at what point do you call yourself an Audio Engineer?

thajeremy

registered abuser
Although I have a full time 48 hr a week job, I have been a Home Rec'er for 7+ years now. I have recorded plenty here in my studio, and also worked in at least 2 other local studios with other engineers on many projects. One of my clients, a Christian Rapper, was recently signed with a smaller record lable that is distrubted through Universal Records. Another has been grammy nominated 4 seperate years in over 20 catigories combined. There is also a group currently working on a deal with a subsidiary of Bad Boy Records.

Anyway....some people have gone to school to learn the art of recording, mixing, mastering, and whatnot...some make a full time living at it. While some are like me...working a regular full time job and happend to get into recording as a hobby and makes a few $$$ here and there....so at what point, when someone asks, "what do you do?" would you say, "Im an audio engineer."
 
I've always thought of the word "professional" as meaning what one does as a profession not necessarily relating to the quality of their work. Now granted if one is making a living out a given skill the probability of them being better than someone who doesn't is higher but not always the case. I know of several pro engineers that for whatever reason left the business, that makes them no less skilled but they are no longer "professionals" at least by my definition.

I guess to answer your question , you are what allows you to eat.
 
....so at what point, when someone asks, "what do you do?" would you say, "Im an audio engineer."

If it's paying the bills, you can say it. Otherwise, you say: "I do audio engineering."

I'm a home recordist, so I wouldn't say either. I don't even call myself a home recordist with most people, cuz that's such a sad bastard terminology. I say: "I write and record and make CDs."

Anyway, why do you ask? Do you want to describe yourself as an audio engineer? I see no harm in it if it doesn't create storms of controversy in your life lol.
 
When that's what others knowledgeable on the subject call you based upon your actions.

G.

I'd say thats a good way of putting it.

In terms of when that time may be, I'd say its when you are competent enough to be able to listen well, know or be told what you want to achieve, and to be able to efficiently achieve that using the tools available to you.
 
wow...I forgot that I had asked this and never came back to check it...


I've always thought of the word "professional" as meaning what one does as a profession not necessarily relating to the quality of their work. Now granted if one is making a living out a given skill the probability of them being better than someone who doesn't is higher but not always the case. I know of several pro engineers that for whatever reason left the business, that makes them no less skilled but they are no longer "professionals" at least by my definition.

I guess to answer your question , you are what allows you to eat.

If I had a degree in Physics and worked 25 years as a rocket scientist for NASA, then during the past year or so got laid off and was a greeter at walmart, would I not still be a rocket scientist???

dobro said:
Anyway, why do you ask? Do you want to describe yourself as an audio engineer? I see no harm in it if it doesn't create storms of controversy in your life lol.

Its not that I necessarly want to call myself that...I do want to make my living in the studio, and I think at this point, I have built a good foundation and Im working with some of the right people, and eventually, I hope that is how I can pay my bills....
 
If I had a degree in Physics and worked 25 years as a rocket scientist for NASA, then during the past year or so got laid off and was a greeter at walmart, would I not still be a rocket scientist???
You'd either be an out-of-work rocket scientist or a retired rocket scientist, depending upon whether you wanted to get back in the game or not.

Which brings up a related point (this is all for fun); if you were a rocket scientist for 25 years and were out of it for long enough to not be up-to-date on your knowledge or skills, even it that time were only a couple of years, you'd be an ex-rocket scientist.

And while Tom V. and I usually agree on most things, I personally and respectfully disagree with the definition of "professional" as one who makes a living doing it (the Oxford dictionary be damned.) More than half the people who make a living doing anything, regardless of the field or job description, are lousy at what they do and do not comport themselves or execute their jobs in a professional manner. They are not professionals. A hack who manages to make a career out of "getting by" is not a professional, even if he makes a million dollars a year doing it, IMHO.
I have built a good foundation and Im working with some of the right people
When those people, when talking about you behind your back, call you an audio engineer in a non-disparaging tone, you are an audio engineer.

G.
 
More than half the people who make a living doing anything, regardless of the field or job description, are lousy at what they do and do not comport themselves or execute their jobs in a professional manner. They are not professionals. A hack who manages to make a career out of "getting by" is not a professional, even if he makes a million dollars a year doing it, IMHO.

Well put. I think both of you have good points though.

I am still searching for a different answer; When can I stop calling myself a noob?
 
I might have a bit of a different perspective on this since I'm an engineering manager at a big ugly electronics firm...

You can call yourself whatever you want whenever you want if it feels right to you, BUT.. if you're going to advertise yourself as an engineer and charge money for your services based upon that self-titling, you'll need to be able to back it up with either a degree or experience in a recognized studio or similar institution. usually more than 7 years. There may be some legal ramifications should anything ever go badly... not that it ever will, but it could... and if you play the odds, it will.
That said, I only have experience with EEs, MEs & Physicists, so maybe it's different in the audio world.
My company might title you as an analyst if you were top notch, but never an engineer.
Maybe you can think of it this way:
I perform surgery at home when I get off work because (I think) I'm good at it, I enjoy it and own a complete set of steak knives... nobody died yet, so I hang a shingle out that says PhD... does this make sense?
 
If I had a degree in Physics and worked 25 years as a rocket scientist for NASA, then during the past year or so got laid off and was a greeter at walmart, would I not still be a rocket scientist???

