Mastering engineers, help me~

You gotta give him props for a pretty mild reaction to his first encounter with insane people.
Newbies usually have a complete meltdown that first time!

:D:D:D
Hehe...he just might be having that meltdown. He hasn't posted since his OP. I think he's in therapy, as we all should be.

:D
 
I think he's in therapy, as we all should be.
Hey, speak for yourself. All 17 of my personalities are perfectly sane.

The only insane one here is the one using the phrase, "that loudness that determines quality".

Then again, maybe I'm being unfair; that may not be insanity, it could be just extreme tinnitus.

G.
 
In all honesty, I suspect this is more a question of venacular and lingo than insanity.

I suspect what the OP really meant to say was something along these lines, "My mixes sound good(to me) is there anyone here who can help me get them to sound louder so they compete, on decibel level, on the commercial market?" I don't think he assumes that a loud mix automatically means a quality piece of work.

We are quick to point out exactly how ridiculous these statements sound, without actually trying to look past the lingo, to the meat of the real question.

Not here to pass judgement, just pointing out an observation. On the flipside, soooooo many people come to the forum with some chip on their shoulder, EXPECTING free services/help that other people have to pay for. On top of that, you have an endless supply of noobs asking the same 6 questions over and over again, not accepting the answer that everyone gives them. "You cannot do A without first doing B, end of story." "Yeah, but....." "End of story" "What if I....." "Nope, still wont work." "K, thanks for the advice, but I am gonna do......"

It's no wonder that people get surly with there responses. I am a mason by trade, there is so much more that goes into the craft than; slap/stack some block on top of each other with sum of dat mud in between. But, people don't wanna hear that answer and I get annoyed trying to explain that there are reasons for each step and blah, blah, blah.

We would all be well served if the noobs would use the search function before posting their questions, but alas, we(I am including myself) all want the quick, easy answers to the recording, mixing, and finally mastering phases of the craft. And since there are none....the redundant questioning continues......
 
I am a mason by trade, ...
very cool ... my Dad was a top notch mason and stonesetter. He eventually had his own masonry company ...... all commercial work.
I was around it all my life ........ was a mason-labor during the summers thru college and did various things like run a Lull or Skytrac for him off and on when I needed extra money.
I still kinda miss that smell of mortar in the air.
 
I suspect what the OP really meant to say was something along these lines, "My mixes sound good(to me) is there anyone here who can help me get them to sound louder so they compete, on decibel level, on the commercial market?"
This is not a new argument. The "compete" argument is an old and a completely false argument. The fact remains, that one does not have to remove the song's dynamics to "compete" on any market.

If the listener likes the music or song, they won't care if they have to nudge the volume control, and the radio station won't mind having to nudge a slider on their mixer by a couple of millimeters to play a popular song that attracts listeners. The listeners will want to hear it anyway.

OTOH, if the listeners don't care for the song, the volume is irrelevant; they aren't going to want it no matter how loud it is, and the radio station won't keep it in their rotation just because it means not having to nudge the fader like an actual DJ, if it's not a popular song.

So, no matter how you slice it, lack of dynamic range has absolutely nothing to do with a song's ability to "compete".

G.
 
very cool ... my Dad was a top notch mason and stonesetter. He eventually had his own masonry company ...... all commercial work.
I was around it all my life ........ was a mason-labor during the summers thru college and did various things like run a Lull or Skytrac for him off and on when I needed extra money.
I still kinda miss that smell of mortar in the air.

You and your father both know the meaning of work then! I labored for over 5 years before I got into the BAC union. It's a decent living, but you earn it! If I may ask is your father still alive?
 
This is not a new argument. The "compete" argument is an old and a completely false argument. The fact remains, that one does not have to remove the song's dynamics to "compete" on any market.

If the listener likes the music or song, they won't care if they have to nudge the volume control, and the radio station won't mind having to nudge a slider on their mixer by a couple of millimeters to play a popular song that attracts listeners. The listeners will want to hear it anyway.

OTOH, if the listeners don't care for the song, the volume is irrelevant; they aren't going to want it no matter how loud it is, and the radio station won't keep it in their rotation just because it means not having to nudge the fader like an actual DJ, if it's not a popular song.

So, no matter how you slice it, lack of dynamic range has absolutely nothing to do with a song's ability to "compete".

G.

Glen, I completely agree!

But, I remember not that long ago being completely clueless, and during that time, I didn't realize it was one or the other. I have gone back and listened to old albums on vinyl. There is an amazing amount of life in those old recordings! And you don't get "pushed" away from listening, so many times when listening to cd's now, I just have to walk away, no matter how much I like the band or the music. I didn't realize it was ear fatigue causing me to no longer enjoy the listening process.

I was just saying that these clueless noobs don't understand the art of the craft, they just want their song to "sit" next to their favorite band's with out having to explain to their equally clueless friends why their songs are not as loud.

I admire how much time and energy you have spent (trying) to educate ignorant people...like me!
 
