Mic pricing plummeting

B

Birdhouse

New member
I was just wondering...
I'm 45, live on Maui and I've been into recording in one form or other since about 1972.

I'm finally getting around to the stage in my life where I can have a studio all to myself. I have one in a cottage in my front yard. I love it. I have a modest computer audio workstation and several instruments. I play bass & drums in a band so the studio is mostly for that.
I have a few mics... and when I went shopping for them, I was so surprised by the prices!!
The best one is my Behringer B2 Pro. Also two MXL 990's and a few cheap dynamic mics.

I see stuff like this...
http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--MSEV57M
.....and my jaw drops.
It's an MXL mic that looks :eek: a bit like a Nuemann TLM-193...

...which you'll see by clicking this link costs a lot more BUT produces much better recordings.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...Iq2QiUXzilMAnDklFuR/befree_site_id=0040952980


So the question to other recording peeps that are from the old school of it all when a good tube mic cost an arm & a leg even for an entry level one and everything was on tape...what do you think of the proliferation of cheap mics into the market?


Me?? I think it's a two edged sword. It's good that they have become affordable, but the quality is usually poor by comparison to a $1000+ microphone.

There is something to be said about working and saving for a mic of a higher caliber. (working and saving here) Once acquired a mic like that is cherished and used with care and thought.

Dime-a-dozen mics allow anybody to record anything. So there's a lot of "studios" out there all of a sudden and everyone is a sound engineer just because they own Pro Tools a computer and a mic!

I saw a similar syndrome in the desktop publishing days of the late 80's. Lots of people that ran out and bought a Mac and some software and called themselves graphic designers... when in fact they did not have a clue.

Out of all that came a whole new kind of artist.I was one of them. ;)

I think it's all good. Cheap accessable gear allows more people to explore the world of making and recording music and that is awesome!

But... I think, in say, another 5 years, many peeps will sell their gear and the wave will be over and what will be left are consumers that want quality first. A manufacturer can only sell a certain amount of cheap hardware. Saturation in the market will occur and all these cheap mics will be replaced by better products for a little more or possibly the same.

Of course I could just be full of shite but hey.. what do YOU think. I'm curious. :confused:

I've probably offended somebody :( with all this but I'll say again.. I own low to mid priced gear myself. It's all I can afford at present but it gets my music recorded.

I believe it's what you have as a musician/engineer first and foremost that will determine your success. :cool:

like the signature says...
 
I've never worked with real high end gear.. except guitars. I can say I have some Korean import guitars that are of higher quality than some of the old vintage Gibsons I've had.

Price is an odd thing, I was geeked when I could afford an AT3035 at $199, sounded great. Recently I got a Rode Nt1,, Wow,, what a nice sound,, I'm sure a Neuman is great, but $2000 better? for a mic? Not me, even if I could afford it.

I learned with the high end guitars, it's not what you use, it's what you put into it.


Your milage may vary.
 
Having just spent $1200 on a mic I can safely say "Yeah. it's better". It's a lot better, that doesn't mean my others aren't still good, it's merely that it is noticeably better.
Each new piece of gear I acquire now is well thought out and purchased ONLY when I get to a point that I can "hear" something I can't do with what I've got.
My "bang for the buck" this month was a couple rncs. They are cheap AND great!
 
traveen said:
I've never worked with real high end gear.. except guitars. I can say I have some Korean import guitars that are of higher quality than some of the old vintage Gibsons I've had.

Price is an odd thing, I was geeked when I could afford an AT3035 at $199, sounded great. Recently I got a Rode Nt1,, Wow,, what a nice sound,, I'm sure a Neuman is great, but $2000 better? for a mic? Not me, even if I could afford it.

I learned with the high end guitars, it's not what you use, it's what you put into it.


Your milage may vary.
Click to expand...

Once you can afford it you'll probably change your mind.
 
traveen said:
I can say I have some Korean import guitars that are of higher quality than some of the old vintage Gibsons I've had.
Click to expand...


Thats the stupdist thing I have ever heard on this forum.

H2H
 
Hey, Birdhouse. Old school here, too. 43 and have been in pro studios since '77. Used everything...Neve, SSL, Neumann....you name it...even Publison.

Audio-Technica came out with the 4033 and the 4050 in the early '90's. Røde came out with the Classic a bit later. Those were the first mics that offered an alternative to expensive European condenser mics.

Look, I come from an age where only 15 years ago if you wanted to get into serious multi-track recording - even a midrange 24-track deck like an Otari MTR90 would run you $90,000. And that's just the deck...you still needed a console, outboard, mics.... Now there's RADAR and all kinds of PC-based options. I run Nuendo on a Mac G4, representing a total cost of about $5,000. That's peanuts.

