don't throw away those "almost right" takes

miroslav said:
Not that there's anything wrong with doing that ^^^....but it's really no different than comping.
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Oh look... miro wants to argue... :yawn::eek::D

So I'll start playing something and hopefully get all the way through. If I don't I'll decide, based on how long the song is, how difficult it is to play, whether there are breaks in it, and how far I got whether I ditch it and start again, or try a punch in from a point and continue to the end. Usually, it's simpler just to go back to the start, but I'm not just chugging chords here most times, so I'm open minded on it, particularly if it's a bit complex. At the end, I have a single complete track.

What I don't do is do multiple complete takes and then listen through them and decide that verse 1 from Take 1 is the winner, but that verse 2 has to come from take 3 and the first chorus from take 2 and there's no good 2nd chorus so I'll cut and paste the one from take 2 again... etc... which is what I call comping.

I will do that for vocals because I need to usually, being a crap singer...

But it's not a religion... I do what works for me and I figure if I can't play the damn thing well enough to get complete takes then I shouldn't be recording it yet... :thumbs up:
 
Please Greg...don't start your BS...... :facepalm:

You obviously don't get what comping is. Don't make it out like it has something to do with not being able to play...blah, blah, blah.... :rolleyes:....it has nothing to do with that.

I can play/sing any of my tracks from start to finish...the "right" way, because I have all the time in my studio to practice and work out stuff until it is. There's no clock or a need for me to keep a take that isn't right.
What comping does is gives you options, because maybe the way a phrase is sung in one take has a slightly different inflection than it does in another take...but both are "right", but one just works better for the feel of the song.
 
Armistice said:
I do what works for me and I figure if I can't play the damn thing well enough to get complete takes then I shouldn't be recording it yet... :thumbs up:
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Well isn't that what I said.... ;)

It's all about getting complete takes.
The three complete vocal takes are all good....but just as you also do, I like to then comp the best sections from the three into one.
I just said that I rather comp like that....than punch/section recording in order to get one take.

What's the big deal? :)

Otherwise, most tracks are single, complete takes.
 
Hey, you said the silly shit, not me. I know what comping is, everyone does. It's not hi-tech shit. All I said is I don't do it. I prefer to do it in one take. Then you got mirofensive over nothing and started making claims about "everyone" and putting "everyone" into the same box.

No one said anything bad about comping. You brought that part up. You must be feeling insecure about something.
 
Greg....I didn't say any silly shit.
I didn't say everyon comps....I said everyone fixes/alters/edits tracks in a DAW. Otherwise, if they were perfect when recorded, you would not need to touch them in any way...nothing....no processing, no editing, nothing.

I simply said that comping is really no different than punch/section recording. In both cases you assemble a track....either in real-time with punch/section recording, or later by comping from three good takes.

The problem with your replies is that right away you want to turn it into some kind of competition...."I just do it until I can play it right"....or some such nonsense, as though comping or punch/section recording is used only to hide poor playing skills.

Hey...when you need to play something 30 times for that one perfect take....where's the playing skill in that?

I'm just saying that it's all the same shit.
The reason some people don't like to do dozens of takes until they get that one track right is that in most cases, it's about diminishing returns with each take.
There was a whole big thing about this awhile back...where engineers found that usually after 5 takes, things tend to go downhill...and then maybe if you beat on it for another 20 takes, you might start to came back around to where you're getting something good.....but by then, you're also starting to get tired and the spontaneity is lost, and you might end up with a technically perfect take, but that initial feel is gone.
IMO, same thing happens with punch/section recording.

So that's why I've adopted for some things (especially vocals) the no more than 5 take approach, often just three good takes, and then I'll comp.
It keeps the feel and also lets me move on to something else.
If I can't get what I want in those 3-5 takes....I'll come back to it tomorrow.....but it has nothing to do with not being able to play it right.
 
miroslav said:
Greg....I didn't say any silly shit.
I didn't say everyon comps....I said everyone fixes/alters/edits tracks in a DAW. Otherwise, if they were perfect when recorded, you would not need to touch them in any way...nothing....no processing, no editing, nothing.
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Moving goalposts.