You and your father both know the meaning of work then! I labored for over 5 years before I got into the BAC union. It's a decent living, but you earn it! If I may ask is your father still alive?
No ..... he passed a couple of years ago at age 80.
But I can go around Baton Rouge and see LOTS of big stuff he did ...... including one high rise that had an acre of paving bricks and on these two huge skylights, the pavers went up the curved sides in a herringbone pattern and so the corners where they met were compound curves.

He got the first one up (it was a bitch) and the Architect was standing there looking at it and he told my dad, "That looks great, We had a hell of a time drawing it ..... we weren't sure it could be built!"


:D:D:D
 
This is not a new argument. The "compete" argument is an old and a completely false argument. The fact remains, that one does not have to remove the song's dynamics to "compete" on any market.

If the listener likes the music or song, they won't care if they have to nudge the volume control, and the radio station won't mind having to nudge a slider on their mixer by a couple of millimeters to play a popular song that attracts listeners. The listeners will want to hear it anyway.

OTOH, if the listeners don't care for the song, the volume is irrelevant; they aren't going to want it no matter how loud it is, and the radio station won't keep it in their rotation just because it means not having to nudge the fader like an actual DJ, if it's not a popular song.

So, no matter how you slice it, lack of dynamic range has absolutely nothing to do with a song's ability to "compete".

G.

^ Agreed! I would rather sacrifice loudness to allow any of my mixes to breath! People are way too hung up on the loudness war! :)

Muzza
 
I was just saying that these clueless noobs don't understand the art of the craft, they just want their song to "sit" next to their favorite band's with out having to explain to their equally clueless friends why their songs are not as loud

People are way too hung up on the loudness war! :)
That's just the thing: the only ones who actually want the music crushed are those who know the least about the business.

It's compounded by being a business full of enablers who have no problem taking the money to do the crushing, feigning complaining about it to their fellow members of the choir behind the customer's back while just giving the customer the crap they think they want without saying a word otherwise.

But the main fault has to lie with those who keep irresponsibly repeating the same false, uneducated, anonymous crap to each other over the Internet as if they knew what they were talking about.

G.
 
If the listener likes the music or song, they won't care if they have to nudge the volume control, and the radio station won't mind having to nudge a slider on their mixer by a couple of millimeters to play a popular song that attracts listeners. The listeners will want to hear it anyway.
.

You anti-loudness people keep saying that, but it's obviously just untrue wishful thinking. Loudness aint just some phase. It's been here for quite a while now, and it aint going anywhere. The general public - the people that actually buy music - truly don't care about dynamics or "breathing" or any of that other idealistic mix crap. They care about the perceived loudness being the same from song to song as the skip through their IPod. Only dyed-in-the-wool audiophiles care about "dynamics" - which is totally subjective anyway - and they make up about .0001% of the music buying general public.
 
You anti-loudness people keep saying that, but it's obviously just untrue wishful thinking. Loudness aint just some phase. It's been here for quite a while now, and it aint going anywhere. The general public - the people that actually buy music - truly don't care about dynamics or "breathing" or any of that other idealistic mix crap. They care about the perceived loudness being the same from song to song as the skip through their IPod. Only dyed-in-the-wool audiophiles care about "dynamics" - which is totally subjective anyway - and they make up about .0001% of the music buying general public.
^^^^yup^^^^^
 
The fact I care about the dynamics of my music matters to me. :) Couldn't give a monkey's if they have to turn it up or down or whatever. I'm well aware it's gonna get trashed by someones shitty cheap speakers and 'super woofer blah blah blah expander' feature on their home stereo lol

Muzza.
 
The fact I care about the dynamics of my music matters to me. :) Couldn't give a monkey's if they have to turn it up or down or whatever. I'm well aware it's gonna get trashed by someones shitty cheap speakers and 'super woofer blah blah blah expander' feature on their home stereo lol

Muzza.

That's cool. I can dig it. Make your music however you want. I'm just saying it's way past time for people to get the fuck over the whole "loudness" thing. It's here, it's staying, and you can't do anything about it.
 
Yup that's cool man! I just personally think people chase loudness a bit too much! Nothing wrong with that per se. A lot of folks playing on they're mixes are shit and they want it louder??? go figure!

Muzza
 
Yup that's cool man! I just personally think people chase loudness a bit too much! Nothing wrong with that per se. A lot of folks playing on they're mixes are shit and they want it louder??? go figure!

Muzza
Yes, I definitely have a problem with loud bad mixes. They suck. That's when loudness really goes bad. A mix that aint ready for squashing for loudness just gets worse with every decibel you squeeze out of it. Most novice home recorders do fall into the trap of worrying about being loud before they can even make a somewhat decent mix. But a good mix pushed for loudness can still sound good, and it usually does.
 
Yes, I definitely have a problem with loud bad mixes. They suck. That's when loudness really goes bad. A mix that aint ready for squashing for loudness just gets worse with every decibel you squeeze out of it. Most novice home recorders do fall into the trap of worrying about being loud before they can even make a somewhat decent mix. But a good mix pushed for loudness can still sound good, and it usually does.

Yeah I think we're definitely in agreement there man!
 
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