I do use was purchased by me and registered by me, and I'm the ONLY one that uses it.
I don't think any of that makes me a hypocrite.
Now there's something I can agree with! Hear, Hear! I for one will not perpetuate this thread any more. It is getting old, and people will continue to use the excuse "I can't afford it" to justify the ill-gotten means by which they accquire software.Let's try to make some productive use of this board and save these useless threads on personal values and morals for another time!
Begin sarcasm:
All hail MJ! Here among us we have a software saint! Bow to your knees before him! He has resisted temptation, he was victorious where so many others failed. Let us offer up a song of praise:
Oh how glorious it would be!
To bask in his radiant honesty.
Never has he failed to pay
He only does it the noble way!
He still buys CD's from Sam Goody
and when he watches movies its HIS DVD.
Are we worthy to be here? Him we are surely below
Look closely now you can see his halo.
End sarcasm.
MJ, hope you don't take offense at the above. Everythings gonna be all right. Chill out, make some music. God knows we all need to do more of that on this BBS. Peace.
true enough... lets recap: piracy IS wrong but, like anything else, you can't tell people what to do and expect them to listen to you. In the end, people must come to their own conclusions and live with their actions and the consequences that come with that whether it be steeling a car, steeling software or killing a baby (this was a joke by the way...), all wrong to different degrees BUT all illegal none-the-less.
pisces7378
New member
I myself bought Logic Audio Platinum from a music store here in Munich Germany. I have never used a pirated software. Not necessarily because I don't want to but it has a lot to do with the fact that I don't know how. I have had Morpheus for about 8 months now, and havve downloaded a coupld of MP3s. I did download the full version of Sonar but I never even installed it. (I already have Logic, why drive a Chevy when you have a BMW. The only reason I am making this post is because I am probably a perfect example of a run of the mill joe of the new information century. I know a little bit about computers. Not a lot, just enough to do what I want, but still have a hunger to learn more. I am not downloading pirated software of C++ code compilers and code generation tools, or NASA logistic lunar module simulators, but I am not above snagging a stupid word processor just to see if I like it before I sink $900 into it.
Now the only thing that makes me want to laugh my ass off are the peole on this thread that say... I do not pirate software EVER!!! Now I know that there are a few rare souls that, for lack of necessisity or lack of knowledge, or from reading the bible too much, just would never do something like that. And to those people, I salute you and admire your moral fiber. I mean that seriously.
But for you poser shit smears that say "I myself do not pirate software, but don't see anything wrong with it"..... Who the fuck are you kidding. You ass covering, cowards. If you have downloaded some software before that wasn't exactly on the straight and narrow... then say it. Fuck it. Are the cyber cops patrolling the BBS of HomeRec . com? Like I said, I have downloaded some stuff that was probably technically illegal. But I don't even use it. I just did it out of a natural human tendency to "just see if I could do it". I am totally satisfied with my Logic Audio Platinum software and would never use any stollen software to make my music. I believe in karma, and my music isn't that great as it easy. I certainly do not need negative energy like, being made with stollen software to jinx the project even worse. But if you have ripped off a ware before and you have posted on this or any other site that same old tired, "I myself have neer done it... but I don't see the harm" that is like going to the psychologist with that, "I don't masterbate, but I have this friend and he said......"
The moral to the story is... Stop "jerking" us around yellow belly. And admit that you have flogged a few wares in your tenure.
Just my adition.
Now the only thing that makes me want to laugh my ass off are the peole on this thread that say... I do not pirate software EVER!!! Now I know that there are a few rare souls that, for lack of necessisity or lack of knowledge, or from reading the bible too much, just would never do something like that. And to those people, I salute you and admire your moral fiber. I mean that seriously.
