From USB Condensor Mic to Non-USB "Phantom and the like".

Ok,
Attached is a record/play noise plot for the KA6 done in Samplitude SE8. 24bits 44.1kHz and all gains were at minimum, inputs open circuit.
You can "calibrate" the plots by the internally generated tone at -18dBFS.

There is also a grab of the Samplitude meter. I have had to tweak the gain by ~2dB because the range stops at -90dB . The actual rms noise is: Left -102, Right -101 and these are of course unweighted figures.

These recordings were done on my HP i3 W7/64 laptop but a quick check on a W7 64 bit desktop showed the same results.

Of greater importance to me, more so than the low inherent noise, is the total absence of artifacts. Very commonly with cheap USB devices you see spikes popping up all over the shop!

Dave. Right! You've seen mine. Let's see yours!!!
 

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USB Mic has it's simplicity, but it's also it's downfall.

I am really not that big of a fan to having it's own device for just recording (Meaning just that one mic having it's own Device).

Why is because it's add another Device Clock. But that's another thing, but basically having everything connected with one Device means one Clock, less issues overall, at least for some stuff i tend to do;P

. An external AI would simply add unnecessary complexity to what he's doing and he may not be able to do all he wants with just that one piece of gear.
Click to expand...

Can't disagree there. But as my initial approach which i thought was simply like using a Headphone Amp in reverse (instead of amplifying playback, you amplify recording), wasn't the way to go.
So from the Simple target of just getting a Condenser mic and a Preamp, it seems i must have a complete AI:(

Something like : http://www.thomann.de/se/art_tube_mp.htm + XLR to RCA -> Soundcard.


(Seems like i missed a post from ecc83)..

Not sure what i am supposed to show, the RMMA of my card?

uc

uc


RMAA ZxR

192khz can be ignored, as i forgot that the input is only 96khz*
ASIO4ALL was used as the ASIO Drivers are problematic at times, and RMAA didn't want to use them at all (software just crashed).

Worth noting, Card supposedly doesn't support 32bit or Float, so not sure why that even worked with ASIO.
 
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Might as well use a USB mic if you are considering that ART pre
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Just completely took something random just to show what i meant;P
And well have no idea about any preamp, it's like comparing bread to bread to me;)


Something like: Focusrite ISA One | Sweetwater.com + XLR to RCA -> Soundcard
Click to expand...

Holy.. that price;S

Is it really Such a huge jump from Decent to Good?
 
Zerowalker said:
Just completely took something random just to show what i meant;P
And well have no idea about any preamp, it's like comparing bread to bread to me;)




Holy.. that price;S

Is it really Such a huge jump from Decent to Good?
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In a word? No. This....
Pick A Preamp | Media
Confirms what I have long suspected, there is no magic woofle dust inside very high priced pre ampS or any other audio gear. We can argue numbers ad.inf. but the actual electronics needed for a pre amp at the edge of what is possible in terms of noise and distortion according to the laws of physics should cost under $100 US.

This is NOT to say the offerings of DAV, Grace, et al are not valuable in many other ways, not least reliability and longevity but some makers DO take the piss a bit!
For instance. FMR have recently released two dynamic processors in the 500 "lunchbox" format to the market which have attracted some very favourable comments. The units cost £199 each. Go see what others want for a 500 compressor!

Bottom line is, the preamps in any of the interfaces* so far mooted will be more than good enough for normal vocal work. My KA6 for example is quite usable with an SM57 on acoustic guitar. Yes, I have to have the taps wide open but still get a noise floor below my house ambient, even at 2am.

Zero. Can you make a recording of "nothing"? About ten seconds, export it as .wav then stuff it into the RTA in RightMark? We will then have comparable graphs but at first look there seems nothing in it twixt the SB and the KA.

*Or indeed MIXER!

Dave.
 
I know we're getting off topic here but it's fun!

For a lot of electronics, it's a case of the jump from "good" to "a bit better" being huge. I used to work in TV and, just as an example, a perfectly good Canon DV camcorder used to sell for around $5000. The jump up from that to a full broadcast camera to the price to the $35-40,000 range depending on the lens. For 99% of the material ever shot, nobody would ever notice the difference but, when lighting got bad the expensive did a better job and, although bigger and heavier, the expensive one was also easier to do a steady shot with.

In the audio world it's even harder to judge. Yes, there ARE measurable improvements to be had for a price (and it does get pricey due to a mix of the component quality and the small niche market) but there's also the "snake oil" element. A lot of things, particularly pre amps are pronounced "better" because users prefer the sound, judged purely subjectively. Frankly, my view is to buy decent stuff because, compared to things like the mic and your acoustic treatment, the pre amp results in fairly subtle differences. Note that my view applies to "decent". If you go TOO cheap you start having problems with headroom and noise--and those are NOT subjective judgements.
 
Zero. Can you make a recording of "nothing"? About ten seconds, export it as .wav then stuff it into the RTA in RightMark? We will then have comparable graphs but at first look there seems nothing in it twixt the SB and the KA.
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You mean with my USB mic?
I can even record it Muted and get noise with that.

Couldn't get it working with RMMA so probably doing something wrong, here is a FLAC: C03U - Noise Floor

Probably bad that it's Stereo but well shouldn't really matter.
 
