Cubasis MIDI- If you don't know... its over

[SirRiff]

Greetings,

I would imagine the Cubasis MIDI setup resembles Cubase sooo...


Under the audio inputs section do you need to have a MIDI port listed for MIDI recording to work?

My inputs list as Wav L and Wav R. My stereo audio works. But my midi doesnt.....do I have to activate an input? Should there be a MIDI port listed there?

I'm using my Alesis SR16 drum maching in to my SBLIVE card just to sequence some drums...but nothing I have tried to get it going has worked.

If you guys don't know, I will give up digital recording and go back to recording into the mic hole of my getto blaster.

SirRiff

 

[JimH]

Nooooo! Don't go back to the ghetto blaster. I only have Cubase so I'll tell you how it works in there.

Do you have another program in your Steinberg folder separate from Cubase called "Setup MME"? If so, run that. From in there you should see a list of the computer's MIDI inputs and outputs. The SBLive should be listed there. Set the SBLive as "enabled". Then close the program.

Run Cubasis. You won't see the MIDI ports listed in Audio Setup. Instead you should see them in the MIDI System Setup dialog, which you can find under "MIDI Setup" in the Options menu. Open up the MIDI System Setup dialog box. There is a section there called "Input From" where you can enable the SBLive for input.

That should be all you need to do. Go to a MIDI track in the arrange window and click on the Out column. You should see the SBLive MIDI port listed there. This is where you select the MIDI output port. Note that there may be two MIDI output ports on your sound card. One is for the internal sounds in the card. The other is the external MIDI port, which is the one you are interested in. That one often has something in the name like like "MPU-401" (because external MIDI ports emulate the original Roland MPU-401 MIDI interface card).

Perhaps someone else who owns Cubasis can give you a more specific answer. Anyway, let us know how you make out.

 

[SirRiff]

well them

Greetings

To paraphrase George of Seinfeld,

"I say this with an unblemished record of stanch hetrosexuality, your fabulous"

Unfortunately I still can't record midi.

I did as you said with the MME setup, I now see a SBlive output, which would definately help me hear my midi, if i could record it.

Its messed, I pick a midi track, tell it to record from "any", set my drum machine to output midi (it does on channel one).
Then I tried 100 ways to click record, but no notes appear.?
I tried dragging a midi part open, and I can click and create notes, but it won't record from the drum machine. I can't think of anything else. I got one of those midi connections to 16pin soundcard adapter wires, but I would imagine thats exactly what its made for so...

Thanks for the answer Jim, its right on the mark it seems, but it just won't record notes.
Arif

P.S.- what really pisses me off is that there are 12yr olds putting out CD's made of Midi layer synth sounds, and I can't even put a snare drum down.

 

[JimH]

MIDI can be a pain sometimes.

OK, recording first. First thing you need to do is make sure that you've got MIDI coming out of the SR16 when you hit the pads. If there is a way to enable/disable the MIDI output in the SR16 (which I'm not familiar with), make sure it's enabled. Find out what MIDI channel it's sending on. It may be channel 10, which is common for drums. But any channel is OK.
It's helpful if you can confirm that the SR16 is actually outputting MIDI. One way to do this is with another keyboard or sound module if you have one. Plug the MIDI output of the drum machine into the MIDI input of the sound module. Set up the sound module to receive MIDI on the same channel that the SR16 is sending MIDI. Play the SR16 pads and see if you hear any notes playing from the module. If you don't have another sound module, that's OK. You can skip this paragraph. Sometimes it's helpful to take the computer completely out of the picture to confirm that your are sending MIDI.

OK, now on to recording into the computer. Plug the SR16 MIDI output back into the SBLive MIDI input. (The adapter you have should be fine.) Go into the "Setup MME" program and make sure that the SBLive is listed under MME inputs. It should not say "Inactive:" before the SBLive name. If it does, press "Set active" to activate it. Close the program and open up Cubasis.

Go to the Options menu and open up the MIDI System Setup dialog box. You should see a dropdown list called "Input From". Look in this list and make sure SBLive is listed that and make sure it is enabled. It is enabled if it has a checkmark next to it. If it doesn't, click on it to enable it. This tells Cubasis to listen to MIDI notes coming from the SBLive. For other settings in this dialog box, you can set MIDI thru as disabled. You should set "MIDI Input" and Mapped to" to the SBLive. Then exit this dialog.

