Mic pricing plummeting

Birdhouse said:
"If you come from the analog "old school" of recording, you'll enter digital recording with a greater understanding of the dynamics that digital attempts to only emulate."

Where did I say analog knowledge was superior? ;)

I said greater understanding of the dynamics... you read it as superior.
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now if i wanted to go all "activist"..... when you say "If you come from the analog "old school" of recording, you'll enter digital recording with a greater understanding of the dynamics that digital attempts to only emulate."...i can take that to mean that those of us who started using digital first dont know as much about dynamics as the old schoolers and that all we can do is imitate you. thus we are less knowledgable and not as smart which makes us inferior. you never said you were superior, but it can be implied.
 
now the thing is. I'm sure you've been at this for years or possibly decades. and that alone should make you a higher ranking engineer (not superior). your knowledge can be transferred to many mediums but the one you use most is probably analog. with that being said, analog seems to be your weapon of choice and when you say comments like "dynamics that digital attempts to only emulate." it becomes condescending. on the other hand, i'm sure it offends you when one of us youngins asks "what was life like before cds?" or "whats a laser disc and why is it so big?" or "you mean to tell me that at one time people played nothing but pac-man?"
 
I guess this is my point. Some noobies aren't aware of analog recording theroy at all. This is where that old school knowledge crosses over and helps the next generation build a better mousetrap.
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Anyone having honed their skill on analog systems learned to work with and compensate for things like excessive noise floor, and limited headroom/ dynamic range of their equipment in order to extract the best from it. This, imo, is useful knowledge in the way one would approach recording with digital gear. Because of the enormous developments in technology the same limitations with equipment really don’t apply, but the systematic approach in the way one would solve problems associated with a digital system does.

I’m not sure, though, that old school knowledge would be much of an advantage to new school recordists. The two platforms are certainly different in the way the source is translated and stored, but the entire work process is the same. Digital overs (from exceeding 0dBfs) are entirely more drastic than tape reaching saturation, but the methods for preventing these problems are the same. So while there are significant differences, the motions to get the source recorded remain the same, and one could migrate from one platform to the other only needing to overcome a slight learning curve. In other words, the process is transparent.
 
chessparov said:
One story, read recently, is how Tom Dowd was having a discussion regarding the SM57, with other AE's. After some of them dissed it,
he deliberately miked a track COMPLETELY with 57's.
Lead vocal, all instrumental backing, the whole nine yards.

The recording then won the Grammy for best engineered!
(don't know the name of the exact track-yet)

Ain't the wand, it's the wizard IMHO.

Not being a "Tom Dowd" though:), some mics are much easier for me to deal with. Due to my limitations.

Chris
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So you think he EQ'd the Sh*t out of them to make them sound good? I think so! Phil Collins was in love with the Beyer 88 :eek:
 
My dad (now retired) was an engineer for CBS/Sony for thirty odd years. Six years ago when I got my first publishing deal, I pre-ordered a Digi001, borrowed some good mics from my dad (Neumann u-87's) and thought I was set to go. I invited the old man over to see my setup. He took one look at it and said, "You're not gonna get sh*t in here." (He's always been supportive like that)

I said, "Why not? Great mics- 24 bit digital interface, what?"

"It's this room. It sounds like crap. It sounds like a bedroom."

"Well, I'll digitally re-create a good room."

"Then you'll have what sounds like a bedroom set up in a cathedral or concert hall. It'll just sound weird."

I went ahead anyway and started recording. Do I have to tell you all that he was right? And that's just the tracking! The mixes were even worse!

Every couple of weeks I'd visit the old man with my mixes. And lots of questions. Here are some of his answers (I'll let you guys guess the questions):

"Well, you played like crap. What'd you think it was gonna sound like?"

"The drums sound like cereal boxes because there's not enough space (in the room) for them to breathe."

"You're losing all your bass frequencies in that room. Your fillings will be rattling when you play this on another system."

I could go on and on, but my point is that with good mics, pre's, converters etc. you are going to get a very accurate picture of what your doing. If your shortcomings are a bad room, bad playing, bad mic technique, then you are going to get pristine recordings of your bad room, bad playing, timing etc.

It's been six years since I started my own studio. My music is used in the background of daytime TV shows and industrial films. It has been a long, laborious and ego bruising process. And, let me tell you, I still have a long, long way to go.


PS, I recently had a client come to me. She was a classical pianist. She had some "demos" that she'd made herself using a Sony minidisc recorder and a RadioShack stereo mic. She did the recording in a church on their Steinway. It sounded incredible.

"How the hell did you do this?" She seemed a little embarrassed when I asked her.

