don't throw away those "almost right" takes
- Thread starter swarfrat
- Start date
Steenamaroo
...
It's real man!
I couldn't resist....poor guy.
I couldn't resist....poor guy.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
WTF are you talking about...?
Most of the discussion in the beginning of this thread was about double tracking.
Grim and Armistice then made comments about punch recording, section recording and comping...and/or doing takes until they got it right. My first post (#16) was to them, simply saying that comping is really not much different than any of those other approaches.
Now go look at at your posts #17 and #20 that came after mine...they were made to me, and were an intentional attempt to stir up shit with me (what a surprise).
You immediatley took the discussion to some "doing it right" VS "not being able to play" kind of BS.
Nothing I said to Grim and Armistice had anything to do with that.
It was just talking about tracking approaches and preferences....same thing they were saying about theirs.
I guess not everyone can cut a perfect 3 minute song with a dozen tracks in less than an hour's time of tracking.
3 minutes for each "single perfect take" = 36 minutes.
I'm not that good.
Of course...if you need a lot of takes to get that one "perfect" take....then really, where's the playing perfection and commitment?
I could tell from your first post exactly where this was headed, and this is where it was headed. Miro trying to "school" everyone about his ideas and his way of doing things because others dare to do it differently. My comment in post 17 was just a joke, not a "stirring of shit", but I do see right through you. You saw some people actually agreeing in principle, and you had to correct the situation.WTF are you talking about...?
Most of the discussion in the beginning of this thread was about double tracking.
Grim and Armistice then made comments about punch recording, section recording and comping...and/or doing takes until they got it right. My first post (#16) was to them, simply saying that comping is really not much different than any of those other approaches.
Now go look at at your posts #17 and #20 that came after mine...they were made to me, and were an intentional attempt to stir up shit with me (what a surprise).
Again, you made claims and projected your shit onto others before I did. I didn't make it a competition, you did, but only an idiot would see anything wrong with trying to play a part correctly in one take.
You said it, not me. But I'll agree with that.
Of course...if you need a lot of takes to get that one "perfect" take....then really, where's the playing perfection and commitment?
Yeah, why try to get one good take when you can slop out 50 bad ones and just piece them together like a frankenshit? I'm not even talking about playing "perfect". I'm talking about doing a good take and standing pat with it. Not overthinking. Not overcooking. Not overdoing things that no one will notice anyway. Once again, no one said anything bad about comping. I certainly haven't. A handful of us want to play the part right in one go rather than piece it together. That's all. All of the things that you think happened that upset you are in your head.
dobro
Well-known member
I'll record every track until I get one that I think is good to go. Then I'll erase all the previous takes. Then I'll do one more take, just in case I didn't hear some issue in what I thought was the perfect take. Reason: my recording brain isn't the same as my mixing brain - my recording brain just doesn't notice as much as my mixing brain - it's in performance mode, not listening mode. I've learned from painful experience that I just can't trust my ears when I'm in recording mode. But yeah, avoid endless takes. Avoid cobbling together a frankenstein monster from endless takes. Just get it right the first time.
How dare you!
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
"A handful of us".....
You wanna boast about being able to do a bunch of takes until you get that "one good take"...fine, but there's nothing complicated or especially skillful about doing that.
That's basically trial & error tracking....but hey, we all record some tracks in that manner.
If you think comping is just about that, then it means you really don't know or can't see the use and benefit of comping when you have several good takes....not just one.
It's got nothing to do with comping bad takes.
Anders Erisian
XLIII
I guess you guys are mostly talking about songs which have a fixed formal arrangement of parts. I like to include improvised melodic lines and 'solos' when recording stuff sometimes. Usually multiple takes and choose the 'best' after reviewing them multiple times, but i have comped some together, and layered them as a tonal effect in sections that synched nicely, on occasion. I see having those takes and options to work with as a useful and valid creative tool. Sometimes they are just rubbish. You can always practice an improv that sounded good later and make it rote.
A lot of the 'jazz greats' worked this way, improvisation being at the heart of much jazz music, and produced some great recordings. Most often though they would be tracking whole groups playing the entire piece, with improv's, in one take 'live', and probably viewed any comping as blasphemy. Sorry if this doesn't add to the argument.
A lot of the 'jazz greats' worked this way, improvisation being at the heart of much jazz music, and produced some great recordings. Most often though they would be tracking whole groups playing the entire piece, with improv's, in one take 'live', and probably viewed any comping as blasphemy. Sorry if this doesn't add to the argument.
dobro
Well-known member
Yeah, for sure. Dunno what others do, but I tend to do a few takes of a part as a way of warming up. Of course, I *could* just warm up by playing the part three times and THEN hitting record when the part's good enough to be a keeper. But I've always got this 'you might get the one in a million take when you're least expecting it so just record everything' idea. I seldom get a one in a million take. Maybe once every 100 takes.