Maybe, just not a "professional" one. See some definitions below:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/professional

And as I mentioned the word "professional" is not necessarily a measure of the quality of one's work, just an indication that if they are doing the work as part of a living for several years they are most likely doing good work.

E.G. My mother is a very good cook, however I would not call her a "chef". Even if I like some of her meals more than those that I get at a high profile restaurant.
 
an indication that if they are doing the work as part of a living for several years they are most likely doing good work.
All evidence to the contrary. Just some personal examples:

My mother's primary care physician has been a doctor for some 15 years now, and the guy is a complete hack who I don't trust with her health any further than I can throw a battleship. This is not just personal bias on my part; as she has other doctors (her diabetes and thyroid doctor, her cardiologist, etc.) who out of professional courtesy never directly disparage the guy, but I can almost set my clock by the times when they have to correct or append some bad or missing diagnoses or treatment that he gives or advises. But folks like my mom won't change doctors because "Oh, he's so nice."

And, BTW, when was the last time you met a nurse who you actually trusted to take proper care of a friend or family member while in the hospital? Hell, you're lucky to find one that can draw blood better than your average leech.

I have a friend who is an independent building contractor who does a lot of re-building/refurbishing work who is constantly coming home with detailed horror stories of the building they work on with absolutely shoddy workmanship that not only often times barely meets code (if at all), but barely even makes sense when you look at how it's done. When you get called in to paint a *brand new wall* and you first have to first re-nail, re-joint and re-spackle the three-week-old wall because there are a dozen nail heads sticking out and visible seams at the drywall joints, done by a licensed and bonded contractor, there's something horribly wrong. Or how about those home foundations that you can visibly see have 8" walls that vary in widh by a good 3" and look like they've been drawn free-hand by a 6-yr-old?

I worked in software development for many years, and I can tell you with certainty that it's not unusual to find big-budget software development firms that have project architects with absolutely no training or knowledge in the industry for which they are developing the software, developers that had no training or experience in the language in which the project is being written, QA checkers who know nothing about testing software outside of following a basic checklist, and who purposely push out as production versions software versions which fail the beta testing phase just to meet deadlines. How very professional.

And do you even want me to go down the road of talking about the idiot stock brokers, traders, and bankers who followed on blind faith practices which made no sense whatsoever by even the fundamentals of economics, simply because that's what their neighbors were doing, and almost brought the entire world economy to it's knees?

And as far as audio engineering, I have just one thing to say. Turn on the radio and listen for yourself.

The vast majority of the work force is in the wrong line of work, or in over their heads in job position even when they are in the right line of work. But because the consumer has become just as lazy as they have, there is no "invisible hand of competition" when the consumer is willing to accept shoddy work without putting up a stink anywhere except to their neighbors at the backyard barbecue.

G.
 
Glen you seem very argumentative today so I'm not going to spend time debating opposing opinion.

But "all evidence to the contrary"?

REALLY?
 
To me it's about roles...

To me it's about roles...Engineer, Drummer, Vocalist, Chef etc...

Example: "Tom playsdrums professionally...he was the drummer on that album, the hired gun...he sucks, but he was the drummer". Or..."Tom plays drums as a hobby, he was the drummer on that recording, listen to him, hes burnin!"

"Professional" is an umbrella term for sure...some think, if your getting paid, your a professional...I disagree, there is much more to it than that, like how you carry yourself.

I am not a professional...but I do take on the role of audio engineer, I may suck at it, but I sit in that chair and do that work.



Thanks,
Scott
 
And, BTW, when was the last time you met a nurse who you actually trusted to take proper care of a friend or family member while in the hospital? Hell, you're lucky to find one that can draw blood better than your average leech.
G.
Bad hair day?. Nurses are generally held to a higher degree of professionalism than most. What you said, that's just wrong
 
Well I can relate, Glen... and I'm pretty much a realist, but I'm holding on to the hope that it's not the 'vast majority' in the wrong line of work..

For skilled and even so-called unskilled professions, I used to think in these terms:

Top-most performers (meaning truly better than the rest)

Average Performers (nobody and I mean nobody thinks they fit here, yet it could mean we have a LOT of really smart people, or a lot of really dumb people, or we have a lot of not smart, not dumb... (simple middle majority)).

People who suck (okay, poor performers)

people who cheat (overembelished, lied, stole the answers, whatever.. but got the job, and eventually get caught)

Nowadays I divide more into two catagories:

Give a shit
Don't Give a shit
 
To me it's about roles...Engineer, Drummer, Vocalist, Chef etc...

Example: "Tom playsdrums professionally...he was the drummer on that album, the hired gun...he sucks, but he was the drummer". Or..."Tom plays drums as a hobby, he was the drummer on that recording, listen to him, hes burnin!"

"Professional" is an umbrella term for sure...some think, if your getting paid, your a professional...I disagree, there is much more to it than that, like how you carry yourself.

I am not a professional...but I do take on the role of audio engineer, I may suck at it, but I sit in that chair and do that work.

Ok another analogy to demonstrate the distinction with less positive overtones on being a pro:

Slut (non-professional)
Whore (professional)

So I guess the question that you have to ask yourself is if you are an audio whore or a slut.
 
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