Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth Problem

R

rguagenti

New member
When I updated to HS2004XL I was not able to play any MIDI sounds through MPU401. I am, however able to use Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth as an output for my MIDI sounds and some of them sound fairly decent through this synth.

I don't remember seeing the Microsoft synth on MC2003.

Anyway, when I try to Mixdown I cannot get any MIDI sounds playing through this output down to Audio. No problem with Eridol VSC or Dreamsation DXi.

What gives?
 
rguagenti said:
[..] some of them sound fairly decent through this synth.
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Well... that depends on what you expect. :rolleyes:


rguagenti said:
What gives?
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You need to connect the output to the input of your soundcard. I don't think you can record the Microsoft GM synth internally...
 
Simple, the DXi synths run IN the program and their "audio" can be created during the mixdown. The Microsoft synth is outside and HS doesn't know what audio data it should make . The only way to get this into the mix is to mute all but the midi tracks and actually record into a new stereo track. The best way to this is to use your soundcards "what U hear" or stereo mix or Line out as the recording source. This is no worse than what you would have to do if using an outboard hardware midi synth/module.

You might consider soloing midi tracks when "re-recording" to audio so that you have the advantage of mixing them as seperate audio tracks per midi instrument. ~This could give you the opportunity to eq and compress them individually. If you want.
 
Ha! I beat you! :p

And I don't think he has a SB card, since he's using the MPU-401 MIDI interface... ;)
 
Moskus,

The MIDI interface on the SB Live card is an MPU-401 and is so labeled, if I recall correctly.
 
AlChuck said:
The MIDI interface on the SB Live card is an MPU-401 and is so labeled, if I recall correctly.
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Not on my SB Live or Audigy... :confused:

Or maybe it was "SB Live! MPU-401". If it's only "MPU-401", then my bet is on the onboard MIDI-port.
 
Yup, moskus is right Chuck :)

Depends on the driver you use, but so far I never found SB's MIDI out labeled as MPU-401 in any version of Cakewalk. Instead, it's labeled SB MIDI Out port or something similiar :) MPU-401 is the label for onboard joystick MIDI port if it's being activated in BIOS setting to be so (MPU-401 emulation or something...) :)

Not to confused about the ability, it's just the way it's labeled.

;)
Jaymz
 
Thanks for the confirmation, James! :)



Chuck, I know I have a mad memory, but you really twisted my brain... :D
 
... but I did use the magic 'OR' word after "What U Hear"
;)
...so I wasn't assuming it was an SB. Even onboard soundchips usually have the equivalent called "Stereo Mix" so you can re-record without going through the converters and a loopback cable.

I have no idea what rguagenti meant by playing back to the mpu401 as this won't make any noise. Mpu401 is just a midi interface, not a synth.
As far as I'm aware, that Microsoft softsynth uses a 4meg wavetable provided by Roland. It isn't that bad as GM (actually Rolands GS) soundsets go, but it has quite a high latency. It is supposed to be possible to change the soundset as it's DLS compatable, but the only tool I know of to do that is part of Microsofts DirectX SDK which is a huge download. I think it's called Direct Music Producer.

Microsoft are set against using the mpu401 standard for midi anymore and drivers for gameport midi interfaces seem to be an endangered species on mobo sound chips. I haven't seen one on any recent pc - the only midi device is that softsynth. Hardware wavetable midi synths have also disappeared, even though they may be present in the chip, they are not enabled.
Which makes it all the more odd that Cakewalk have yet to get around to building in some kind of sound generator for metronome duties as most computers simply don't have a usable midi synth anymore.
 
Jim Y said:
... but I did use the magic 'OR' word after "What U Hear"
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You can't record MIDI internally with your basic mobo soundcard. That's why you need to connect the output to the input of the soundcard. ;)
 
Confusion reigns.
The MS softsynth is a wave device - its output is audio. So you can record it either from the "stereo mix" option.
 
I know that. I only thought that it couldn't be recorded internally. It's in the "Output" part of the Windows Mixer. I just don't find it in the "Recording" part.
 
Well, I've just checked a few bog standard PC AC97 recording property tabs and the option for the stereo mix is definately there, though it might not be shown by default.
 
A lot of good info here but you guys are definitely going over my head with some of your conversation, but you are correct Jim Y, the MS Wavetable SYnth does have a high latency.

Let me start by saying that when I open up .wrk files that were created in MusicCreator 2003, the MIDI track outputs are all set to MPU401. I have to manually redirect them to Edirol or whatever, in order to get sound. I didn't have to do that with MC2003.(BTW I did not use any external plug ins with MC2003 so all MIDI was recorded from within MC) Likewise when I open any tutorial or sample files.

Back to latency w the MS Synth. When I redirect MIDI output from MPU401, or from Edirol for that matter, to MS Synth it causes a delay of about 4 frames. I need to nudge the track by -4 frames(left) in order for the MIDI track to keep up with the rest of the song. Is this an inherent thing with the MS Synth?

BTW I am using the onboard soundcard, an ESS Allegro. I am saving up to upgrade to a better soundcard and monitors. Does the soundcard have anything to do with the latency issue?
 
rguagenti said:
Back to latency w the MS Synth. When I redirect MIDI output from MPU401, or from Edirol for that matter, to MS Synth it causes a delay of about 4 frames. I need to nudge the track by -4 frames(left) in order for the MIDI track to keep up with the rest of the song. Is this an inherent thing with the MS Synth?
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Yup... I got even bigger than that when using Ms synth

rguagenti said:
Does the soundcard have anything to do with the latency issue?
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Off course !!! :) Specialy the driver architecture. It *can* be used for Multimedia activity (listening to Winamp, games, etc...) but not recomended for serious recording activity. There's so many factor causing latency, but the soundcard (and it's driver) is the most :)

;)
Jaymz
 
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