BEST UNDERRATED GUITARISTS---------

John,
It's hard to imagine a piece like "Where Were You?" by Jeff Beck and think that that doesn't require immense concentration to pull off. But on the other hand, maybe he couldn't pull it off if he DID have to concentrate. It would have to be just flowing or it wouldn't work. I think a true test is to record oneself improvising (which is all I ever do 'cause I'm too lazy to work out solos) and listen back. You know you are getting somewhere if you find yourself saying "did I play that?" and not "I can't believe I played THAT!"

peace.
 
well here are some cats that blow my rocker-

-nils cline-this man is extroardinary, his latest release
was a tribute to the john coltrane album interstellar space.he also plays with greg bendians interzone.his grasp of the instrument is on par with mclaughlin, or di meola but his stuff is fresh cause this guy is in his prime.his stuff is free imporov that swings hard, and one of his albums also has an electric harpist sitting in, they get into all this swirling feedback and abstract improv-its killer.

-kenny burrell-just listen to the album he did with trane-this guy had no trouble keeping up with the greats

-jim hall-so understated and sublime.his style of accompanyment is the essence of sophistication.

-frank zappa-ive got a bunch of live cd's of his-the way his early 70's groups would get down is just incredible

-joe morris-this man is SO out there-be warned his music is abrasive and abstract jazz in the tradition of cecil taylor.you may not like his stuff, but nobody ive heard sounds like him

-ralph towner-this guy is for real.intelligent and able
 
Thank you, effedupstrat, probably lots of us don't work out solos note-for-note (the only one I remember doing was Ry Cooder's slide part on John Hiatt's Lipstick Sunset) but we try to do good any how. This also echoes Mr Wes' comment above. You don't have to copy somebody better than you (which, in my case, so many are) to sound good. I have spent the holidays mixing down 20 years of old tapes to put on CD on my computer rig and thinking, whilst listening, that doesn't sound half bad! But you know, if I was listening to myself play somebody else's parts 20 years ago, I would think it was pretty damn pitiful.
John
 
John Weigel


Have you ever noticed that no matter what rig you play through or what guitar is in your hands, even if it's an acoustic, it just sounds like you? I play instrumental rock in the Vai, Satriani vein and I don't work out every note of every solo either. But, my whole world shook with vengence when I heard For The Love Of God by Vai. I, of course, was blown away by the soloing in that song but when I heard the live version on G-3, I thought my life was over.

He played it exactly the same live as he did on the studio recording.

I don't know what I'm going to do now.

Probably try to learn the solos I've recorded so far.

All 20,000 notes of them.

If I ever meet Steve Vai, I'm going to punch him in the nose.

;-]
 
effedupstrat,

In my own experience it's been true that sometimes you can work on something and work on something and somehow it just never clicks. I am a staunch advocate of the "record yourself and listen back" approach. It's been a revelation to me; just that little distance is so good for you.

(I think I recall reading that Jeff Beck had a very difficult time working out "Where Were You?" But I've seem him perform it live twice and he sure does it.)

I also like to occasionally learn solos or parts that knock me out, but I'm basically lazy and rarely try too hard. Currently I'm thinking about trying to learn Robert Fripp's parts on "FraKctured" from The ConstruKction of Light -- I must be nuts! (And I'll probably never get through more than the first section and maybe the first few bars of the second...). A lot of times this process wakes me up about an area where my technique is undeveloped or spins off some ideas that I might not have had otherwise.

robert jaybird,

Some good picks there, but I wouldn't call Jim Hall or Kenny Burrell or Frank Zappa "underrated." I often see them listed as people's favorites or as big influences, particularly Hall.

But hey, that's minor... I guess anyone we personally dig deeply can be considered underrated if everyone else doesn't agree...

-AlChuck
 
Most Underrated Guitar players!:

Barney Kessel (anyone ever heard of him?)
Dave Manley (check him out @ mp3.com/davemanley
ME

These guys are Fuckin CRAZY! Artistically and TECHNICALLY!

latah :-)
 
Sure have heard of Barney Kessel.

But haven't heard of Dave Manley... thanks for the turn-on.

