Yucky ringing noise from guitar strings

[thebigcheese]

I never really noticed this problem until I ran my guitar into a JCM8000, which really brought out the noise, but there's this weird high-pitched ringing noise that happens when I pick the strings on my The Paul. It's not a microphonic pickup because I can hear it from the guitar itself when it's not plugged in. It's most noticeable on the D and G strings, though it is there on some of the others less prominently. Let me see if I can describe it... It's most noticeable when using a pick or fingernail, it sounds kind of like shiiing (if that makes any sense) and then rings out until I mute the string. It's a metallic noise (though, interestingly, I get the noise a bit on the B string of a nylon guitar I have). At first, I thought that maybe the string just lightly hits one of the frets, but I don't think that's the case anymore. The only things I can think of are that it would be related to the bridge, nut, or tuning pegs. It's not the thing that holds the strings next to the bridge because I've tried pushing the strings down so they aren't touching that. Oh, and it really only happens with open strings (presumably because my fingers mute the overtone).

Is it a normal noise? It's really starting to bug me, but I'm not sure if it's something I can even get rid of.

 

[Zaphod B]

If it only happens on open strings then it stands to reason that the problem is at the nut. Perhaps it's not seated completely in its slot?

Hopefully Mutt will chime in with a more experienced opinion.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Actually, my guess would be that you're getting sympathetic vibrations from the strings on the headstock.

Try putting some foam under them just behind the nut, to deaden vibration. That should clear it up, unless I'm very greatly mistaken.

 

[Zaphod B]

Actually, my guess would be that you're getting sympathetic vibrations from the strings on the headstock.

Try putting some foam under them just behind the nut, to deaden vibration. That should clear it up, unless I'm very greatly mistaken.

If the nut is doing its job, it shouldn't be passing that much vibration to the strings between itself and the tuners. Seriously, of my various guitars not a single one has this problem.

 

[thebigcheese]

Well, it happens a bit with the first fret or two, actually. Tried the foam thing just now, but no dice. I also tried it with my hand and putting some actual pressure on the strings to make sure they wouldn't vibrate, but no difference.

I had considered getting a new nut, but it's a rather expensive fix to do in a shop and I'm not sure I trust myself to get it right. Here's a couple pictures of the nut. The bridge, by the way, is brand-spankin' new, but I first noticed the noise with the old bridge.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Hrm, looking at the chips in the nut around the G and B strings, you'd probably want to replace that, anyway.

 

[muttley600]

OK if it happens on stopped strings as well you can rule out the nut slots. It sounds as if you can rule out sympathetic vibration behind the nut as well if you have damped them with something. You need to look first at the saddles and then at all the other fittings.

Is everything locked down tight? Does it happen at specific frequencies or notes? Does it happen across strings on the same note. This sort of fiddly problem is down to a process of illumination especially doing it remotely like this.

 

[Zaphod B]

This sort of fiddly problem is down to a process of illumination especially doing t remotely like this.

So you recommend a nice, bright work light?

 

[muttley600]

So you recommend a nice, bright work light?

you can never eliminate the need for one.

 

[ggunn]

... I can hear it from the guitar itself when it's not plugged in. It's most noticeable on the D and G strings, though it is there on some of the others less prominently. Let me see if I can describe it... It's most noticeable when using a pick or fingernail, it sounds kind of like shiiing (if that makes any sense) and then rings out until I mute the string. It's a metallic noise (though, interestingly, I get the noise a bit on the B string of a nylon guitar I have). At first, I thought that maybe the string just lightly hits one of the frets, but I don't think that's the case anymore.

It still sounds like a fret buzz to me.

 

[thebigcheese]

It doesn't seem to have to do with the pitch, as hitting 5th fret on the A string doesn't produce the same sound as open D string.

As for fret buzz, it's possible, but the truss rod is all the way loose and the action is already raised slightly (vs flat).

 

[ocnor]

The truss rod is loose?

 

[thebigcheese]

The truss rod is loose?

I just mean I loosened the screw until the point where it was just coming off rather than actually doing anything, then tightened it back up until it was actually doing something again. So it's at the limit is what I meant. If I tightened the nut, the fret buzz just gets worse because it pulls the neck the other direction.

 

[muttley600]

It doesn't seem to have to do with the pitch, as hitting 5th fret on the A string doesn't produce the same sound as open D string.