But for you poser shit smears that say "I myself do not pirate software, but don't see anything wrong with it"..... Who the fuck are you kidding. You ass covering, cowards. If you have downloaded some software before that wasn't exactly on the straight and narrow... then say it. Fuck it. Are the cyber cops patrolling the BBS of HomeRec . com? Like I said, I have downloaded some stuff that was probably technically illegal. But I don't even use it. I just did it out of a natural human tendency to "just see if I could do it". I am totally satisfied with my Logic Audio Platinum software and would never use any stollen software to make my music. I believe in karma, and my music isn't that great as it easy. I certainly do not need negative energy like, being made with stollen software to jinx the project even worse. But if you have ripped off a ware before and you have posted on this or any other site that same old tired, "I myself have neer done it... but I don't see the harm" that is like going to the psychologist with that, "I don't masterbate, but I have this friend and he said......"
The moral to the story is... Stop "jerking" us around yellow belly. And admit that you have flogged a few wares in your tenure.
Just my adition.
What I can't fucking stand is the people who bitch and complain about pirating 'recording' software yet have a hard drive full of other pirated software and mp3s. What makes you think you have the right to tell other people what is right or wrong?
I also hate how people keep comparing software piracy to steeling a vehicle! There is a HUGE difference. Vehicles, microphones, amplifiers, etc. are tangible, while software is intangible. This makes a big difference when it comes to legality, just look at all the trouble that the recording industry is having with mp3s.
I also hate how people keep comparing software piracy to steeling a vehicle! There is a HUGE difference. Vehicles, microphones, amplifiers, etc. are tangible, while software is intangible. This makes a big difference when it comes to legality, just look at all the trouble that the recording industry is having with mp3s.
Jamie Jukosky
New member
what a bunch of potty mouths! Try out demos, and save up for the ones you like. Also learn some better words than "fuck" because it's written so much nobody even pays attention to it anymore.
Michael Jones
New member
...Everytime time I try to get out, they drag me back in!
daled said:
Look, daled, software is a tangible product. It comes in a box, it has manuals, disks, registration cards, all of those things make it tangible! Even if it was intangible, its still wrong to steal it!! I don't pretend to tell people what is right or wrong, but under the rules of this BB, I do have the privledge to state my opinion. (and I usually do so with out cussing and screaming.)
Side note: Synergy, no offense taken man! I thought it was pretty clever! Oh, and BTW, I do own ALL of the DVD's I watch. I have a pretty nice collection too! But you are right about one thing, we ought to just chill out and make music.
SamuelHauck
New member
Its not illegal
its wrong
its wrong
Michael Jones said:
Software itself is intangible by definition (not capable of being touched). Sure the manual and disc are tangible but did you just pay $500 for a manual and disc? The program itself is intangible but the discs, manuals and registration cards are justed added to give "tangibility" to the entire product. This is a simple marketing move to make the consumer feel like they bought something of value when they are holding the disc and manual in their hands because, in fact, the 'real' product cant be felt.
This is the reason why some people don't like to download pirated versions because they feel they haven't recieved the 'full' product - if you you're not holding something tangible in your hands then you dont have anything. This is why the recording industry isnt hurting because of mp3s, people still WANT the cd booklets, trays, etc so they buy the album. This also why most software companies sell more products in store than online (if they even offer their product online), because people want to hold a box w/ manuals, etc. after paying $500 rather than just have some 0s and 1s on their hard drive.
This is also why some people justify pirating software because it is intangible. It is not a car, a mic, a guitar, a mixer or whatever. It is something completely different. People who pirate software dont care about the box, the manual, the disc because they separate the tangible (manual, box, etc.) from the actual intangible product (the program). On the other hand, the people who prefer to buy the product want the tangible aspect as well in order to affirm their purchase.
Well this is just one aspect of it all...
Angermeyer
New member
If I may add one small point...
To steal, pirate, try, backup software or anything else is ultimatly a personal choice. You can only do what YOU find acceptable.
But if you can't buy anything then the very least a slacker can do is figure out how to get these files themself.
Posting a thread like this divides people when what they should do is record.
Angermeyer
To steal, pirate, try, backup software or anything else is ultimatly a personal choice. You can only do what YOU find acceptable.
But if you can't buy anything then the very least a slacker can do is figure out how to get these files themself.