I simply said that comping is really no different than punch/section recording. In both cases you assemble a track....either in real-time with punch/section recording, or later by comping from three good takes.
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I don't need a tutorial. I know what comping and punch-ins are.

The problem with your replies is that right away you want to turn it into some kind of competition...."I just do it until I can play it right"....or some such nonsense, as though comping or punch/section recording is used only to hide poor playing skills.
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I never said anything even remotely like that. You inferred that for reasons unknown. Probably because you're always ready to get overly defensive and argumentative over things that miro believes in.

Hey...when you need to play something 30 times for that one perfect take....where's the playing skill in that?
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I don't know, I don't take 30 takes to do anything. Do you?

I'm just saying that it's all the same shit.
The reason some people don't like to do dozens of takes until they get that one track right is that in most cases, it's about diminishing returns with each take.
There was a whole big thing about this awhile back...where engineers found that usually after 5 takes, things tend to go downhill...and then maybe if you beat on it for another 20 takes, you might start to came back around to where you're getting something good.....but by then, you're also starting to get tired and the spontaneity is lost, and you might end up with a technically perfect take, but that initial feel is gone.
IMO, same thing happens with punch/section recording.

So that's why I've adopted for some things (especially vocals) the no more than 5 take approach, often just three good takes, and then I'll comp.
It keeps the feel and also lets me move on to something else.
If I can't get what I want in those 3-5 takes....I'll come back to it tomorrow.....but it has nothing to do with not being able to play it right.
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Didn't ask, don't care why you do what you do. You don't have to defend yourself and your ways over every single little thing when no one was even talking to you.
 
swarfrat said:
You guys that get it right the first time can just go back and record 3 or 4 more full length perfect takes.
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:D

Right.


Really though....that is how lots of people use comping in the studio...especially now days with DAWs where you can record a 100 tracks or more.
They record a few perfect takes, but then find portions of each take that have the best feel/tone/vibe/whatever, and comp then into one.
This is done by many artists who are more than capable of playing....actually, in that scenario, comping is easy because all the takes are already good to begin with.

Try comping from several shitty takes that have poor playing and that all sound a little different with different energy and feel.....good luck! :thumsb up: ;)
 
swarfrat said:
You guys that get it right the first time can just go back and record 3 or 4 more full length perfect takes.
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What the hell for? If you got it right the first time, there's no need to keep doing it.....unless you're some kind of studio masochist.
 
Greg_L said:
What the hell for? If you got it right the first time, there's no need to keep doing it.....unless you're some kind of studio masochist.
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I think he's referring to if you want to layer tracks.
 
I take all of my perfect takes and delete them so I can do a bunch of imperfect takes and comp them together into one perfect take.
 
Greg_L said:
You don't have to defend yourself and your ways over every single little thing when no one was even talking to you.
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Actually....you WERE specifically talking to me, and you immediately went into your put-down, attack mode.
Go back and read the first post you made after mine.

You're goal was/is as always....to try and stir shit up.
It just never gets old for you. :facepalm:

Comping is a legit studio process...I have nothing to defend.
I was simply comparing comping to punch/section recording, to doing 30 practice takes unitl you get it "right" as you say.
All the same shit....

I'm sure the person hearing the song can really tell. ;)
 
Um, check again. I posted in this thread before you did. I said the same things as a few others before me, then a few after me said the same things, and that was just too much for you to handle. Your ego was smashed. You saw people that have similar views but a different recording mentality than yours, and bam, here we are. None of us said anything about competing, or being better, or that comping was bad. YOU made claims about others, not me.
 
I'm pretty sure I was talking about layering, with multiple layers mixed low enough that they are just texture. As a distinct approach compared to the traditional L/R double track.
 
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