Smithers XKR
Well-known member
Roger Waters, I can decide about him really I just dont know whether he is a twat or a narcissist or a geniuos. Perhaps a mixture of all 3I am slightly ambivalent about
Roger Waters, I can decide about him really I just dont know whether he is a twat or a narcissist or a geniuos. Perhaps a mixture of all 3I am slightly ambivalent about
Rick Wright had been fired during the making of "The Wall." He wasn't on "The Final Cut."He wanted to fire Richard Wright and get a session player in on keys because he knew that Rick had more ability than him
He already had Michael Kamen playing keyboards and Gilmour has said that he was often lazy when it came to writing songs and putting ideas down on tape and that Waters would ask him what songs he had and he'd have to reply that he didn't have anything at that moment. And on the album, there were parts that Nick Mason couldn't play, hence Andy Newmark coming in.He wanted his band with a session keyboard player and Dave and Nick as session men
I find that sad, I loved Rick's playing and style. He had a lovely feel. Nick and Dave were the glue that held the band together. I am surprised that Waters wished to replace Nick as he was perfectly capable of playing a 7/4 on "Money". Waters was probably the most inept musician in the band. Just saying. He wrote about Sid, he wrote about abuse at school. Everything he wrote was misery and indulgent. Student self harm and online suicide. I think the bloke is a bit of self indulgant me me me cunt if I am honest. Sorry !!Rick Wright had been fired during the making of "The Wall." He wasn't on "The Final Cut."
He already had Michael Kamen playing keyboards and Gilmour has said that he was often lazy when it came to writing songs and putting ideas down on tape and that Waters would ask him what songs he had and he'd have to reply that he didn't have anything at that moment. And on the album, there were parts that Nick Mason couldn't play, hence Andy Newmark coming in.
I also loved Rick Wright's playing. He was the first keyboardist I ever really took notice of and for me his playing on those early Floyd albums {right up to "The Wall, actually, but particularly up to WYWH} is an unerasable part of the various sounds that Pink Floyd moved through.I loved Rick's playing and style. He had a lovely feel
Right from when I first heard the Floyd and their first two albums were on the way to changing my musical headspace at the time, I dug Nick Mason's drumming. I credit his playing {along with Ginger Baker and Ringo}, simplistic as it was, with being a key component of what became psychedelic and then progressive drumming.Nick and Dave were the glue that held the band together
Thing is, Mason wasn't really much of a drummer ! He was one of those instrumentalists that did the most with the least. He didn't even want to make a go of it as a musician until he saw Cream playing and he'd been in the band for a while then.I am surprised that Waters wished to replace Nick as he was perfectly capable of playing a 7/4 on "Money"
I think that's unfair. Inept implies "shit" and that was never true of Roger Waters. Now, without a doubt, he was the least showy or innovative or "technically good" musician ~ but then, he didn't have to be. All he had to do was keep a solid bass line and he did that. But I think he played good bass lines. They did their job in the songs.Waters was probably the most inept musician in the band
Waters was a package rather than anything individual. He was able to individualize the package. He was a bass player who could sing a bit and write a lot. He was bossy and probably overbearing, but he had a lot to say and music was his vehicle for getting out what was in him.Everything he wrote was misery and indulgent
I honestly dont know Grim, the guy really divides opinions. Sometimes I think he is a genuis, sometimes I think he is a self obsessed up his arse self indulgent twat! Ha ha xxxI also loved Rick Wright's playing. He was the first keyboardist I ever really took notice of and for me his playing on those early Floyd albums {right up to "The Wall, actually, but particularly up to WYWH} is an unerasable part of the various sounds that Pink Floyd moved through.
But in the early days of the band, on their first couple of albums and assorted stuff, I also liked his songwriting. "Paintbox" and "Remember a day" are great songs and I adored "See-saw" the moment I first heard it. In fact, those latter two are songs that nearly always whisk me back to the summer of '79.
Right from when I first heard the Floyd and their first two albums were on the way to changing my musical headspace at the time, I dug Nick Mason's drumming. I credit his playing {along with Ginger Baker and Ringo}, simplistic as it was, with being a key component of what became psychedelic and then progressive drumming.
David Gilmour was an important guitarist and singer, especially when he first came into the band. He was such a different kind of guitarist to Syd {interestingly, he says he taught Syd a lot of guitar when they were younger}, almost an invisible guitar player, dealing in sounds and textures and colours, yet if you took the guitar out of the mix, the music would flounder. To be honest, that was Pink Floyd all over. No one member was ahead of the curve, no one member was outstanding or up there with their individual contemporaries. They were the prime example of the whole that is greater than the sum of its parts.