I could be working at a Neve/Studer studio this very minute. But you know what? I have absolutely no desire to be doing that. I've got a great studio in my house. I've got a some nice pres, nice mic selection. I can work on my own time and with whom I chose.

Times are changing: Ray Charles, who's CD "Genius Loves Company" just won a bunch of Grammys, used an ADK TT on his vocals - a $900 Chinese-made mic. And he and his engineers could have used whatever they wanted. 22 ADK mics were used on that CD.

I can use any mics I want, too. I've just had a Sony C800G in here, and I'm probably going to figure out a way to buy one - 'cause I gotta have one. But I have other excellent mics, many of them costing well under $1000 that I use all the time.

If even seen George Massenburg state that he wouldn't pay the kind of prices needed to get some of the coveted "vintage" mics. He thinks - and I agree - that there's just too many good mics on the market today.

I agree with you that manufacturers can only sell so much cheap hardware. I've been having some conversations concerning that with several people recently. We're about 2-5 years into the everybody-and-his-brother-has-a-studio craze. Everyone went out and bought $200 mics and a cheap pre. But now we're seeing those same people wanting something more than just cheap or mid-level performance. More people are starting to look into the kinds of mics pres they can get just north of $1000. There are mics that run between $500 - $1500 that are absolutely gorgeous.

I wouldn't sell all this affordable gear short. And I wouldn't sell the people using it short, either. Recording is no longer the domain of the privileged few. Great mics are no longer only made by a few select manufacturers.
 
Hard2Hear said:
Thats the stupdist thing I have ever heard on this forum.

H2H
Click to expand...

... why, because the gibsons cost more?.... seriously they often use very similar woods and the main difference is just in the labour making it... who's to say someone in a sweat shop isn't a brilliant luthier?

with guitars some of the cheap guitars are amazing... and some are the worst thing you'll ever play... the more expensive you go the less variation there is between individual instruments
 
You both paint with a broad stroke. I've played good and bad guitars and while the odds tip in favor of a brand name, I've played some Sigmas that sound better than some Martins. From this I wouldn't say Sigma is better than Martin. I'vd played some Samicks that are better than a Les Paul and some Squires that are better than Strats.
I've yet to hear one of my AT's or Rodes or Senns or Evs come close to my Brauner. I don't think there is an analogy to be made here.
I use all these mics and they serve their purpose, but you just can't compare them.
 
I'm 43 and am still amazed at the quality of my <$300 Event PS6 monitors (used), $100 RODE NT3 mic (clearance), and TASCAM US122, and how much that capability would have cost me twenty years ago.

I was a big stereo head back in the day (still am but a little more mature about it). And like then, if 100 is perfect you can get to 80 for $X, 90 for 10x$X, 95 for 100x$X, etc. Fortunately 80 is good enough for me to have fun and share my music with friends. 90 would be good enough for getting paid to record local talent.

I'm amazed how much you can do for so little.
 
Birdhouse said:
I saw a similar syndrome in the desktop publishing days of the late 80's. Lots of people that ran out and bought a Mac and some software and called themselves graphic designers... when in fact they did not have a clue.
Click to expand...


That's actually a very god and fitting analogy.
 
I don't get the chance to play around with cheap mics as much as I would like to. I'd love to try out some SE and ADK mics for a bit. There is definitely a glut of recordists and "music" these days due to the inexpensive digital technology.

It seems to me that the lowend of the lowend stuff sounds pretty mediocre at best. These very low end mics look really cool but sound "wrong". It seams that if you pony up a few more bucks you can get some great sounding stuff. I don't think most of the people I work for could tell a difference between most of the stuff.

I'm thinking indie video is the next thing to become affordable to the masses. A good friend of mine recently gave me a tour of the new gear they got at his job. It's pretty impressive what they create with video and quite shocking how inexpensive you can shoot and edit these days. There are some major Hollywood releases using just desktops and off the shelf software for movies.

Give it some time and you'll see everyone making movies and recording their own scores
 
Birdhouse—sorry to hijack your thread old man, but a couple of comments on cheap guitars deserve some attention.

In many years of playing and repairing guitars I’ve never, not even once, found a Squire or Samick that feels or sounds better than a Strat or Les Paul, or a Sigma that feels or sounds better than a Martin. Most of the Sigma’s have laminated tops, sides, and backs that simply cannot sound as good as solid wood—it doesn’t matter if the action is an inch off the fingerboard, the frets are worn flat, and the neck is held at the joint with superglue. If materials and workmanship are not comparable, as with Bruaner and most Chinese-manufactured mics, one is going to be an inferior product. But atrocious setups are on great instruments everywhere, and some people confuse this with craftsmanship. Stringed instruments need constant adjustments, and if they’re neglected playability will suffer.

