ibleedburgundy
The Anti-Lambo
Vladimir Putin is not going to be 'friendly' to us under any circumstances. Appeasement is not the answer to an Autocrat.
Last edited:
Do you care...
- Thread starter Mick Doobie
- Start date
Vladimir Putin is not going to be 'friendly' to us under any circumstances. Appeasement is not the answer to an Autocrat.
ibleedburgundy
The Anti-Lambo
Under the Bush administration Iran was building more centrifuges, and creating weapons grade plutonium, and moving towards a nuclear bomb capability. Under Obama they have surrendered most of their stockpile, they have shut down most of their centrifuges - including the specific facility (Fordow) that was capable of weapons grade plutonium, and they are subjected to international inspections that verify that they are no longer on the path towards building a nuclear bomb.
Precisely how is that not a massive improvement over the nothing Bush accomplished?
6 Things You Should Know About The Iran Nuclear Deal : The Two-Way : NPR
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
We'll talk about Iran and their nuclear program again in about 5-10 years. 
The whole "deal" thing just got under way...you have to give it some time.
A country that has maybe as much hatred and focus and on doing us harm as N.K...though Iran actually has the money (we just released it to them) and ability and motivation to do it...is not going to be subdued by simple agreements.
Yeah...it's all speculation (same as with Russia)...but I think it's fair to say Iran is not out to make friends with the US...regardless of any agreements. They first needed the stranglehold of the sanctions removed, and for that, they promised, and gave something up. Now they can do what they really want, and the reality is that it will be a shell game they will play with the inspectors...because...they have a goal, and it's not a nice one AFA the US is concerned.
You wanna put your money on "inspections" in a country of that size...?...OK...you go with that.
The whole "deal" thing just got under way...you have to give it some time.
A country that has maybe as much hatred and focus and on doing us harm as N.K...though Iran actually has the money (we just released it to them) and ability and motivation to do it...is not going to be subdued by simple agreements.
Yeah...it's all speculation (same as with Russia)...but I think it's fair to say Iran is not out to make friends with the US...regardless of any agreements. They first needed the stranglehold of the sanctions removed, and for that, they promised, and gave something up. Now they can do what they really want, and the reality is that it will be a shell game they will play with the inspectors...because...they have a goal, and it's not a nice one AFA the US is concerned.
You wanna put your money on "inspections" in a country of that size...?...OK...you go with that.
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
Long 11 hour day, and had a damn nose bleed for no apparent reason. I've never had a nose bleed. Tired, so i'll be brief for now...
I was in a rush and I guess what I wrote was poorly worded. We learned from hackings what a lot of us already strongly suspected or pretty much knew....Hillary and the DNC are corrupt as shit. The media, rather than do their job, they in large part colluded with Hillary and the DNC to fuck over Trump and millions of Americans. The DNC also screwed over Bernie Sanders as a patsy. Hillary and Bill Clinton, the DNC, the mainstream media, they've been through the hackings revealed as bunch of disgusting creeps. The American people deserved to be told the truth, rather than as has been the case too many times that shit is dismissed as some "vast right wing conspiracy" to pick on poor Hillary. The bitch is a career criminal who deserves jail time.
I'm in no way a fan of hackers of any stripe, but it was high time the truth was told. The media damn well wasn't going to do it. I reckon sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. Criminal hackers revealed criminal establishment.
I apologize for the tone of my post, i'm too tired to mince words.
ibleedburgundy
The Anti-Lambo
We'll talk about Iran and their nuclear program again in about 5-10 years.
The whole "deal" thing just got under way...you have to give it some time.
A country that has maybe as much hatred and focus and on doing us harm as N.K...though Iran actually has the money (we just released it to them) and ability and motivation to do it...is not going to be subdued by simple agreements.
Yeah...it's all speculation (same as with Russia)...but I think it's fair to say Iran is not out to make friends with the US...regardless of any agreements. They first needed the stranglehold of the sanctions removed, and for that, they promised, and gave something up. Now they can do what they really want, and the reality is that it will be a shell game they will play with the inspectors...because...they have a goal, and it's not a nice one AFA the US is concerned.
You wanna put your money on "inspections" in a country of that size...?...OK...you go with that.
JMO, but I don't think Iran is any where near as crazy as North Korea. Not even close. Iran is not some third world country. Yes, they hate us, but there is a big difference between that and them being suicidal. War with us, or Israel, is suicide for Iran. And they know it. I am not sure NK could not go suicidal at the whim of one of the Kims.
