My PERFECT 244 - another Bad Rubber inquiry

[timkroeger]

Tom,

congratilations! I wouldn't go with ebay, if you don't already have some positive feedback there. People bid lower if a seller has "no reputation". It should be the last straw. I'd advice craigslist, too and maybe link this thread. This board has a Free Ad forum, too. You can post your ad there, I'd say. What about an ad in the newspaper? I have found some of my gems in a newspaper free ad.

Cheers
Tim

 

[cjacek]

Excellent advice Tim. Great point on eBay feedback.

I actually would recommend posting your "For Sale" ad in the Analog Only forum with a link to this servicing thread, as Tim suggested. You're gonna get a lot more bites that way and people there are fine with it, posting analog related stuff there. That and craigslist (although make sure you ask for a tel # with all inquiries). It might also help to post copies of receipts for all the parts (your personal info blacked out of course). That's all I can think of for now.

 

[Tom Overthere]

Thanks Tim and thanks Dan.

I appreciate the suggestions, and really appreciate the warnings.
I'm not very enthused about selling online, so I'm glad to have advice on which "dark alleys to avoid".

I expect to construct a well protected plywood crate, assuming I'll have to ship this:

244 wrapped in plastic with desiccant packs,
surrounded by firm foam padding,
surrounded by plywood crate,
surrounded by rigid foam (polystyrene),
surrounded by cardboard outer box.

'Should survive a direct ICBM strike

I'll post a picture when done. The shipping cost will increase, no doubt, along with the survivability factor...

 

[cjacek]

Oh man, I'm really tempted to buy your 244, if it not for my already exhaustive collection, including one 244 and another 246...

Someone will inherit a really nice machine & bomb proof packed too! Well done.

If you do ship, do it FedEx Ground.

Yeah, I'd say your best bet is try to sell on the AO forum and craigslist. Maybe someone local will bite?

 

[Tom Overthere]

Thanks. Yeah, you have enough toys, or at least enough to ping-pong tracks.

I hope my local potential buyer takes it. If not, I'll probably try to avoid the Craigslist route. 'Don't want folks tramping through the house if I can help it... I will try the Free Ad Forum at Tim's suggestion, and the Analog Only forum per your suggestion, with the understanding that they D allow "FOR SALE" posts in AO...

If you do ship, do it FedEx Ground.

Thanks for the tip. If my buyer agrees to pay the freight, I'll send it on a magic carpet or whatever else she/he chooses. Gonna be a bit hefty with that crate, though.

 

[cjacek]

and the Analog Only forum per your suggestion, with the understanding that they D allow "FOR SALE" posts in AO...

Oh yeah, we've talked about it some and people are OK with that. You can freely tell them that it's per my suggestion that you're posting there. That and the link and you're golden!

 

[dontaylor]

TOM, Recently I sold my "pride & joy" CAT SRM thru Craig's List--all the way to Utah & I reside in Fl. The sale went GREAT. What I'd like to advise you: AVOID UPS ! Make the 'brownies' your LAST RESORT short of a camel cavelcade. I did NOT go to a UPS store-i know they gouge. I went to my local depot where i HAD been treated well.
I'll skip to the chase: My 22.6lb. Synth was boxed, by me, reboxed by them, I had my own 'popcorn' BUT, she just HAD to add more...Actural weight 40lbs. yet "billing weight" 60 lbs.=$67.39 !
Plus: Service Option=$5.40
Fuel Surcharge $3.84
Delivery Area surchg. $2.50
Ground Residental $67.39 Total=$79.13 !!!
Yes, I felt I was ripped & plan a complaint. The buyer was an ACE & covered the shipping in full (God bless him). Yet, I have a LOUSEY taste in my mouth & feeling of having been screwed. I was there 45min past closing so as she said "I'll take good care of you."
I had a YAMAHA electric drum set shipped via the U.S. Postal service THAT COST 1/2 AS MUCH. I hope my 2 cents helps you and every one else out. 1) I had GREAT fortune w/ Craig's List 2) no ebay fees.
***Use PayPal & expect the buyer to file it as a purchase of goods. In this way BOTH U & HE are PROTECTED. It only costs 2.9% of total for PayPal AND YOU get your money deposited almost instantaneously.
Hope this helps. Happy Holiday to all. Regards, Don.

 

[dontaylor]

Ps concerning the 244 repair . . .