As for fret buzz, it's possible, but the truss rod is all the way loose and the action is already raised slightly (vs flat).

Ok, so now you are tackling each possibility one at a time which is the right way to go. As it is not across strings you can pretty much rule out that it is a loose fitting or frequency dependant but not entirely. Most likely though it it something to do with the saddle or neck relief. Can you measure the neck relief between the second or third fret and the fifteenth?

 

[thebigcheese]

By relief, do you just mean how high the strings are from the fretboard? If so, then it looks like about 1 mm at the 2nd/3rd and maybe 2.5 mm at the 15th, though I can't say that those are very exact measurements (I only have a ruler).

 

[muttley600]

By relief, do you just mean how high the strings are from the fretboard? If so, then it looks like about 1 mm at the 2nd/3rd and maybe 2.5 mm at the 15th, though I can't say that those are very exact measurements (I only have a ruler).

Place a straight edge such that is measures the bow from the third to the fifteenth fret. Relief is the amount of bow required to stop the strings from choking or in your case very slightly ringing against the adjacent two frets. It varies depending on string gauge, type, action and playing style among other things. While you are at it make sure the truss rod is not loose and causing a buzz of some sort at certain frequencies.

 

[thebigcheese]

Oh, so you mean how much the neck bends? In that case, it bends very, very slightly upwards (toward the strings) such that, with the ruler against the frets, there is a very small gap between the frets and the ruler (probably less than 1 mm) in the middle section.

I'll tighten the rod a bit just in case, but if I tighten it too much more, then I really get fret buzz.

Edit: In fact, if I tighten it at all, I get fret buzz. But I can't really loosen it any more, either... I'm using 11s, by the way.

 

[ggunn]

Oh, so you mean how much the neck bends? In that case, it bends very, very slightly upwards (toward the strings) such that, with the ruler against the frets, there is a very small gap between the frets and the ruler (probably less than 1 mm) in the middle section.

I'll tighten the rod a bit just in case, but if I tighten it too much more, then I really get fret buzz.

Edit: In fact, if I tighten it at all, I get fret buzz. But I can't really loosen it any more, either... I'm using 11s, by the way.

Raise the action a bit at the bridge, then tighten the truss rod.

 

[slowmotion]

I never really noticed this problem until I ran my guitar into a JCM8000, which really brought out the noise, but there's this weird high-pitched ringing noise that happens when I pick the strings on my The Paul.

JCM8000

For my attempt at being helpful; it sounds like you know what fret buzz sounds like, and you have another strange sound you can't identify. You've ruled out sympathetic buzz at the headstock. You've ruled out the nut. Leave the truss rod as it is. It's only there to adjust neck relief and it sounds like you've got it pretty right. Set the bridge action to your taste. Nut seems fine. Keep your methodology simple, there's only 4 basic measurements: truss rod first, bridge height second, nut height third, intonation last.

If it's a metallic sound, and you believe it's not fret buzz, I'd look at the saddles, by playing and pressing down on them to see if the noise disappears. Maybe you don't have enough downward pressure on them - maybe your stop tailpiece isn't low enough (or is too low and binding the strings on the TOM).

I'd also look at OTHER stuff, like the pickup rings, the pickguard if you've got one fitted, check every screw. I chased a buzz around a friends guitar for ages, turned out it was a loose screw on the pickup ring .

 

[muttley600]

JCM8000

For my attempt at being helpful; it sounds like you know what fret buzz sounds like, and you have another strange sound you can't identify. You've ruled out sympathetic buzz at the headstock. You've ruled out the nut. Leave the truss rod as it is. It's only there to adjust neck relief and it sounds like you've got it pretty right. Set the bridge action to your taste. Nut seems fine. Keep your methodology simple, there's only 4 basic measurements: truss rod first, bridge height second, nut height third, intonation last.

If it's a metallic sound, and you believe it's not fret buzz, I'd look at the saddles, by playing and pressing down on them to see if the noise disappears. Maybe you don't have enough downward pressure on them - maybe your stop tailpiece isn't low enough (or is too low and binding the strings on the TOM).

I'd also look at OTHER stuff, like the pickup rings, the pickguard if you've got one fitted, check every screw. I chased a buzz around a friends guitar for ages, turned out it was a loose screw on the pickup ring .

Slow down slowmotion, one thing at a time....