The Iran sanctions were absolutely not strangling their Nuclear weapons development program. Stuxnet set them back some but they would have recovered in time. Republicans talked tough about bombing Iran, but most experts say that wouldn't have worked either - which is why Bush didn't do it when Iran was building centrifuges and even going so far as to taunt Bush by arming our enemies in Iraq.
The money we released to Iran was never going to make or break their nuclear program, and it was theirs anyway and we were on the verge of losing it to them in court.
Nuclear weapons inspections work. This is one of the clear lessons of the Iraq war. Nuclear weapons programs leave evidence - lots of it. They aren't mobile. Hell yes, I'll take my chances on weapons inspections vs the alternatives (sanctions that were tried and PROVEN not to work, or war). Those are the only choices.
ibleedburgundy
The Anti-Lambo
The media is huge. Lumping them all together like that - IMO is unwarranted. There are lots of good journalists out there. Few are on cable news. The BS took place on cable news as far as I know, and it doesn't surprise me. I haven't watched cable news in 8 years now. -One of the best decisions I ever made.
Knowledge is power. If someone has convinced you that you can't trust anyone for your information, what have they done to you? Think about it. There are good sources of information. If you deprive yourself of them, you're only hurting yourself.
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
Cable news can be and is quite influential, in many ways. Example, CNN hosts a debate between Presidential candidates. In hacked emails we learned that apparently the good folks at CNN colluded with DNC chairwoman Donna Brazile to pass debate questions in advance of the debate to the Clinton campaign. I don't have cable anymore, but i've seen clips on the net of Brazile obfuscating and bold faced lying about the whole thing, despite there being clear evidence of it....in her own words through hacked emails.
I don't watch cable news, nor do I read that shit on the net. I read blogs for the most part. It's more entertaining. Most of the "news" should be for the most part irrelevant to me, my life. It is somewhat irrelevant, i'd like to not give a shit. It would be more so if the federal govt would limit to the framers' intent. Establish and protect borders, defend against threats both foreign and domestic, and provide for an environment where commerce can thrive.....otherwise gtfo my lawn. Contrary to what may seem, i've grown to hate politics, politicians demo and repub. The only enjoyment i get from any of it is when they've been caught with their pants down and getting kicked in the dick.
lol i'm an asshole. But seriously, i'm an asshole.
edit: I suppose it should be pointed out that the debate was the democratic primary. So they were fucking over fellow "Democrat" Bernie Sanders and his supporters. But honestly, he was never supposed to be a serious contender. Just in case, the DNC and media would make sure of that by any means necessary.
I don't watch cable news, nor do I read that shit on the net. I read blogs for the most part. It's more entertaining. Most of the "news" should be for the most part irrelevant to me, my life. It is somewhat irrelevant, i'd like to not give a shit. It would be more so if the federal govt would limit to the framers' intent. Establish and protect borders, defend against threats both foreign and domestic, and provide for an environment where commerce can thrive.....otherwise gtfo my lawn. Contrary to what may seem, i've grown to hate politics, politicians demo and repub. The only enjoyment i get from any of it is when they've been caught with their pants down and getting kicked in the dick.
lol i'm an asshole. But seriously, i'm an asshole.
edit: I suppose it should be pointed out that the debate was the democratic primary. So they were fucking over fellow "Democrat" Bernie Sanders and his supporters. But honestly, he was never supposed to be a serious contender. Just in case, the DNC and media would make sure of that by any means necessary.
Last edited:
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
Just to lighten the mood and illustrate i'm not entirely piss and vinegar...
I don't generally do sweets, when I do I tend to overdo it, so I try to avoid it and not even get started. Having said that, I highly recommend little Ginger Snap cookies dipped in milk until they're soggy. Pretty damn good. They're also small, so 15-20.....
You guys have a great day.
I don't generally do sweets, when I do I tend to overdo it, so I try to avoid it and not even get started. Having said that, I highly recommend little Ginger Snap cookies dipped in milk until they're soggy. Pretty damn good. They're also small, so 15-20.....
You guys have a great day.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
I'm sorry but I just can't let that stand.
The only proper way to eat ginger snap cookies is dipped in milky tea!
kcearl
I see deaf people
Again...I would rather have Russia friendly instead of pissed off at the US.
We go and lift sanctions off of Iran with some stupid deal that will most definitely bite us in the ass down the road...and Iran will never be friendly toward the US...never.
So Obama just kicked the can, which he's done so well on a lot of things...let the next generation deal with it.
Anyway...I think it's all speculation about what Trump will or wont do...and I think he may surprise some people once he is finally in office and has a working administration.
We certainly will not do any worse, IMO, because all presidents realize that things are different in office compared to the campaign trail, and they make adjustments.