I Can't thank you ALL enough for this great thread ! I too, have BOTH a 144& 244 whose rubber capstain turned to gooo. And yes, I cried. I'm not only a sentimental fool but, I saw $842.00 "1980 Dollars" & literally 100's of hours of recording liquify b-4 my very eyes. When I turned to my 244, for which I had traded a Leslie in 1983...it too died the same dreadful way. In seconds I saw a lifetime of dreams & memories of how I made my solo keyboard act sound like an entire Doo Wop group or Disco Dynasty...melt away like my ex-wife should have.
Now I have the knowledge to repair, recondition and hold in reserve JUST IN CASE I can't get my 2488neo's overwelming
"how to's" into my old brain.
Right or wrong: Those Portastudios were so EASY & FUN to use !!! Wire 'em up...take a level reading...press RECORD & PLAY and rock-n-roll.
thanks again. Don

 

[Tom Overthere]

TOM, Recently I sold my "pride & joy" CAT SRM thru Craig's List...AVOID UPS!

I had a YAMAHA electric drum set shipped via the U.S. Postal service THAT COST 1/2 AS MUCH.

I had GREAT fortune w/ Craig's List 2) no ebay fees.

Use PayPal & expect the buyer to file it as a purchase of goods. In this way BOTH U & HE are PROTECTED. It only costs 2.9% of total for PayPal AND YOU get your money deposited almost instantaneously.

Hey, Don ==

Thanks a lot for the detailed UPS warning, and congrats on selling your gear. Recently I bought an electric guitar online, but wasn't thrilled with it upon arrival. In trying to decide whether to send it back or not (at my expense) I took it to the local UPS depot. The clerk quoted $19 which seemed high but I figured it was my cheapest option. When I returned the next day with the guitar+RMA all packed up (same as before) the cost magically increased to $29.00. 50% higher! Luckily, I dealt with the same clerk both times, and he was cornered into sending the parcel for the $19 fee.

I did not know USPS could accommodate parcels the size and weight of a Portastudio 244, but thanks to your comments I'll visit the post office first, should a sale occur. Also, I wasn't really thinking of Craig's List as a long-distance possibility. I figured it was only good for local sales, so will rethink that, as well.

Thanks also for the advice on structuring Paypal transactions. I dislike Paypal for their anti-firearm policies, but may have to break my own rule in the interest of secure transactions all around.

Belated Happy Easter or Kosher Passover to you, too.

 

[Tom Overthere]

I Can't thank you ALL enough for this great thread ! I too, have BOTH a 144& 244 whose rubber capstain turned to gooo. When I turned to my 244, it too died the same dreadful way. In seconds I saw a lifetime of dreams & memories of how I made my solo keyboard act sound like an entire Doo Wop group or Disco Dynasty...melt away like my ex-wife should have.

HaHa. I have an ex-wife, too. As Bubba Clinton used to say, "Ah feel yer pain."

I located both cassettes containing my 244 demos (the full extent of my work with the 244). Six compositions, some unfinished. I have an eight channel firewire preamp for my PC (Presonus FireStudio Project), and have run the 4 tape outs directly from the 244 to the FireStudio Channel INs 5, 6, 7 and 8. The signals dump onto 4 tracks in Sony Acid Pro 7, where I'll embelish them, add more tracks and finally mix everything down (eventually). Once I complete these simple analog to digital transfers, I'll crate up the 244 and attempt to sell it (in a week or so).

I agree with you, the Portastudio is a GREAT tool, and lots of people have good archived work recorded on them. An excellent reason to repair them, or just buy mine

 

[cjacek]

Don't waste your time with the UPS Store (expensive & staffed by incompetence, for the most part). Do all the boxing yourself and I'd highly recommend FedEx ground. It's still better than the rest but nothing beats good packing, one which withstands pretty severe handling.

Tom, I would like to recommend something tho..... If you go to U-Haul, they should have something like a double walled TV box, usually 24x24x20. If you then do a couple of layers of foam wrap and then finish the 244 off with another very thick layer of large bubble wrap, so that you have a good 4" or more of it on each side, tightly wrapped and then place more stuff at the bottom and top to fill it all out, then I think it'll be fine. It'll save money on shipping and it'll actually be safely packed. Point being that the first foam wrap dulls / nulls the sharp points of the 244 case and the thick large bubble wrap gives a spring like shock absorption. Point is to give it a lot of "give" during drops, shocks etc... so make sure you wrap the hell out of it. A bit of a hint with the AC cable. I usually let it out and away from the unit, just wrap the tip with some foam. Just a thought with regard to some effective, less time consuming, inexpensive packing.

 

[Tom Overthere]

Dan ==

Thanks to your suggestion, I will look for a local U-Haul location to see what that double-walled box costs. I am 100% in accord with your ideas on multi-layer, multi-density packing - and my plan is to provide a "double wall" by packing the plywood crate inside an external cardboard box (with flex material between the two). Your further comments do call to my attention the need for a very flexible layer of padding, either in contact with the 244, or between the crate and the outer box. Either location will do, so long as the flex layer isolates the 244 from hard external blows.

