I run sonar 2.0 on XP and I'm looking to upgrade my soundcard from 2 channels (audiophile 2496) to 8 or so. I don't have a mixer but am trying to decide now whether to dump all my cash into a soundcard or split it between the card and mixer. My question is- how many of you who have a lot of mixing experience would be or are happy now to only do software mixing. I don't have much experience with either. If I pass up a mixer now, spend all my cash on a soundcard w/good preamps will I regret it when I have to do all my mixing in silico? thanks.....
hardware vs software mixing?
- Thread starter monster
- Start date
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Right now - I'm totally unimpressed with digital summing......... I'm happy to stay in the analog mixing world!
eeldip
New member
being able to do a side by side comparison would be good.
summing is a place where a lot of bad stuff can happen. but the question is whether you will be able to realize a benefit of analog summing within your price range. a good 8 channel card is $500+, and you might need two or more of them! a good mixing board will send you back another $1000-$100,000.
i think at the bottom edge of the analog summing ($1000 board and a single $500 8 channel card) you are going to have some mixed gains. fewer channels, but probably a better sound. a much cheaper board and sound card and i think you might have a net loss.
are you willing to lay out that sort of cash?
is there some sort of way to "test" a mixer and a soundcard?
summing is a place where a lot of bad stuff can happen. but the question is whether you will be able to realize a benefit of analog summing within your price range. a good 8 channel card is $500+, and you might need two or more of them! a good mixing board will send you back another $1000-$100,000.
i think at the bottom edge of the analog summing ($1000 board and a single $500 8 channel card) you are going to have some mixed gains. fewer channels, but probably a better sound. a much cheaper board and sound card and i think you might have a net loss.
are you willing to lay out that sort of cash?
is there some sort of way to "test" a mixer and a soundcard?
you guys are the right ones to be talkin with! Here's some more specifics- I've been thinking lately that I was going to go for a delta 1010lt and then couple that with a used mackie 1604 or similar. That's $300 for the card and about $600 for the board. Then I started thinking maybe I'd be better off with using sonar to mix and dumping more money into a better card (but now with good preamps). To keep the comparison fair I'd want this card to cost about the same-let's say $1000. I need to record acoustic drums so I'd like to have 8 ins/outs. I just don't have the experience to be able to make an informed decision on my own. I can always buy an analog mixer later, but it would probably be much later. I'd rather make the decision now and stick with it indefinately...
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
At your budget level neither of those solutions are very good for long term use. I would go with whatever is going to get you where you need to be now.
If in the future you want to pursue a high quality setup you will need better convertors then the Delta, better pres than the delta or mackie and a bigger board for mixdown. A Delta1010/Mackie 1604 combo is a solid home studio setup but I don't think it forces you into an analog mix route. It will probably give you just enough options to do a bit of both.
Either way I would not get a soundcard with preamps. That's the worst of both worlds.
If in the future you want to pursue a high quality setup you will need better convertors then the Delta, better pres than the delta or mackie and a bigger board for mixdown. A Delta1010/Mackie 1604 combo is a solid home studio setup but I don't think it forces you into an analog mix route. It will probably give you just enough options to do a bit of both.
Either way I would not get a soundcard with preamps. That's the worst of both worlds.
monster said:
Hmmm . . . how 'bout a Delta?
Unfortunately, you're not going to find much in the 'under $1000' realm that'll beat it, so that one should be a no-brainer, at least for now. If you happen to stumble upon some more green, you could possibly do better with something along the lines of a Lynx ( http://www.lynxstudio.com/ ). But I wouldn't even bother with soemthing like that unless you're really serious about it, or planning on making it somewhat of a profession.
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
For your price range I'd say go for the best soundcard/converters you can get for the money. I'm not familiar with XP, so I can't advise you in any detail because I don't know what is compatible. But generally speaking, get the best converters you can afford.
So what I'm saying is mix in the box. What matters most is getting the sound in there well, i.e. converters and preamps. Any mixer in your price range is also going to have mix buss issues. So just keep it in the box.
I mix using a combination of in software and hardware. I like working that way, but I also have a lot more invested in my studio than you do. So until you can afford to get a nice hardware mixer you are probably better off mixing in software.
Does the Aardvark Q10 work with XP? I'd look at that one. I think there are a couple preamps built in, as well. I'd trust them more than most PC all in one soundcard makers. I think the Q10 fits your budget too, although I don't know if it is compatible with with Sonar.
So what I'm saying is mix in the box. What matters most is getting the sound in there well, i.e. converters and preamps. Any mixer in your price range is also going to have mix buss issues. So just keep it in the box.
I mix using a combination of in software and hardware. I like working that way, but I also have a lot more invested in my studio than you do. So until you can afford to get a nice hardware mixer you are probably better off mixing in software.