Trump may change some things on the foreign diplomacy front...but he is not going to do too much to make the US any weaker, militarily or economically. These were cornerstones of his campaign.
AFA NATO...I think there's something there to be looked at..."Europe" might be asked to pick up more of that tab...but I don't see the US weakening its position.
Russia is no more friendly to the US now than it was 4 years ago than it will be in 4 years time. Putin has no desire to rule the world hand in hand with the US, he has its own agenda and thats exactly what Putin is looking out for. He'll likely have the presidents ear to some extent and thats to his benefit, if you think otherwise you really need to study Putin more. Russia will make inroads into Eastern Europe and likely influence events in the Middle East more now. Short of war future administrations will be powerless to stop him even if they want too.
Trump had many cornerstones to his campaign, and many of them will disappear in a cloud of lobbyists and nepotism, just watch. Sure he wasnt the corrupt politician, Hillary was, he was just a corrupt businessman waiting to become a corrupt politician. Government always wins.
kcearl
I see deaf people
Quoted for truth
TAE
All you have is now
That $280B number is a guesstimate of the effect "all" international sanctions imposed on Russia will have caused, not just the U.S. They also estimate that Russia has lost over 400 billion because of the drop in oil prices. Keeping oil cheap seems to hurt them the hardest.
TAE
All you have is now
kcearl
I see deaf people
The Government, or the wealthiest of the wealthiest puppeteers pulling the strings?
One in the same.
Folks think Trumps rich....but the real elite laugh at him like he's a used car salesman. Thats why he's always more confident in the South or Mid-West than his home in Manhattan, the presidency may stroke his ego but it wont change that. And four years will be over in a flash. No wall, no muslim ban, no mass deportations, no locking anyone up, and no bringing jobs back from Mumbai that were actually lost to automation in the first place. Oh and iphones will still be made in China (lets face it 95% of what politicians say to get elected disappears anyway, Trumps no different).
I get why he said what he did to get elected, and I get what he's trying to achieve, but by supporting and giving positions to people like Flynn and Bannon I can never support him, neither will anyone I know. In fact Im way more moderate than my American family and neighbours that Ive talked to who would rather see him fail at the expense of their own country than succeed.
And this Russia hacking thing...its already being said that they may have had a hand in the Brexit vote as well now, even the Scottish independence vote (god knows why). Im not sure the US, or West, is anywhere near the level of cyber attacks and hacking as its adversaries. I'm pretty sure no one in Russia would claim conspiracy theories or laugh it off if the US had a hand in their (already corrupt) elections. It might actually be considered an act of war if it was so obvious.
Last edited:
TAE
All you have is now
kcearl
I see deaf people
A nose without a face is a face just the same I guess....just harder to look at.
Its weird, I was at a neighbours thanksgiving dinner...Women are teachers, husbands IT but father is retired blue collar union man. The after-dinner hatred was seething...I laugh off Trumps speeches even though my family are muslims, immigrants, and members of IBIS (extremist hotel chain)...but their seething was weirdly mixed with embarrassment because a foreigner was witnessing Trumps victory first hand lol.
The world wont end, the US wont be anymore racist than its always been, he might even create a few jobs through his blundering naive approach to politics...hell I approve the way he ignores the regular channels and diplomacy that always seemed like some dumb game to me.
But they hate him. That wont be changing.
I don't believe a fucking word of it. Keep in mind that the CIA is a branch of the current regime. It does what it is directed to. It is a 'tool' of the administration and one that can be easily scapegoated all the while being under control of the administratiin.
Like him or not, I've never in all my days seen a current administration have such an overt and now covert pushback against an incming POTUS.
The existing power structure does not want Trump in office.
There is no proof of Russian election interference or hacking, there is no evidence. Just the talking heads giving out the 'official narrative'
If it were true, why no arrests, why no individuals named, why no extraditions??
I think it's all bullshit and the current regimes doing.
Lastly, if it 'were' true, that would mean that the NSA is one of the most useless branches ever.
Like him or not, I've never in all my days seen a current administration have such an overt and now covert pushback against an incming POTUS.
The existing power structure does not want Trump in office.
There is no proof of Russian election interference or hacking, there is no evidence. Just the talking heads giving out the 'official narrative'
If it were true, why no arrests, why no individuals named, why no extraditions??
I think it's all bullshit and the current regimes doing.
Lastly, if it 'were' true, that would mean that the NSA is one of the most useless branches ever.
DM60
Well-known member
Tea with half and half is the only way to drink hot tea (as I am doing now). Oh, and ginger snap cookies would also taste good.