Also, the point was made that “the more expensive you go the less variation between instruments.” Actually, the opposite is true. There is a good deal of variation between each instrument in a handmade guitar, whereas CNC manufactured guitars all have very close tolerances. Pick up any of the Samicks and you’ll find them all the same. It’s all one big homogenous mess, imo. This is not a bad thing for business or the consumer, but it's one of the things that turns me off about these guitars. I used to be a big advocate for Paul Reed Smith until he changed his manufacturing process. Did this change make his guitars better? In my opinion it did not, but it did make the quality between each instrument closer. And btw, there are no brilliant luthiers at CNC plants. :)
 
Well said. So we can put that to rest now? :rolleyes:

I recorded some music last evening with a guitar player. I played bass. We did a couple hours of jammin with no drummer. Great fun, helps to refine meter and I got to try out the MXL 990's a bit more. I paid $50 each for these and I had my doubts. :rolleyes:

I used them to mic a Mesa Boggie blasting the main guitar signal and a Dean Markley amping the second looped signal. (a la Robert Frip)Two amps, one guitar. I placed the mics about 18" from the speakers and the results aren't to bad for $100 investment. A little peaky in the 5k - 10k area and a rather flat sound in the highs. The mids and lows had more depth. I get a more dynamic sound from my Behringer B2-Pro. It's more balanced.

I could do way better than this little Chinese pair, BUT we got a good stereo recording. We listened back with the bass direct signal mixed in and liked what we had played. We just listened with no desire to EQ anything really, it sounded fine. Next time we'll be inspired even more for hearing it.

That's one of the small benefits of cheap mics I guess. :cool:
 
Bravo Dot!!!!

Very well said. I, too, remember when there was no such thing as "entry level recording gear" and people making high quality recordings at home on their computers was such an outrageous idea that it simply couldn't even be imagined. We are very fortunate, indeed, to have access to recording gear of such outstanding quality at such user-friendly prices.

Brad
 
Of the dozens of variously priced mics here that I've used for years,
I r-e-a-l-l-y love my Lawson L47, c414, and my two 452eb's.
 
I've been going through alot of the cheap chinese mics and immediately, they were an improvment in my recordings over most (not all) dynamic mics. Then I started modifying them. -A little better! Changing parts and electronics. -Even better! Hmmmm...

Then I learned my greatest lesson. Three little words: TUBE-TUBE-TUBE. Save a little more money and get a tube mic. The difference is night and day. The solid state chinese mics have a harsh, brittle sound which isn't there in tube mics. I bought an Apex 460, installed a Telefunken 12AT7 tube (you HAVE to do this), and WOW!! Total cost was less than $300. I know, I know "It still not the same as a Neumann". That horse is beaten to dust.

I could probably afford to save up for a Neumann, Lawson, AKG c12VR or whatever. Then I could put it on the table every night in front of my kids and we could admire it and our empty plates. If $300 can get me pretty close to what I want. Fine!! I'm not paying $4000 to go from 85-90% to 100%. (If this offends your opinion, please re-examine where your career is.)
 
PhilGood said:
I could probably afford to save up for a Neumann, Lawson, AKG c12VR or whatever. Then I could put it on the table every night in front of my kids and we could admire it and our empty plates. If $300 can get me pretty close to what I want. Fine!! I'm not paying $4000 to go from 85-90% to 100%. (If this offends your opinion, please re-examine where your career is.)
Click to expand...

Sage advice for most home recordists. Good one. :)
 
The guitar thing

My Dad has an old Yamaki folk. Its a dreadnaught made in the early seventies. I've played a D-50 and several other high end dreads (including a Santa Cruz) and although all of these guitars sound great, have excellent balance and show incredible craftsmanship, that Yamaki (with a repaired neck break, buzzing frets and a visible bow in the sound board) keeps drawing me back. The thing about a (acoustic) guitar is that it's sound and character grows and changes with age; I don't think the same can be said for mics.
 
One story, read recently, is how Tom Dowd was having a discussion regarding the SM57, with other AE's. After some of them dissed it,
he deliberately miked a track COMPLETELY with 57's.
Lead vocal, all instrumental backing, the whole nine yards.

The recording then won the Grammy for best engineered!
(don't know the name of the exact track-yet)

Ain't the wand, it's the wizard IMHO.

Not being a "Tom Dowd" though:), some mics are much easier for me to deal with. Due to my limitations.

Chris
 
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