Do you care...

[Mick Doobie]

Do you care more (if) Russia did some hacking-ings, or what was learned about Hillary Clinton, the DNC and other creeps in governmental involvement and media collusion through hacking-ings? Or, you dont give a rats ass either way?

Hillary and media bad, but (if) Russian hackers baderer?

I guess its kind of like in a court case when a lawyer blurts out an inappropriate question/statement. Then there is an objection and the judge orders the jury to disregard what they may have learned from the question/statement. Try though they might, it's difficult to unhear what the jury has learned from the exchange.

Keep it civil, please. I gotta go to work and wont be back until tonight. Don't get it locked.

 

[Farview]

I think it's all fershit. It confirms the reason why I couldn't bring myself to vote for either one of them.

The corruption was obvious on one side, but so was the narcissism of the other candidate.

Our only hope is for the ego of the new president driving him to actually do something right.( The right thing happening for the wrong reasons)

 

[Chili]

I think it is sad that we as a country allowed ourselves to get into a position where we are asking if the Russians hacked our voting system.

 

[Pinky]

I think it is sad that we as a country allowed ourselves to get into a position where we are asking if the Russians compromised our election process.

Fixed.

And agree.

 

[kcearl]

I cant believe the majority of Republicans arent outraged because they think they won. I can garauntee you if the shoe was on the other foot it would be a different story.

Not being American I dont have the historical hysterics when it comes to the Ruskies, but at the moment there looks like only one country thats running the world show just now, whether Trump gets on board with that is something else. Im still not sure he has a clue what he's doing yet, maybe he does. Everything else in America is run like a business so why not the country too.

 

[Chili]

Fixed.

And agree.

Good fix and good point. Even if they didn't physically hack into our voting system, they altered our election process. They don't need hackers, just some good psyops and well placed rumors. Which in turn, weakens our confidence in the system. How is it possible to retaliate against that? We can't, they already have a corrupted election process.

 

[TAE]

If the Russians can do it, the Red and Blue teams can too. They have nothing on American Cyber wizardry. As far as media influence, what about wiki leaks and the gazillion of other cyber watchdoggies out there that can desiminate factual or non factual information at the click of the mouse?

Sadly the masses are asses, always been that way always will be. Be you Red, Blue, Green or in between the majority of people at the top have agendas and influences that are beyond the scope of most lay peoples imagination and or understanding. It is so complex and convoluted on so many levels...a huge clusterfuck of "good intentions, concepts and ideas" executed in good faith with a roll of the dice, most often not fully analyzing the butterfly effect those decisions may cause.

As this new administration takes over there will be some significant effort to make big changes by a lot of mostly well meaning American citizens. Most with kids and grandchildren of their own that they want a better future for. Just like the previous administration and future ones. Problem is it's pretty much beyond any group of humans capability to figure out and agree on how to best run such an incredibly complex machine. We are at the mercy of who is the best bullshitter at getting his way, even though in his heart he believes it is the best way it may not be. But because he is better at convincing the "group" it goes that way and we get things like "not so affordable" health care.

The only consolation is this whole thing is a temporary deal as we fly through space and time.

 

[Pinky]

Good fix and good point. Even if they didn't physically hack into our voting system, they altered our election process. They don't need hackers, just some good psyops and well placed rumors. Which in turn, weakens our confidence in the system. How is it possible to retaliate against that? We can't, they already have a corrupted election process.

Yes, that is the critical distinction I was aiming for.

It's unlikely they modified the actual election results (meaning, changing votes from one candidate to another in the voting machines) but instead they changed MINDS, which effectively and likely helped foster the changing of votes from one to the other.

 

[miroslav]

...but instead they changed MINDS, which effectively and likely helped foster the changing of votes from one to the other.

Hmmm.....did the hackers really change the minds...or was it actually the revealed info from the DNC/Clinton side...?

We have many on the left applauding when Snowden basically hacked/stole top secret government info and then reveled some truths...but now we don't like it when someone outside the USA does it...HUH...?...

...or is it really just the left still crying about their loss in the elections, and otherwise would not care had they done it to Trump?

 

[mixsit]

Good fix and good point. Even if they didn't physically hack into our voting system, they altered our election process. They don't need hackers, just some good psyops and well placed rumors. Which in turn, weakens our confidence in the system. How is it possible to retaliate against that? We can't, they already have a corrupted election process.

Us armchair speculators may never get told what or if' such and such happened or not. CIA, NSA, FBI may, and one can hope they’re the ball.
But apparently, one of the 'known common denominators in what 'they' (Russia et all) are always 'on to'.. is chip away at our confidence in our system.
As such.. we’ (some of us... :>) are doing pretty damn well at doing their bidding aren’t we right about now.

 

[kcearl]

Hmmm.....did the hackers really change the minds...or was it actually the revealed info from the DNC/Clinton side...?