Ahhh, great minds think alike!

I should be able to make my "boxed crate" for nothing, though. Lots of scap laying about...

And I will leave the AC cord loose. Thanks for that tip, as well.

 

[iqi616]

Unlikely electrical problem. The capstan belt has stretched to the point that it's riding on the outer metal ring and slowing things down. The belt has now either totally slipped off or, worst case, turned to goo.

As I said before, most problems related to these well built beasts is just bad belts, idlers and pinch roller (all rubber related). If one goes, it makes sense to replace all, because they're not far behind.

Feel free to update us on your findings.

Well, I ordered the belt kit from http://www.vintage-electronics.cc/tascamkits.html. It took a couple of weeks to reach Ottawa - probably because of shipping over the Easter break. The drive belt worked great but that other narrow belt was a tad loose and couldn't control the speed so I just swapped back to the original which is still good and tight. I'm back in action, I got a stack of CD-Rs so I can burn my tapes to WAV.

I don't know if it's a first-love kind of thing but I still miss recording on the 244. It might just because I didn't know what I was doing so I just got on with it but recording was quicker and easier even with bouncing. Ever since then I've been trying to get the technology out of the way of the music.

 

[cjacek]

I'm glad things worked out for ya. Too bad about that control belt. Kinda makes you want to order from TEAC next time.

TEAC CANADA LTD.
5939 Wallace St.
Mississauga, Ontario
L4Z 1Z8
P: (905) 890-8008 ext. 118
F: (905) 890-9888
Email: parts@teac-ca.com

Parts Department (California, USA office):
voice: (323) 727-4840
fax: (323) 727-7632
e-mail: parts@teac.com

I love my 244. It's the only tracking tool I use now. Simple and sounds great.

 

[Tom Overthere]

Well, I ordered the belt kit from http://www.vintage-electronics.cc/tascamkits.html.
...that other narrow belt was a tad loose and couldn't control the speed ...

Hey, Mike. I tried a minor correspondence with that guy after the sale. Zero response. So I assume asking him for assistance in resolving your issue would return zero satisfaction. Sorry to hear this, but glad you worked around it. I'm kinda sorry I recommended Vintage Electronics so highly (though both my belts worked fine).

...I still miss recording on the 244. It might just because I didn't know what I was doing so I just got on with it but recording was quicker and easier even with bouncing. Ever since then I've been trying to get the technology out of the way of the music.

I never really meshed with the 244. I was accustomed to my open-reel decks and didn't use the 244 much, so every time I turned it on I had to keep flipping switches until I finally got the sound to come out where I wanted it. Duh! Maybe due to my own Density issues, or maybe I wasn't the only one...

At present, I am SWAMPED by technology. My 'learning curve' is more like standing at the foot of a sheer cliff. I'm not even sure I have any music left in me at this point, but am determined to overcome the technology, just as you are. The damned equipment (software and/or hardware) can easily 'shapeshift' if you're not careful. Instead of being a tool you learn in order to create something, the tool or the process becomes THE ENTIRE FOCUS. I hate how easily that happens. It's insidious.

I am determined to maintain proportion and perspective - to learn to use these tools, and then USE them, without focusing on them any more than is absolutely necessary (maybe).

CONGRATULATIONS ON REPAIRING YOUR MACHINE!

 

[Tom Overthere]

Too bad about that control belt. Kinda makes you want to order from TEAC next time.

Not sure if this is still the case, but when I ordered my parts, TEAC did not have the belts in stock. They were expected in 30 - 60 days, and were not TEAC original parts. Clearly the belts don't need to be TEAC-made in order to be of good quality. I only mention it to make clear that there's no particular advantage in buying the belts from TEAC.

That said, I absolutely would have ordered everything from TEAC in the form of a single order if it had been possible. TEAC's price for the belts was about the same as Vintage Electronics', and if I could have included all parts in one order I would have avoided the additional shipping cost from VE (and would have enjoyed the security of ordering directly from the mfr, as cjacek suggests).

 

[iqi616]

I'm glad things worked out for ya. Too bad about that control belt. Kinda makes you want to order from TEAC next time.

TEAC CANADA LTD.
5939 Wallace St.
Mississauga, Ontario
L4Z 1Z8
P: (905) 890-8008 ext. 118
F: (905) 890-9888
Email: parts@teac-ca.com

Parts Department (California, USA office):
voice: (323) 727-4840
fax: (323) 727-7632
e-mail: parts@teac.com

I love my 244. It's the only tracking tool I use now. Simple and sounds great.