Now play the pads on the SR16. Look at the MIDI indicator lights on the Cubasis transport bar. You should see the red input indicator light up when you play the pads. If you don't see this, then Cubasis is not seeing anything coming from the SR16. There is still a problem and you need to stop and figure out what it is. It doesn't matter what MIDI channel the SR16 is sending on; you should see the light as long as MIDI notes on any channel are being received by Cubasis. If you don't see the light, the problem could be either in the SR16 or the computer and it's hard to know which. (That's why it's helpful to use another sound module to confirm that the SR16 is at least sending MIDI notes. That would tell you that the computer is not setup correctly somehow.) Read the SR16 manual and do what you can to make sure it's setup correctly to output MIDI. One thing you can try is to loop the MIDI output of the SR16 back into it's input. Then when you play sounds on the pads they should sound doubled, or phased, because each sound is playing twice with the second one being slightly delayed. I guess the cymbals would be the easiest sound with which to hear this.

If you tried all this and still can't get the Cubasis MIDI indicator to light up, post again. I'm not sure if I have any ideas left, though.

Output
---------
You didn't say whether you got the output to work correctly. But you did do the right thing. You should manually create some MIDI notes in a part and then play the part to see if it works. Set the output of the track to SBLive and set the channel to the same channel that the SBLive is set to receive. (This is probably channel 10 or maybe even 1. But you can try all of them.) You should see the green MIDI indicator light on the transport bar light up when notes are output. If you don't, then something in Cubasis is not setup correctly. If you do, then the problem is either with the SBLive, the MIDI cable connection, or the SR16 itself. Make sure that the notes you manually created actually correspond to drums in the SR16. Some notes may not correspond to any drum sounds.

Keep trying. If you have any general MIDI questions, remember you can also try posting those in the MIDI forum where you'll probably get a better response.


P.S. I am a computer programmer and I pretty much got started when I was 24, because it wasn't until then that computers were cheap enough that I could get my hands on one. Now I get deflated sometimes when I see 12 yr. olds writing programs, and also when I see programmers who started when they were 8 or 10 and have a much more natural facility for programming than I do.

 

[SirRiff]

Where's my ghetto blaster

Greetings,

Cubase is a pretty well made program, and if I got MIDI working, I could see getting a full version for my fulltime software.

HOWEVER, after reading and implementing all your reasonable, useful suggestions, I was reduced to banging my drummachine against my monitor. Things quickly went downhill from there.

I actually downloaded the Cubase demo just to make sure i was playing with a full set of cards but sill nothing.

The SR16 does have a "Drum out" ON/OFF option under the MIDI section, and even though that seems to assure me that MIDI instructions are indeed being sent, I never saw the activily bar of the track move a bit. Even with the midi input of Cubase set to "any" channel.

I appreciate all your help JimH, if you got any more ideas (even wacky ones) feel free to share, but if your all tapped out tis ok.
I might just have to wait a while and start looking at insanely minor or easily hidden variables. It could be anything from signals are not being sent to sound card isn't doing its job.

As you said, I might have to setup some third party tests.
Anybody else feel free to submit bizzare ideas.

Once again,
Thanks
SirRiff

 

[nattn]

Sir riff,

I think that perhaps you may need to approach your problem from a different angle. I think that you need to check if you can get any midi sounds at all out of your computer. If you can, then you can isolate the midi prob you are having as a connection issue.

Do this:
1. go into cubasis & create a part on one of your midi tracks
(from the drop down menu select >part>create part )
2 Make sure that your part is a midi track & not an audio track.
(a midi track has a little not icon by it, an audio track has a little bow tie by it)
3. double click on the actual part that was created. It should bring up an editing screen.
4. at the left end of the screen is a long keyboard. with your mouse click on some of the keys. Do they make sound? if yes, you have midi. If no, check in audio>options & see what audio sound sources you can select. try them all until you can hear sound.
5. Go back to the midi editor screen right click with your mouse & select the pencil tool.
6. draw in some midi notes using the pencil tool.
7. close out of the editor screen
8. press play. Do you hear the notes? again, if yes ,you have midi & recording capability! congratualtions.


If this works for you, then your problem is with your midi connection or your drum machine. I would make sure that you purchased the correct midi adaptor. the cable has to be specifically for midi, not just a serial cable or something that looks like it will work.

I really hope this helps.

 

[JimH]

I quickly checked an on-line manual for the SR16. It seems like what you're doing to enable MIDI is correct. Although MIDI out is not confirmed (who knows? it could be broken), it's less likely the problem is here.

Another possibility is that your sound card isn't set up right. You can try going into the Control Panel and open up Multimedia. Select the MIDI tab and make sure that SBLive shows up in the list. Select the Devices tab and look under "MIDI Devices and Instruments". Make sure that MIDI for SBLive appears there. Check the Properties for it and make sure that the MIDI features are enabled. Beyond this, you could also find someone on this board who also owns an SBLive and has it working. You can compare and make sure you have everything set up right.

It would help to know if you're at least getting MIDI out because that would confirm that you have a good MIDI cable and that your sound card is at least partly set up correctly. If you're not getting midi out, you could try playing a MIDI file (that has drums in it) using the Windows Media player. This would take Cubase out of the picture.