Does the Aardvark Q10 work with XP? I'd look at that one. I think there are a couple preamps built in, as well. I'd trust them more than most PC all in one soundcard makers. I think the Q10 fits your budget too, although I don't know if it is compatible with with Sonar.
eeldip
New member
the presonus firestation i have heard is pretty good. about $100 more than the delta. and it is firewire, which i think is the way to go (more portable at the very least).
i think you might do well with the presonus ($600) which comes with 2 pres. an rnp ($475) and and old mackie 1202 ($250) or something equivalent from soundcraft. so for a bit over a grand you have some flexibility. 8 mic pres of varying quality, and the ability to do a bit of analog mixing...
the rnp and the mackie should hold their value pretty well... and will always be useful.
another way i can see you go is to get the delta ($450), a dmp3 ($150) and a 1202 ($250). that gets you in a bit under a grand. no great pres, and only 6 of them. but i doubt you would need much more than 6 mic pres for a while... do you even have 6 mics?
i think you might do well with the presonus ($600) which comes with 2 pres. an rnp ($475) and and old mackie 1202 ($250) or something equivalent from soundcraft. so for a bit over a grand you have some flexibility. 8 mic pres of varying quality, and the ability to do a bit of analog mixing...
the rnp and the mackie should hold their value pretty well... and will always be useful.
another way i can see you go is to get the delta ($450), a dmp3 ($150) and a 1202 ($250). that gets you in a bit under a grand. no great pres, and only 6 of them. but i doubt you would need much more than 6 mic pres for a while... do you even have 6 mics?
I've looked into the aardvark a bit but haven't gotten any feedback from anyone who has used it- and these forums are full of people who advocate equipment that they haven't compared to anything (I got it so it's good!)....I've got some mics- the most ins/mics I'll need at a time are for my drums. I've got an audix d6 bass mic, 2 oktava overheads (cheap) an sm57 for snare and a akg c414 tlII for a room mic if I want it (the room is not that great). I'm looking around for at least 2 tom mics to spread amongst 4 toms. To be honest, I feel like I'm being pushed toward the 1010lt and a decent mixer.
..not complaining at all dude, I'm psyched about the responses and you all clearly know more than I do (my negativity was the result of other threads). I've got several avenues to investigate.....any other options are appreciated. What am I giving up by going with an older mixer? i.e. mackie 1202 vs 1604 (other than # of preamps)....
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
Okay, here's another suggestion. Take a look at this:
http://www.presonus.com/html/products/digimax_lt.html
Eight channels of preamps going to ADAT lightpipe output. All you need is *any* soundcard that has an ADAT lightpipe input.
In response to your post, I'm not pushing you toward a Delta and small mixer. In fact, I think you would be best served by mixing in the box, along with some decent preamps and converters.
Or, if you can get by with two preamps I'd suggest you take a look at the new MOTU 828mkII.
http://www.presonus.com/html/products/digimax_lt.html
Eight channels of preamps going to ADAT lightpipe output. All you need is *any* soundcard that has an ADAT lightpipe input.
In response to your post, I'm not pushing you toward a Delta and small mixer. In fact, I think you would be best served by mixing in the box, along with some decent preamps and converters.
Or, if you can get by with two preamps I'd suggest you take a look at the new MOTU 828mkII.
Strange Leaf
New member
Analog mixing is it. More expensive, but totally worth it.
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
monster, you need to make a choice as far as mixing in the box or mixing on a hardware mixer. If you mix in the box you don't need the analog outputs.
I personally prefer mixing with a combination of software and hardware, as I mentioned. However, even a simple mix will require more than eight outputs from the DAW. *Within your budget contraints* I personally feel that you may get the better mix by mixing in software. So the thing with the Presonus I linked to is that you wouldn't be coming out of the computer to mix, so those DA converters wouldn't be necessary.
That said, something along the lines of the MOTU 828mkII would be great for you, as you would have the output converters with that box, plus enough money left over to get yourself a little Mackie 1202 or whatever for monitoring purposes.
Actually, if you got the 828mkII plus a used Mackie 1604 you'd probably have the combination of converters and preamps that you need. I believe the first eight channels of the Mackie 1604 have direct outs, and there are six preamps (plus the two on the 828mkII). That combination would also allow you to mix in the box AND in hardware--the best of both worlds. Maybe that's the way to go. The 828mkII is firewire so it should work with pretty much any system, but you should check up on that. There's no real reason for you to get stuck on buying a Delta, there's a lot more options out there to consider.
I personally prefer mixing with a combination of software and hardware, as I mentioned. However, even a simple mix will require more than eight outputs from the DAW. *Within your budget contraints* I personally feel that you may get the better mix by mixing in software. So the thing with the Presonus I linked to is that you wouldn't be coming out of the computer to mix, so those DA converters wouldn't be necessary.
That said, something along the lines of the MOTU 828mkII would be great for you, as you would have the output converters with that box, plus enough money left over to get yourself a little Mackie 1202 or whatever for monitoring purposes.
Actually, if you got the 828mkII plus a used Mackie 1604 you'd probably have the combination of converters and preamps that you need. I believe the first eight channels of the Mackie 1604 have direct outs, and there are six preamps (plus the two on the 828mkII). That combination would also allow you to mix in the box AND in hardware--the best of both worlds. Maybe that's the way to go. The 828mkII is firewire so it should work with pretty much any system, but you should check up on that. There's no real reason for you to get stuck on buying a Delta, there's a lot more options out there to consider.