You're making things up again. I'm not "boasting" about doing 100 takes. I'm not boasting about anything. I don't see how anyone is boasting by saying they want to record a good take all the way through. Maybe I should boast though because it doesn't take me a "bunch of takes" to do anything. Why do you think it takes a "bunch of takes" to get a good one? You keep going back to this. Is that how you have to record? Maybe it is, and that's fine, but again you're trying to put everyone in the same box. Maybe you can't do it so you project your flaws onto everyone else. There's nothing trial and error about simply knowing how to play what you want to record. Know your shit before you record it. Most people would consider that a good attribute. You act like it's a fucking disease."A handful of us".....
You wanna boast about being able to do a bunch of takes until you get that "one good take"...fine, but there's nothing complicated or especially skillful about doing that.
That's basically trial & error tracking....but hey, we all record some tracks in that manner.
I don't think comping is *only* about jamming a bunch of bad takes together, but that's what it probably amounts to for many people, including you if you're gonna sit there and claim that it takes a jillion takes just to record one good one. I'm just guessing because I know how easy it is to do. I AM making an assumption here. I could be wrong about it, but I don't think I am judging by what I read from people in here about how they do things. I've had to do that for other people and it's fucking maddening. One of my good friends records like that and it drives me insane. I refuse to record like that. I've always been against the ease of editing with digital. I think it becomes a crutch for a lot of people. On the flip side, I don't personally see much point in comping good takes because if you have a good take, it's already a good take. You're just entertaining yourself, and that's fine too, but it is just playing around. I'm not gonna record 5 complete sets of drum takes, go through each set, 50 tracks total, and pick out the best pieces and slice and dice it all together. That's fucking mental. If someone else wants to do that, rock on. I think they're crazy. Go ahead and post some link about one of your hero idol engineers from the glory days cutting and pasting good takes together. I'll call him crazy too.If you think comping is just about that, then it means you really don't know or can't see the use and benefit of comping when you have several good takes....not just one.
It's got nothing to do with comping bad takes.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
You and some others have said that you would rather keep doing takes to get that one complete take, than comp.
Not sure how many takes that is for you or anyone else...but it's certainly not just "one" take.
However...I don't have a problem with that.
It's all legit, whether you punch, record in sections, comp, or do a bunch of takes in order to get that "one good take".
You're the one that immediately went into your mocking mode, and tried to turn this into some competition.
Every take I do IS a complete take....get it?
And when I comp some stuff, it's from multiple good, complete takes in order to get the best feel/tone of a track for the final mix.
Again...
....if you read my posts instead of just looking for something to stir up....you would see that I said awhile ago I normally don't do more than 3-5 takes to get a complete one. That's it.Like I said, because I have to work within a 24 track limit going to tape, I always do complete takes, not to mention, I don't want to do 100 passes per track, as it wears down the tape.
When it comes to stuff like vocals....I'll do and keep 3 good takes and then comp from them.
You wanna keep going on and on about what's "better" or more "right" or more "skillful".....knock yourself out.
The hilarious part in all of this is that I've never once said any of the things you're claiming that I have. I never said anything about wanting to do a bunch of takes, being better, or right, or skilled, etc. I never said anything negative about comping, punch-ins, or anything. I never challenged anyone to any competition. You are fucking out of your mind. The strongest stance I've taken is saying to be able to play what you want to play before you press record. Oh the fucking horror! I said I prefer to do things in one take, and you've since lost your fucking shit over it. And for what? Why does it kill you that I don't comp takes? That's how fucking backed into a corner you are, and it's 100% self-inflicted. You are literally arguing things that were never said! Get over yourself.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Whatever.....but I know what you said, how you said it and with what intent.
I was responding to Grim and Armistice....but you just had to jump in with some little mocking shots at what I was saying about comping.
Even though others before me said they used comping for some things....this thread didn't go off the rails until you started with the digs specifically directed at me (surprise) back with post #17, and from there on.
Yup....comping is only used to magically fix shitty playing....you go with that thought.
I was responding to Grim and Armistice....but you just had to jump in with some little mocking shots at what I was saying about comping.
Even though others before me said they used comping for some things....this thread didn't go off the rails until you started with the digs specifically directed at me (surprise) back with post #17, and from there on.
Yup....comping is only used to magically fix shitty playing....you go with that thought.
No, not at all. Never crossed my mind at all. There was no intent whatsoever. If you inferred that, then that's on you, and it would explain why you went mirofensive over nothing.
No, I don't mock what you said because you're not wrong about comping. I haven't disagreed with or said anything bad about comping. Not one word. I made a joke because you whipped out the soapbox and got all preachy as you tend to do. Then you started talking nonsense by putting people into little boxes and claiming that everyone does this and that, blah blah blah, just to justify and rationalize your own ideas and practices - which were never under attack. Ever! I do believe it was someone else that said something like "miro's looking to argue", and hot damn, he was right.
So no, I'm not the only one that notices your rabid tendencies to turn everything into a huge mess. See what I mean? You literally have nothing, not one single piece of topical evidence to go with, so you make things up to get your own digs in. Lol. You're so sad! I'm truly almost embarrassed for you.Yup....comping is only used to magically fix shitty playing....you go with that thought.
Maybe you can comp all of your posts into one legit comment that isn't based on lies, assumptions, and general hypocrisy.