In Cubase, don't worry so much about the activity light on the track. And don't worry if the track's channel is set to "any". What's important first is whether or not the MIDI activity lights on the transport bar are working. You don't need to try recording yet. You just want to see if Cubase is recognizing MIDI at all.

 

[SirRiff]

Thanka Thanka Thanka

Greetings,

Nattn: I did indeed try what you suggested. I downloaded a midi file (Metallica -nothing else matters, great song, not so great sounding through default midi sounds) and imported in into cubase. All the parts came up labelled across several tracks, and it played back fine. That seems to confirm I have the SB live setup completely for midi identification and playback... Logically anyways.
thankyou for the suggestion

JimH

Your like a midi MacGyver arn't you....seriously.
I recently reinstalled my soundcard files straight off the disk, then went to the sblive site and got the most current update (soundfonts and drivers and such). My sblive synth, creative synth, and MIDI out show up under my mulitimedia options, so I think its all setup right.

I don't get what you said about the transport bar, I'm not sure what bar that is, but I am going to go check it out right now.
I'v actually never seen any response of any kind from cubase.
I just downloaded calkwalk and will see how that work.

I might have to try using the SR16 as a drum module and just playing some preprogramed midi file out of the SBlive, into the SR16, back into my mixer, and listen if the notes are activated.
The only problem is I have been trying to get it to work, so I don't know much about drum note numbers and stuff. But i am getting desperate.

Appreciate all the help guys,
SirRiff

 

[nattn]

one quick question, is your setup like this -- drum machine to computer sound card via midi cable > sound card to mixer > mixer to speakers/monitors?

When you play a pattern in your sr16, so you get sounds out of your speakers? does your mixer register sound via it's level meters?
--if yes, it is fairly safe to assume that all of your connections to your soundcard are ok. This would lead me to believe that your problem lies with how cubasis is configured.

--if no, it really seems like the problem lies somewhere in the connection chain. Again, it is very important that you are using a midi cable to make the connection from your drum module to your soundcard. If you have any doubts that your cable is bad or not the correct one, get another.

one other thing. You have said that you cannot record midi into your cubasis program, yes? Can you record regular audio & have it playback ?

 

[JimH]

Re: Thanka Thanka Thanka

Nattn: I did indeed try what you suggested. I downloaded a midi file (Metallica -nothing else matters, great song, not so great sounding through default midi sounds) and imported in into cubase. All the parts came up labelled across several tracks, and it played back fine. That seems to confirm I have the SB live setup completely for midi identification and playback... Logically anyways.

OK, it's playing back the internal MIDI sounds of the SBLive. In a way, this kind of helps. But so far, you haven't played anything through the external MIDI port on the card so that the SR16 plays, right?
There should be two SBLive outputs for MIDI listed. One is for the internal sounds and the other is for the external MIDI connector. Note that if you select the internal port for output, it does not automatically output the MIDI to the external port as well. You have to specify for each track which one you want MIDI notes to be sent to. You do this in the track's output column.
I'd trying playing the Metallica song again, but go to the track with drums and switch the output column to the SBLive external MIDI port (heck, switch all the tracks). See if the SR16 produces any sound.

JimH

Your like a midi MacGyver arn't you....seriously.

Nope, I just don't want to give up too soon. We have to keep up the homerecording.com reputation.

I don't get what you said about the transport bar, I'm not sure what bar that is, but I am going to go check it out right now.
I'v actually never seen any response of any kind from cubase.
I just downloaded calkwalk and will see how that work.

The transport bar is that floating window that has the buttons for play, stop, rewind, fast forward, etc. You can toggle it on and off by hitting the F12 key. On the right side of it are "in" and "out" indicators for MIDI. You should be seeing the output indicator light up when you play the Metallica song. These lights are the simplest way to know if Cubase is sending or receiving MIDI notes.

I might have to try using the SR16 as a drum module and just playing some preprogramed midi file out of the SBlive, into the SR16, back into my mixer, and listen if the notes are activated.

Yeah exactly, that's the idea. But if you don't hear anything, it doesn't definitely mean that things aren't set up right. It could be that the MIDI note numbers for the drums just don't match. A song may use C1 for a snare drum while a drum machine uses C2. (Why isn't there a standard? Well there's the "General MIDI" standard, but often that isn't followed). The default note assignments are in the SR16 manual. Kick is C1, snare is D2, etc.
You can also try following Nattn's procedure, but this time set the track's output column for the external MIDI port. Go into the SR16's MIDI channel page and see what the channel is set to. Then set the channel of the Cubase track to be the same. (probably 10 or 1) Try playing all of the C and D notes on the keyboard and see if the SR16 makes any sound.