Thing is, Mason wasn't really much of a drummer ! He was one of those instrumentalists that did the most with the least. He didn't even want to make a go of it as a musician until he saw Cream playing and he'd been in the band for a while then.
Nick came from a fairly privileged background and didn't seem hungry. He was a better visual drummer than he was an actual drummer. He looked great on those drums. By the way, his autobiography is one of the best rock memoirs out there.
You know, when the Floyd were recording their debut album, he couldn't play the drum figure that Rick Wright wanted for "Remember a day." In the end, it got held off the album and put on the follow-up "A Saucerful of secrets." Their producer Norman Smith played drums on it. So him not being able to play certain parts wasn't something that only came up during the sessions for "The Final Cut."
And it's not something that beset only Nick Mason. Black Sabbath came close to sacking Bill Ward {in my opinion a fantastic drummer} because he couldn't get the part on "Children of the grave," I think it was. Ringo left the Beatles during the recording of the White album because he couldn't get the part Paul Mac wanted for "Back in the USSR." In the end, it's John, Paul and George all playing the drum part. Charlie Watts couldn't get the drum part on "You can't always get what you want" and the producer Jimmy Miller had to play it. Peter Criss doesn't even drum on any of the songs on "Unmasked" ¬> Anton Fig does. Dennis Wilson isn't the drummer of a number of Beach Boys records, Hal Blaine is. Popular music history is chock-full of instances where a particular instrumentalist or singer couldn't nail the part and so someone that could was brought in to do it.
I think that's unfair. Inept implies "shit" and that was never true of Roger Waters. Now, without a doubt, he was the least showy or innovative or "technically good" musician ~ but then, he didn't have to be. All he had to do was keep a solid bass line and he did that. But I think he played good bass lines. They did their job in the songs.
Waters was a package rather than anything individual. He was able to individualize the package. He was a bass player who could sing a bit and write a lot. He was bossy and probably overbearing, but he had a lot to say and music was his vehicle for getting out what was in him.
Yes, he did reflect a lot on the more miserable side of things, but then, was that any worse than the writers that constantly wrote "love" songs of joy while their love lives were falling apart ?
Let's face it, people bought Floyd albums in their droves and there is a sizeable number of people that said sayonara to the band after Waters left.
It is confusingI honestly dont know Grim, the guy really divides opinions. Sometimes I think he is a genuis, sometimes I think he is a self obsessed up his arse self indulgent twat! Ha ha xxx
Maybe or a genious? I think of him as a dick one day then a prophet the next day. Its confusing mateRoger is an asshole....
Cheers
Richard Wright xxxI honestly dont know Grim, the guy really divides opinions. Sometimes I think he is a genuis, sometimes I think he is a self obsessed up his arse self indulgent twat! Ha ha xxx
Richard Wright xxx
That's a decision for the listener. The artist in question doesn't do that. Which is partly why the artist and their pronouncements, either on their recordings or in the press, make for such interesting conversation.Sometimes you have to separate the person from the art
No it's not, only you are confused.It is confusing
Yes you are right. I do like Rog and his work. But sometimes he is difficult to get your head around. Its brilliant at times but self indulgent maudling stuff at other times. Always thought provoking though. Thats all I say xxxNo it's not, only you are confused.
Cheers
I would just say that I could not get the meaning or the understanding of the later section of The Wall film. I just did not get it. I did not wish for a Hollywood ending but I wanted some hope.No it's not, only you are confused.
Cheers
Gilmour was Waters session player. As was Rick... Waters had two brilliant musicians to create his art.I've been reading such articles for a number of years now regarding Waters. Sometimes you have to separate the person from the art. The Waters discography is the post Waters Floyd continuation without a doubt but I give Gilmour his due. His guitar playing is emotive and watching him play makes you think it is effortless for him. I find Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell solid albums. I've been listening to both of these a lot the last couple months, particularly for the guitar work. 1984 About Face is a solid solo album as well.
As to remaking Dark Side of the Moon, perhaps Waters will do as decent an interpretation as was done for Dub Side of the Moon. Both will be missing something, Gilmour.
The point is that there are so many technical guitar players who can play so many notes a second but very few can express like this beautiful playing xxxxGilmour was Waters session player. As was Rick... Waters had two brilliant musicians to create his art.
That is definately one assessment and many would agree. But I think it is a bit more complex than that. He is a complex man who provokes debate. I think he writes great music and it is up to others to decide.Roger is an asshole....
Cheers