If only the 244 had virtual tracks! I'm not a single-take kinda player.

Thanks for those addresses.

 

[iqi616]

Hey, Mike. I tried a minor correspondence with that guy after the sale. Zero response. So I assume asking him for assistance in resolving your issue would return zero satisfaction. Sorry to hear this, but glad you worked around it. I'm kinda sorry I recommended Vintage Electronics so highly (though both my belts worked fine).


I never really meshed with the 244. I was accustomed to my open-reel decks and didn't use the 244 much, so every time I turned it on I had to keep flipping switches until I finally got the sound to come out where I wanted it. Duh! Maybe due to my own Density issues, or maybe I wasn't the only one...

At present, I am SWAMPED by technology. My 'learning curve' is more like standing at the foot of a sheer cliff. I'm not even sure I have any music left in me at this point, but am determined to overcome the technology, just as you are. The damned equipment (software and/or hardware) can easily 'shapeshift' if you're not careful. Instead of being a tool you learn in order to create something, the tool or the process becomes THE ENTIRE FOCUS. I hate how easily that happens. It's insidious.

I am determined to maintain proportion and perspective - to learn to use these tools, and then USE them, without focusing on them any more than is absolutely necessary (maybe).

CONGRATULATIONS ON REPAIRING YOUR MACHINE!

I've not had much contact with reel to reel. When I did it was a bit of a nuisance. The Tascam ones were okay but a friend had the Fostex 80 (or something) and I wasn't very impressed - there was more cross-talk and no better recording quality than the 244. I am of the opinion that the multitrack cassettes never actually got any better than the 244 except maybe the tascams with the 6 channel mixer. I was a hardware designer so those switches were no mystery to me (sorry if that sounds smug). I look at my 244 and I still get that warm and fuzzy feeling I had when I laid out 700 quid for it in 1985. I still enjoy my Korg D1600 and to a large extent it's the digital 244 that it's competitors weren't but I don't get that same mood. When I've finished backing up all my multitrack tapes, I think I'll keep the 244 out to help put me in a good mood for making music.

I was struck by a comment from Elton John - I think it's on the GBYBR Classic Albums DVD. He was complaining about how much longer it takes to do things in digital. I think he's right but I don't think it's the gear's fault. It's the loss of the approach where you get the music sorted-out up-front and then slap it down. Where you have to get the part right in a couple of takes instead of a dozen. I used to be the drop-in king on my 244 but I rarely do that in digital even though I know it's quicker than editing afterwards.

 

[Tom Overthere]

Good points, all. I agree that the 244 had excellent specs in its day (and still sounds VERY GOOD). I had purchased outboard dbx for my reel-to-reel TEAC A3340S. I was amazed to learn that the dbx was built into the 244 (those outboard dbx units weren't cheap!)

And I had a Tascam Model 5 mixer (8x4) that did not have sweepable EQ centers like the 244.


The 244's signal-to-noise spec was good and the dynamic range was also good - enough that, like you, I took the plunge. I was very satisfied with its performance, but just couldn't stop dreaming about an 80-8, or my real desire, that 1" 16-track Tascam reel-to-reel machine they made back in the 1980s...sniff .

Good point about oldschool analog multitracking "simplicity" actually resulting from better preparation and perhaps better chops. I agree.

 

[dontaylor]

Hello Tom , Well it's may 12 & I'm sorry for not answering sooner--I lost this thread's URL. I have it amoung my Favs, but that group is about a city block long. That other fella who gave us the UHAUL box suggestion--Who wouldv'e known ? I know, someone who bought moving material when THEY were moving, Daaaaaaaaaa.
Back to Teac: I do plan on TRYING to repair those 2 babys of mine-when i get aBOUT 39 other things around the house.
I had a quiet easter, thanks for your good wishes.
I'm just waiting to get into a more positive physical & mental state so I can begin to again record and put it up on U-Tube !!
Hell if ?_Beibor can do it & be discovered there's a chance that w/ enough of a disquise, I may set the block on fire. LOL
What's that kid's name "Gary"...the Beaver-Cleaver ???
Where did he "Pay his dues" like all of us have ?????
Lucky bastard had his Mommy video-taping him whiile he performed whereas I had mine yelling--"turn it down !!!"
I wish there was a way to get contacted when someone posts me !! Hery, I'm not the most wantd list if someone needs a good laugh-catch me on My Space:
https://www.youtube.com/user/donscaptvideo
or You Tube: dontaylorjr; or verse visa .
Enjoy and have a dry & haoppy summmer. I can't b elieve I am straight & type like this !!