We have many on the left applauding when Snowden basically hacked/stole top secret government info and then reveled some truths...but now we don't like it when someone outside the USA does it...HUH...?...

...or is it really just the left still crying about their loss in the elections, and otherwise would not care had they done it to Trump?

I didnt hear anyone say that the Russians altered the outcome?

I dont think it has anything to do with winning or losing. Its how "cold" warfare is fought nowadays, the North Koreans, the Chinese, the US as well Im sure. This was just a pretty obvious case of it and just going "nya nya nya nana, we won" doesnt alter the fact that republicans seem to be all right with it.

Id hope the current administration, regardless of party affiliation, is striking back at the Russians right now instead of being like some sore winner calling it a conspiracy theory. The US isnt running the world just now, thats for sure.

 

[miroslav]

I didnt hear anyone say that the Russians altered the outcome?

I didn't say that...I was responding to Pinky's post that "they" (I assume he meant the Ruskies with their hacks) "changed MINDS"...

...but you're probably right, the outcome would have been the same anyway, even without "them".

 

[kcearl]

Putin must be pretty chuffed, especially with his mate being made sec of state...cant see the US standing in his way at all for the foreseeable future.

If this had been a movie plot 4years ago I doubt they know whether to categorize it as a political drama or a screwball comedy

 

[miroslav]

I'm not sure why you seem to think the Russians are going to roll over the US with Trump in office...?
If anything...they've done that for the last 8 years with Obama...pretty much ignored him and did what they wanted.

IMO...I would rather have Russia more with us than against us, like they've been the last 8 years, and I don't think the Trump administration will do any worse than Obama's has done. I think things will be better in the long term, because the real gorilla in the room isn't Russia...it's China...and with Russia and the US happy, China is more neutralized.

 

[kcearl]

I'm not sure why you seem to think the Russians are going to roll over the US with Trump in office...?
If anything...they've done that for the last 8 years with Obama...pretty much ignored him and did what they wanted.

IMO...I would rather have Russia more with us than against us, like they've been the last 8 years, and I don't think the Trump administration will do any worse than Obama's has done. I think things will be better in the long term, because the real gorilla in the room isn't Russia...it's China...and with Russia and the US happy, China is more neutralized.

The difference being Trump wont impose sanctions...Russia will continue unhindered true. The US is impotent when it comes to Russian expansion. But the Obama administration wouldnt weaken NATO, Trump might. And that should be a worry to Europe.

China is in a world of its own. Its already quietly expanding into Africa without anyone saying anything.

 

[ibleedburgundy]

I'm not sure why you seem to think the Russians are going to roll over the US with Trump in office...?
If anything...they've done that for the last 8 years with Obama...pretty much ignored him and did what they wanted.

Actually, Obama put sanctions on Russia to the tune of $280B and they've experienced negative economic growth over that time.

The impact of financial sanctions on the Russian economy

Russia GDP Growth Rate | 1995-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast

 

[ibleedburgundy]

Do you care more (if) Russia did some hacking-ings, or what was learned about Hillary Clinton, the DNC and other creeps in governmental involvement and media collusion through hacking-ings? Or, you dont give a rats ass either way?

Hillary and media bad, but (if) Russian hackers baderer?

I guess its kind of like in a court case when a lawyer blurts out an inappropriate question/statement. Then there is an objection and the judge orders the jury to disregard what they may have learned from the question/statement. Try though they might, it's difficult to unhear what the jury has learned from the exchange.

Keep it civil, please. I gotta go to work and wont be back until tonight. Don't get it locked.

What is "governmental involvement and media collusion in hacking-ings?" I am unclear why you think the Government had anything to do with it.

 

[DM60]

Question, where the emails fabricated, therefore lies or true emails? The rest is another issue around security.

 

[miroslav]

Actually, Obama put sanctions on Russia to the tune of $280B and they've experienced negative economic growth over that time.

The impact of financial sanctions on the Russian economy

Russia GDP Growth Rate | 1995-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast

Again...I would rather have Russia friendly instead of pissed off at the US.
We go and lift sanctions off of Iran with some stupid deal that will most definitely bite us in the ass down the road...and Iran will never be friendly toward the US...never.
So Obama just kicked the can, which he's done so well on a lot of things...let the next generation deal with it.

Anyway...I think it's all speculation about what Trump will or wont do...and I think he may surprise some people once he is finally in office and has a working administration.
We certainly will not do any worse, IMO, because all presidents realize that things are different in office compared to the campaign trail, and they make adjustments.
Trump may change some things on the foreign diplomacy front...but he is not going to do too much to make the US any weaker, militarily or economically. These were cornerstones of his campaign.
AFA NATO...I think there's something there to be looked at..."Europe" might be asked to pick up more of that tab...but I don't see the US weakening its position.

 

[miroslav]

Question, where the emails fabricated, therefore lies or true emails? The rest is another issue around security.

I believe most of them were true...which is why the DNC/Clinton were so pissed about those truths coming out.