"Well, I moved the mic around till it sounded good."

We used the demo's.
 
My dad (now retired) was an engineer for CBS/Sony for thirty odd years. Six years ago when I got my first publishing deal, I pre-ordered a Digi001, borrowed some good mics from my dad (Neumann u-87's) and thought I was set to go. I invited the old man over to see my setup. He took one look at it and said, ...
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Busboy, your post should be framed and hung on my wall.

Every time I learn something from having re-invented the wheel I look back and realize that I had already been given excellent advice that would have gotten me to the same or maybe a better place. Maybe it's an inevitable creative process for some of us. Maybe the justice of it is that then in turn, as time goes on, we'll be ignored by those less experienced.

Makes me think of John Sebastian's song, Younger Generation:

And then I'll know that all I've learned my kid assumes
And all my deepest worries become his cartoons
And still I'll try to tell him all the things I've done
Relating to what he can do when he becomes a man
But still he'll stick his fingers in the fan

Best Regards,
Tim
 
distortedrumble said:
now if i wanted to go all "activist"..... when you say "If you come from the analog "old school" of recording, you'll enter digital recording with a greater understanding of the dynamics that digital attempts to only emulate."...i can take that to mean that those of us who started using digital first dont know as much about dynamics as the old schoolers and that all we can do is imitate you. thus we are less knowledgable and not as smart which makes us inferior. you never said you were superior, but it can be implied.
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Hey.. guess what... you can LEARN about analog. Read some books on the subject and you'll have a broader knowledge base.

I'm not responsible for how you interpret posts. :D
 
Bob's Mods said:
Gee...I wish I lived on Maui.
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I grew up on Oahu...

The question being asked here is a can of worms, as far as I'm concerned. Everytime you make any kind of comparison between budget gear and high-end gear, the knives come out.

Good luck.
 
Busyboy, that's one of the best reminders I've ever seen. Your Dad obviously knew then, what you and I are learning now. All of our focus on equipment is fun and easy, but it's not the biggest issue--by far.

Thanks,

J.
 
...well just as a reminder :rolleyes: here's the original question again...

"what do you think of the proliferation of cheap mics into the market?"
 
Birdhouse,

You're right. I apologise. But man, do you know how to start a thread! I think the proliferation of inexpensive mics is great. For us older guys, who remember the days of singing into school tape recorders, it's incredible that this stuff exists at this price point. I go into schools with a laptop and a Rhode and do songwriting/production workshops. Are we making "professional" grade recordings? Well, no, but these kids are having a great experience documenting their art. Many of these kids have gone home to produce their own songs in GarageBand. Who knows where that could lead them?

I think it's great that this level of recording gear is available to so many. Now we can all work on our technique.
 
...well just as a reminder here's the original question again...

"what do you think of the proliferation of cheap mics into the market?"
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It's created a lot of work for merchandising copy writers that churn out all the product descriptions for the catalogs. And for reviewers.

Access to cheap mics I think has fostered a lot of self expression and creativity in people who'd never go into a studio, and developing out of that is the community involvment in a BBS like this one. Lets people cocoon and collaborate at the same time. Wouldn't happen without cheap gear.

The large number of people interested in cheap mic's is a good thing too if it's creating a feeder system for higher quality gear. Just look at the no. of views that any thread mentioning cheap gear in the subject line gets here.

It's not unlike what happened with guitars in the US after instruments started being imported from the Orient. You know the progression... prices moved lower and lower as manufacturers found progressively cheaper labor in a succession of countries. High end US manufacturers added low end lines made off-shore. etc., etc.

I have mic's spanning the price spectrum but I still get a thrill from trying new cheap mics that sound good.

Tim
 
It's not unlike what happened with guitars in the US after instruments started being imported from the Orient. You know the progression... prices moved lower and lower ...
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But instead of being fueled by the British Invasion, it's fueled by the audio capability of the ubiquitous home computer.

Tim
 
interesting post for sure. I'm in a small room, I wonder if my drums are suffering, probably....of course, you could listen to them....but then again, perfect or excellent, or way above average sound quality isn't everything. And for the mass of casual listeners, they don't know the difference IF - big IF - the performance is great.

I'm sure you have learned, since you seem successful, is that there is a balance between the 2 goals, one of the best possible audio quality, and the best ability to enable a great performance. That's true with big studios and home studios; like total security, it's only an ideal.

And I'm glad to see cheap mics, I have about ten of them and it's because of the cheap mics that I've learned the difference between different types of mic. When I get my hands on an expensive mic, at least I'll know what type it is and some idea of how it works.
 
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