Zerowalker said:
You mean with my USB mic?
I can even record it Muted and get noise with that.

Couldn't get it working with RMMA so probably doing something wrong, here is a FLAC: C03U - Noise Floor

Probably bad that it's Stereo but well shouldn't really matter.
Click to expand...

No! Not the mic! We know that is as noisy as *&**k! I am interested in the noise floor of the SOUNDCARD. More especially the total record/play noise.

Unplug all external gear, select the card's line inputs in Audacity (but do get Sam Silver or Reaper!) and run a 24bit recording for 10 secs. Export that as a .wav (I put it on my desktop) then open RMark, click for the RTanalyser and pop in the .wav, expand and then "save as" the resultant .png

I can't open that .flac file, not even with Adobe A 1.5. You cannot attach uncompressed audio files here, not even tiny ones which seems strange for an AUDIO forum?
In any case if "I" open a noise test file it will be "polluted" by my system.

Dave.
 
I can't open that .flac file, not even with Adobe A 1.5. You cannot attach uncompressed audio files here, not even tiny ones which seems strange for an AUDIO forum?
In any case if "I" open a noise test file it will be "polluted" by my system.
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You should just have a decompressor for it, FLAC (even though used for music etc), can be used in Forums like this to save space, as Decoding to Wav takes next to no time.
The software doesn't need to support it, as well FLAC isn't good for that stuff anyway, it's only good for Playback not mixing or anything, at least i think so.

Unplug all external gear, select the card's line inputs in Audacity (but do get Sam Silver or Reaper!) and run a 24bit recording for 10 secs. Export that as a .wav (I put it on my desktop) then open RMark, click for the RTanalyser and pop in the .wav, expand and then "save as" the resultant .png
Click to expand...

So i am supposed to record something without having anything inputed?
If so here it is in ZIP, hope that works for you: SoundBlaster ZxR - Aux 24bit Stereo - Noise Floor
 
I've been through so many versions of Audition but I have a feeling that 1.5 was before it could handle FLAC natively--you had to download a free 3rd party app. Could be wrong though...it was around that time that FLAC started to be included.

FYI, FLAC really is lossless compression--way back when I did the old save the same file in wave and FLAC trick then inverted the FLAC and the cancellation was perfect.

FYI, a free account at dropbox.com is invaluable for sharing uncompressed files--highly recommended.
 
Here is a Spectrum, but i simply chose that i wanted to record from my soundcard (with nothing connected to it's input), and saved the graph in RMAA.

124btqd.png
 
Zerowalker said:
Here is a Spectrum, but i simply chose that i wanted to record from my soundcard (with nothing connected to it's input), and saved the graph in RMAA.

View attachment 88994
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That's what I wanted! See, if I play your audio file on my system I add my system noise to yours , gets us nowhere!

Except! In this case your spectrum, whilst being an average 3or so dB lower than mine is very spiky. Then I wonder why you have that steep rise above 50Hz?

Anybloodyway! It is clear that the KA6 has a comparable noise floor to the SB and a damn sight smoother!

Bobbs', mate: Yes, I really should get my head around this dropbox thing. Thing is, I don't do music so I would have little use.

Dave
 
That's what I wanted! See, if I play your audio file on my system I add my system noise to yours , gets us nowhere!
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Well can't you just analyze the digital file?
Cause now, i just clicked "Record" on RMAA, but never recorded anything at all, just copied the Graph. But well it should yield the same result i guess?

Except! In this case your spectrum, whilst being an average 3or so dB lower than mine is very spiky. Then I wonder why you have that steep rise above 50Hz?
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I can't read hertz and db, or rather spiky vs smooth doesn't tell me anything in reality.

But as it's below all other noise, does it really matter?

And for the 50hz thing, i have no idea, i actually thought that was normal, that 50-20hz was harder to "maintain" or something.


I use Google Drive, but it's a bit less user friendly when sharing files;P
 
"I can't read hertz and db, or rather spiky vs smooth doesn't tell me anything in reality."

No matter. I think the important thing is the tests show that the KA6 is at least as good as the SB and I would say better.
Your move I think?

Dave.
 
I know this works!

Need me pit, will have another bash with Dropbox the morrow.

G'nite all.

Dave. Aha! Today you can download the full fat .wav!
 

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Listened to the Wav version (and mp3, couldn't hear any real difference weird enough;S).
And well first of, i liked some of it, especially the calmer parts.

As for the Quality, not sure, it's noisy at some parts, other it's not.
And as it's much going on all the time it's hard to know what kind of noise it is, but i am guessing it may just be ambient noise.
 
Zerowalker said:
Listened to the Wav version (and mp3, couldn't hear any real difference weird enough;S).
And well first of, i liked some of it, especially the calmer parts.

As for the Quality, not sure, it's noisy at some parts, other it's not.
And as it's much going on all the time it's hard to know what kind of noise it is, but i am guessing it may just be ambient noise.
Click to expand...

Well son is a technical numpty! Not at all surprised that the recording is less than stellar. Then the part were done at different times, weeks maybe months apart.
Noise? I could not detect much, even with both aids cranked but then I have to defer to people with 20-20 lugs!

Dave.
 
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