Posting a thread like this divides people when what they should do is record.
Angermeyer
Fangar
New member
daled said:
Actually, Software would be Tangible if you actually paid for it! Then you would have a CD ROM or Floppy to "TOUCH". I think the vehicle comparison was fine, after all it was just an example. The thing that I fear is that of you could find a way to suck a car through your 56K modem, you would. =)
Fangar
camn
Active member
I think that the biggest difference petween piracy, in this sense, and Theft, in the auto sense is this:
When you steal a guitar... the person you just stole it from doesnt have it anymore.
When you d/l a copy of fruityloops, they still have it.
Ive said it before and Ill say it again... shitty biz models dont deserve to make money.
Innovate, dont Legislate.
xoox
When you steal a guitar... the person you just stole it from doesnt have it anymore.
When you d/l a copy of fruityloops, they still have it.
Ive said it before and Ill say it again... shitty biz models dont deserve to make money.
Innovate, dont Legislate.
xoox
Fangar said:
Sorry Fangar, yes the disc is tangible but that is not what you pay for. You pay for the program which is actually just digital information that is not tangible. As I said in my last post, this is what makes it easy for some people to justify pirating software because it is not physical.
Track Rat
Just Your Average Sized Member
Is an education tangible? When you go to college and pay for tuition they don't hand you something that weighs 700 pounds with a tag on it that says"smarts". Yet that education is VERY tangible. How about emotions like love and hate. They're very tangible.
getuhgrip
Bring Back Transfat!
I won't comment to the effect of passing judgement, but only as to this issue of "tangibility".
I guess to the young goofballs we raise today it seems perfectly natural to think that because something is downloadable from the web, it's origin is magical. Just like cellular phone signals and those Mastercards that come in the mail even though you don't have a job!
I've used and continue to use some programs for evaluation prior to making a several hundred dollar mistake. Those that work for me, I buy. Those that don't get trashed.
I got pretty pissed a couple weeks back when some kid was trying to get codes for Ntrack. Another one who thought that it was like Dungeons and Dragons: I've got the magic software, now all I need to complete the Quest of Victory is to solve the puzzle for the Magic Code!
What this pup doesn't see, and what others don't seem to grasp, is the image of a guy named Flavio who spends his time trying to develop a newer, better software for people at a reasonable price. It's magic, but it's not a gift. The tangient is that if people don't pay, he doesn't eat.
Larger producers like Cakewalk will still eat if a few folks pirate their product, but again, Sonar and Cubase didn't just materialize magicaly. Somebody went into the office at 8 in the morning until 5 in the evening inventing and perfecting it.
If you lived nextdoor to a software developer who found out you were stealing his magic and he punched you in da head as you were getting into your car in the morning, would that be tangible?
BTW- TrackRat, excellent analogy.
I guess to the young goofballs we raise today it seems perfectly natural to think that because something is downloadable from the web, it's origin is magical. Just like cellular phone signals and those Mastercards that come in the mail even though you don't have a job!
I've used and continue to use some programs for evaluation prior to making a several hundred dollar mistake. Those that work for me, I buy. Those that don't get trashed.
I got pretty pissed a couple weeks back when some kid was trying to get codes for Ntrack. Another one who thought that it was like Dungeons and Dragons: I've got the magic software, now all I need to complete the Quest of Victory is to solve the puzzle for the Magic Code!
What this pup doesn't see, and what others don't seem to grasp, is the image of a guy named Flavio who spends his time trying to develop a newer, better software for people at a reasonable price. It's magic, but it's not a gift. The tangient is that if people don't pay, he doesn't eat.
Larger producers like Cakewalk will still eat if a few folks pirate their product, but again, Sonar and Cubase didn't just materialize magicaly. Somebody went into the office at 8 in the morning until 5 in the evening inventing and perfecting it.
If you lived nextdoor to a software developer who found out you were stealing his magic and he punched you in da head as you were getting into your car in the morning, would that be tangible?
BTW- TrackRat, excellent analogy.