MusicWater
Banned
Good luck!
A very frustrated musician. (Particularly need help with recording lead guitar)
- Thread starter McK
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Good luck!
DM60
Well-known member
It is not out of tune, it may not be the most pleasing. To be out of tune, you tuning to 432 and everyone else on 440, then you would be out of tune.
So maybe it is being stated wrong. 432 tuning, in your opinion is a more pleasing sound than 440. But it everyone is on 440, only those using a different standard is out of tune.
MusicWater
Banned
But is your latest negative comments not only a result of your ego? We have, or at least many have, already provided help to OP regarding the thread topic, derailing a little, what's the big deal... especially when what I have shared will help tons and tons of more engineers in a greater way and possibly help OP with his issue too. (depending on what exactly he really does not like about his tone in this case, I cannot know that)
MusicWater
Banned
Please rewind a little, I never even said 432Hz, when I said the 440 Hz standard tuning is out of tune I meant that, but many thought I meant that in contrast to the standard 432 Hz tuning. I said that a good first step is to get a multitone sine wave generator, then dial in the frequencies of the standard 440 Hz tuning and make your own conclusion about whether that's in tune or not. Because if it is, then fine, never think about it again. If it is not, then THAT might be an issue, a BIG one worth looking very closely into... Am I saying that to destroy the thread, derail and piss engineers off? NO, I'm saying it to guide YOU forward, because I want to help make you aware that this might really be worth looking into. I cannot know how you perceive the standard 440 Hz tuning, but I know how I perceive it...
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Now you're just dancing around it.
If you want to separate facts from fiction...clarify what your 432 stance is and why you seem to be promoting it over anything else.
All that "dig deeper"...and "it's important not to go too fast"...blah, blah, blah....it's you trying to make some point without saying a damn thing.
Just tell us what are you saying....and spit it out in as few words as possible and make sense when you do.
You make way too many posts where you allude to certain audio stuff, without ever clearly stating anything, and THAT is what makes your posts appear as though you really don't know.
You're just fishing and trying to get a handle on something that is not clear to you...without appearing like you don't really know what you're talking about.
Well...it's not working for you.
MusicWater
Banned
I'm simply stating that the standard 440 Hz tuning is out of tune, be aware. If you are skeptical, get yourself a multitone sine wave generator.
Will it help resolve OPs issue too? Probably...
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
What relevance does that have to anything?
It's like, you're saying THAT....while simultaneously implying that there is a different reference that is NOT "out of tune"....and that reference happens to be 432.
Get this....(last attempt)
The 440 reference has NOTHING, NADA, ZIPO to do with the TUNING.
It's a 12 interval octave...ANY A= reference will have the SAME issues as 440.
You need to find something other than the western 12 interval octave to change the tuning...but none are perfect for every kind of music or every kind of instrument.
It's like, you're saying THAT....while simultaneously implying that there is a different reference that is NOT "out of tune"....and that reference happens to be 432.
Get this....(last attempt)
The 440 reference has NOTHING, NADA, ZIPO to do with the TUNING.
It's a 12 interval octave...ANY A= reference will have the SAME issues as 440.
You need to find something other than the western 12 interval octave to change the tuning...but none are perfect for every kind of music or every kind of instrument.
DM60
Well-known member
But that is just wrong. To be in tune or out of tune is relative to a "standard" pitch. The Western world has determined A=440. The rest is pure speculation and opinion. That would be like me telling a Sitar player from India his instrument is out of tune. I don't think they use 440 or 432 or whatever as a bases for traditional Indian music. Therefore "out of tune" the way you stated makes no sense.
If you stated another tuning standard is more pleasing, better sounding, then that is a totally different argument and more of an opinion. Not a matter of fact.
The biggest issue with your statement is, you are making your opinion as fact.
MusicWater
Banned
What relevance does that have to anything?
It's like you're saying that, and simultaneously implying that there is a different tuning that is NOT "out of tune....and that happens to be 432.
Get this....(last attempt)
The 440 reference has NOTHING, NADA, ZIPO to do with the TUNING.
It's a 12 interval octave...ANY A reference will have the SAME issues as 440.
You need to find something other than the western 12 interval octave to change the tuning...but none are perfect for every kind of music or every kind of instrument.
I said the STANDARD 440Hz tuning, then I mean of course the equal temperament.
Equal Temperament
MusicWater
Banned
Out of tune means that the frequencies of each tone in the scale are out of tune in relation to one another. If you think not, I ask you to buy a multitone sine wave generator, dial in the frequencies of the standard 440 Hz (equal temperament) and see whether you think it sounds sweet or not. WARNING: It could be the best thing you ever did...
DM60
Well-known member
Not if every thinks it sounds good.
After 150+ years of using this tuning, and all of the music that has been played by millions over the generations, then everyone is tone deaf and your statement is no longer relevant. Your "out of tune" is our "in tune". Until you can change everyone's perception of "In Tune".
MusicWater
Banned
That's why I try to desperately make people understand that they are all wrong. If you don't trust your ears, at least trust your eyes. Because when you insert the tones of the standard 440 Hz equal temperament scale you will notice the meters jump like crazy. Why? Because it's out of tune. A B major chord should not have the meters jump up and down like you would have a chorus effect applied... Just a simple quick look to your meters followed by a clear thinking process, will make you realize oh wait a minute, this is not good and the scope of it is enormous...
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
the problems with the even tempered scale are well known ....... changing the standard to 432 will NOT do anything at all to fix that.
The ONLY way is to get exactly true intervals would be to go to mathematically correct intervals which is what they did prior to Bach.
But when you do that you can only play in 4 or 5 keys because the others sound way out of tune. So even tempered tuning was devised to compromise and allow all keys to be played.
That's why Bach was the first to write in all 12 major and minor keys with 'The Well Tempered Clavichord' ...... tuning pianos has been my profession for a lot of years and I know it well.
Your suggestion that tuning to 432 will fix even tempered tunings' issues is nonsense.
You should be banned for spouting nonsense in the newbies forum and the fact that the mods/admin don't do that shows us that they don't really care about newbies learning anything.
MusicWater
Banned
Great Bob, now read the thread again, see if you can find anywhere where I promoted the use of the standard 432 Hz scale.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Wrong in what way and about what?
You're constantly stating the obvious....everyone already knows that the 12-TET octave is not perfect. Piano tuners "stretch" the tuning to make it sound best.
However...that has NOTHING to do with the A=440 reference.
Why are you not seeing that or intentionally ignoring it and implyng it's the 440 reference that is the problem...???
Using any A=reference with the 12-TET tuning will have the SAME tuning issues that you're going on and on about....the intervals do NOT change just because you use something other than 440 for the A=reference.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
I've read the whole thing ...... you're wrong and should be banned.
DM60
Well-known member
Now that is just plain silly. That's like saying she must be pretty, she has a good voice.
You now know, based on that statement, you are not making sense. Nobody listens to music with their eyes. You don't either. You may convince your brain what you hear is better, but you still hear with your ears.
MusicWater
Banned
Now that is just plain silly. That's like saying she must be pretty, she has a good voice.
You now know, based on that statement, you are not making sense. Nobody listens to music with their eyes. You don't either. You may convince your brain what you hear is better, but you still hear with your ears.
I said that when you don't trust your ears and obviously you don't, then I say but at least quickly glean at the meters and watch them jump up and down. If you don't even want to try that, then I guess you can't lead a donkey to the water.
No it's a result of you being a troll.
MusicWater
Banned
Not at all. Just like I asked the piano tuner to watch the meters, do so yourself. Then come back and claim I'm a troll. ha
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