 

[SirRiff]

Greetings,


NAttn- when i recorded my drums as .wav my SR16 goes into my mixer, which goes into my soundcard. I moniter with headphones in the mixer, or through the computer speakers. I know I can hear it from the speakers, but I have not tried monitering the SBlive out into my mixer. I am pretty sure the line out works though.

Its just all the funny 1/8" to 2 RCA connections that annoy me. And its funny because on the SBlive all the 1/8" inputs are spaced 5mm apart...ok for computer connections, not practical for real adapter cables.

I just got a cheap ass cable from a music store, its got a 16 pin connection on one side. with "soundcard" written on it. and two 5 pin MIDI connectors on the other with "IN" and "Out/thru" on it.
Its the right cable, but since its cheap ass, i might have to rule it out with another cable.

I can record audio into my soundcard with cool edit pro and cubase. After i hit record and stop, the audio "part" comes up.
full of noise. But when i record midi no "part" comes up, not even a blank one.



JimH

I dig what your saying but i think i have alrady done that.
My midi options are as follows;

Creative Synth
SbLIVE A: syth
SBlive B: synth
Midi Out [d480]

or something to that effect. So to use my SR16 as a module i will use MIDI out to try to trigger the notes. All my internal synths work, as I can use them to load different soundfonts, banks and such.

I know the MIDI out will have to happen to record my drum sounds to .wav in the mixdown, but recording of the MIDI would have to occur before that, which is what my first obsticle is really.
But I will do the MIDI out test too.

I dig the transport bar now, and yeah the thing lights up with a christmas tree when i play midi.

Yeah i will start testing the midi outputs with the Sr16 as a module, but really, that won't get me recording midi via the sr16, witch at this point is just not looking good.

Once again, thankyou guys for the problem solving,
this board is definately full of good stuff for these high learning curve problems

Down but not out,
SirRiff

 

[nattn]

ok. Now if i'm not mistaken, you need a 15 pin connector to your game port on the back of your SB card, not 16. Now this is probably what you have, but you should probably confirm. Now once I bought a cable that I thought was for midi, but it was not, so definately do not rule out the possibility of a wrong/broken cable.

I'm not sure how you are connecting the midi cable, but just connect the midi/out to the midi/out of your sr16, & then connect the serial side of your cable to the soundcard. Forget the midi/in.

Shut down your puter & restart.

run cubasis.

select a midi channel & confirm that you have selected midi. Selct you output source as creative s/w .

****move you right marker by right clicking down the track about a minute's worth or so. (when trying to emulate what was happening to you, NOT moving my right marker was the only way I was not getting any recording to happen. MAKE SURE THAT THE LEFT & RIGHT MARKERS ARE NOT NEXT TO EACH OTHER *****

start your drum module with a pattern

hit play & then record in cubasis.

how did we do?

 

[SirRiff]

Wait, yeah maybe

Greetings,

Your right, its 15 pin.

The midi connectins have IN/OUT written on them so I don't have them mixed.

I dig exactly what you say man, really I do. If some guy was on here saying he couldn't multi track on Cool Edit Pro I would have to restrain from suggesting his parents were cousins because its so insanely easy, but I just can't get this to work.

I got the IN/OUT plugged into the IN/OUT. I got the 15 pin connector plugged into the sound card. All my internal and external midi connections are listed and would seem to function (although this hasn't been proven yet with the external MIDI output).

Take a midi track and select "any" as input. SEt the SR16 to put MIDI, it goes out on channel 1 so it should show up. I figured that R/L marker thing when i was playing with audio. When I arm a MIDI track, have my SR16 playing and putting midi out, record a short segment, and hit stop....nothing. No part appears.

I think now its either a cable, or a drum note thing.

As a side note, I downloaded Cakewalk SONAR trial version, thinking I may just click record and it would magically work...but no...same thing, can play, can edit, can internal synth...but no recording.

I will try just playing MIDI out on the SR16 for now.
SirRiff

 

[nattn]

Well, i can't figure it out. the only thing I can think of in cubase at least is in cubasis go to >options, & reset your devices. Also make sure that your audio in enabled. I can't for the life of me figure out why you are not able to record.

I just unplugged my midi connection & tried to record to at least see if it would create a part in cubasis. It did not. This leads me to believe that your problem lies somewhere in your connection btwn your drum module & you soundcard.

let's see if what the facts are:

+'s
you can hear midi sounds
you can import a midi file & it plays in cubasis
you can record audio
your drum module works as a stand-alone device & you can record audio with it
your soundcard works both for audio & midi (playback)

I'm almost certain it is your connection. Go to circuit city or to best buy & buy thier midi adaptor kit. It is less than 30 bucks. If it doesn't work after you buy a new cable, look to your drum module as being defective.

cable that would work

midi cable

I've got nothing else for ya. I really hope this works out for you