-AlChuck
 
If you ever have a chance to listen to Cry Me A River by Julie London [a person with her own interesting history: she later played a nurse in the '70's Emergency! series and was married to Dragnet's Jack Webb and later Bobby Troup, who played a doctor in the show with her*] you will hear the sparest of spare jazz guitar by Barney Kessel, standup bass by Ray Leatherwood, and vocals by you know who. One of my alltime favorite recordings, and it was even a hit for her -- in 1955. It is available on CD (where I now have it -- has anybody else experienced the sudden proliferation of clicks and pops in their vinyl records that possession of a CD player seems to cause?**). Barney Kessel later concentrated on LA Studio life (I have heard he was on a lot of '60's teenage rock hits) and sometimes touring. As good as anybody ever got, for that Charlie Christian-influenced, swing electric with traces of bop. He was in a group with Herb Ellis and a couple of other jazz git players, but memory grows furtive. Definitely great and probably underrated, too.
John
________
*footnote: how do I know? My wife watches every episode on TVland!
** this question is not for thirtysomethings or under.
 
John:

I'd probably be Soliari to Vai's Mozart and just stand there shaking with the combination rage/jealousy that can only come from being bested and being bested badly. ;-]
 
John Weigel,


Good call on Nels Cline. I'll admit, I have very limited exposure to his work. He plays lots of guitar on Mike Watt's (ex-minutemen and firehose) first solo record. Really out-of-this-world playing! It really is light-years away from the rock stuff I'm accustomed to. I understand he was/is the guitarist of the Geraldine Fibbers but I'm not too familiar with them either. Still, what I've heard...
 
Wes,
I know what you mean about always sounding like yourself no matter what you play through. I guess that its cool to know that you aren't aping anyone else's style. But sometimes it just bothers me to hear my playing. That's usually when I dive into the effects pile. To that end, today I just built a talk-box and I'm pretty psyched to use it at practice tomorrow night.(I promise I won't play "Do You Feel Like We Do" or "Haitian Divorce" or "She's a Woman"...wait, maybe the last one.) New sounds kinda throw me off my usual track and suggest different ways to play. Of course, after a while it all just sounds like me again. Maybe I just need to buy more guitars, yeah that's it, more guitars.....

HONEY!!!
 
John Weigel

That's a great question. I think the reason our own playing irritates us it that we know exactly how we do it. The beauty of seeing someone/anyone else play is that there's some mystery to it. I've had lots of people come up to me and say "Wow, that was AWESOME! How did you do that?" And, I'm sitting there going "What? That was just normal me playing my normal nothing stuff." When, in fact, I've seen still pictures and video of myself from the audience's view and I'm going "What the hell am I doing there?"

But, to answer your question, even though I've got some pretty weird stuff up my sleeve, I think that if Vai really wanted to (and I can't think of a reason he would), he could play my licks. But, if I really wanted to, I bet I could play his licks note for note too. I just don't see the point, when I'm trying to express my individuality, of screwing up how I view the fretboard or where my hands are going with someone else's stuff.

Great question though. Really provacative thinking.
 
effedupstrat


Just don't bust out with Livin' On a Prayer or any other Bon Jovi stuff. ;-]

I know exactly where you're coming from. Whenever I'm starting to bore myself with too much speed or whatever, I go to my Floorboard and kick on the wah. I was just messing around with The Blood and Tears by Vai and the muther------- changed a note in one of the lines by quickly depressing the wah and releasing it. Here I was trying to find this mystery note and he hadn't moved a finger!

Sometimes I want to kill that guy. ;-]

And, then I remember how much I've learned from him without ever learning any of his stuff note for note. That's what I love about playing. Just hear something and be influenced by it then do it your own way.

Although, from time to time, I just want to know exactly how something was played. So, I learn a snippet, smile to myself, and go back to bein' me. ;-]
 
Hey Wes...

funny, everytime I plug it the old cry baby...voodoo child...can't help it...it just happens... :P
 
On the other side to that...

Plug in the talk box...you just have to do the first part of Alice In Chain's "Man in a Box"...

I also do a interesting version of "Ghost Riders in the Sky" [Ventures version]if I have enough liqiud courage in me...
;)
 
How about;

Joni Mitchell, Trevor Rabin, Robin Trower, Steve Rothery(Marillion), Daryl Stuermer(J.L. Ponty, Phil Collins)
 
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