Yet another studio/acoustic advice thread...

[peritus]

Disclaimer:

I will be documenting and discussing my studio development in this thread... If you would like to help, please do. Otherwise, please don't flame me as if I'm begging for help.

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Here's a diagram of the room I'm working in (both mixing and recording )... Don't tell me the picture is too small! Click on it!!!

Width: 11 ft
Lenth: 15 ft (without closet)
Height 8 ft

Wall Thickness: 4 inches

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The walls on the top and left are exterior walls of my brick house. I think this will have an effect on low frequency reflections.

The green section of wall at the top is a 5 ft high window that is roughly centered vertically. The green section on the bottom right is a typical cheap door. I hope to replace with a solid wood door as finances permit.

Currently, there are no doors on the closet.

The flooring is typical bedroom carpet and the ceiling is in the typical midwestern spackle-textured style.

The orange boxes on the perimeter are power outlets. Listing from top to bottom, the three middle boxes are platform for viewing screen(s), desk, old computer desk (for misc equipment and diffusion). The rest should be pretty obvious.

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Now that the basics are out of the way, I can start building a plan for my acoustic treatment (I think).

See any glaring issues?

Anyone have an idea of how I can preserve my symmetry and add an area for recording (versus mixing)? I have a few thoughts, but what do you think? I'm thinking that using the closet somehow would work... Still not sure about symmetry issues.

So far I've been reading all the typical acoustic texts and I haven't gotten to the point of utilizing them. Any suggestions are highly appreciated.

Thanks!!!!!!
Joshua

P.S. My biggest problem right now is ping pong echo... I know.. I need treatment...Hence this thread...

Edit 1: I now know of a nearby place (SPI) to buy 703....
Edit 2: My computer is in the next room. So its noise is not an issue for any chosen recording area...
Edit 3: Oh yeah... Budget-wise... Try to think like a 21 year old....

 

[mshilarious]

You didn't ask about soundproofing, so I will assume it is not important.

First priority would be hanging absorbers on the side walls at your mix position. Overhead too.

Second priority is bass traps in the corners, and ceiling/wall corners.

Third priority, tear up the carpet and replace with hardwood.

Fourth priority, hang a drop ceiling 6" down from your ceiling, just in the middle of the room, and fill with insulation above. Add some groovy lighting while you're screwing around up there

To get more use out of the space, build some slanty walls, fairly shallow angle, around the window, just enough to flush-mount your monitors. Underneath them, put some of your rackmount gear and your computer in mini-closets, if you can get it off your desk. The goal is make the desk flexible enough to be reversible--you can engineer tracking facing into the room, and switch back to face the window for mixdown. That gives you enough space in the room for another musician.

The closet . . . meh, not a ton of space there. I would probably use it for storage, including maybe some (lots) of household linens, and put a moveable barrier in front of it, maybe one that could double as a gobo as needed. Pretty cheap way to add some absorption.

 

[peritus]

Thanks for your reply! You're quick!

Okay.. I failed to mention a few things...(Sorry bout that)...

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I am renting (yes I pay) from my parents. With this comes a few good, but also bad, things.

Good

Sound isolation isn't really a problem. I can always work when their not at home (3rd shift rocks).

I can hang things on the walls and ceiling (and maybe glue but I haven't heard anything about removal later)...

I could probably get away with the hardwood flooring thing. I'm just not sure I can afford it right now. Anyone know of a cheap and portable hardwood floor.. Haha.. I'm sure that's impossible..

I asked about track lighting and they said yes. I haven't researched the price of doing it yet. Any ideas people?

Etc.

Bad

I might be able to do temporary walling. However, they'd probably kill me for building those corner walls the way I'd want to.

I don't fully understand the drop-ceiling tactic yet... But I'm thinking it wouldn't really be temporary... If I can find a good way to do it, they migh let me (Lol... Believe it or not this is better than an apartment. That's exactly why I'm here with the parents.)

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I have a question about the monitors being in the wall. Would I want to do this even though I'm using ported Roland near-field monitors?

The rest sounds great. Thanks again!

 

[peritus]

Couple other things...

The goal is make the desk flexible enough to be reversible--you can engineer tracking facing into the room, and switch back to face the window for mixdown. That gives you enough space in the room for another musician.

Wow.. great idea! Hmm.. I wonder if I could build some sort of spinning platform for this...

The closet . . . meh, not a ton of space there. I would probably use it for storage, including maybe some (lots) of household linens, and put a moveable barrier in front of it, maybe one that could double as a gobo as needed. Pretty cheap way to add some absorption.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what's a gobo...

Thanks!

 

[mshilarious]

I could probably get away with the hardwood flooring thing. I'm just not sure I can afford it right now. Anyone know of a cheap and portable hardwood floor.. Haha.. I'm sure that's impossible..

Laminate flooring is relatively cheap and doesn't have to be permanent.

I asked about track lighting and they said yes. I haven't researched the price of doing it yet. Any ideas people?

It's pretty cheap, just check at the local Lowes.

I might be able to do temporary walling. However, they'd probably kill me for building those corner walls the way I'd want to.

That's fine, that was very optional.

I don't fully understand the drop-ceiling tactic yet... But I'm thinking it wouldn't really be temporary... If I can find a good way to do it, they migh let me (Lol... Believe it or not this is better than an apartment. That's exactly why I'm here with the parents.)

There are other ways to deal with the ceiling. Just hang a few more absorbers up there. The drop ceiling is simply a cheap, easy, and nice looking way to finish a ceiling, vs. fabric-covered rigid fiberglass panels, which are a little more expensive. Plus it's easier to build in electric in a drop ceiling.

I have a question about the monitors being in the wall. Would I want to do this even though I'm using ported Roland near-field monitors?

As long as the ports fire forward, yes. If they don't, then it might be too complicated for me to answer. But again that is not the most critical part, it's just if you want to get the monitors off your desk.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what's a gobo...

It's a four letter word that means "portable free-standing panel absorber". Useful for getting some acoustic separation between musicians in the same room.


Also: DON'T FORGET to tell your parents you really want to store all their linens in your closet. Free brownie points!

 

[peritus]

Laminate flooring is relatively cheap and doesn't have to be permanent.

It's pretty cheap, just check at the local Lowes.

The drop ceiling is simply a cheap, easy, and nice looking way to finish a ceiling

Gonna look for tutorials on these.

How high above my head should the dropped ceiling/absorbtion be?

As long as the ports fire forward, yes. If they don't, then it might be too complicated for me to answer. But again that is not the most critical part, it's just if you want to get the monitors off your desk.

Gotcha... As far as getting the monitors of the desk, I've read about concrete blocks for stands... Any thoughts on those? I guess that would make it difficult to "room flip", as we discussed earlier.

It's a four letter word that means "portable free-standing panel absorber". Useful for getting some acoustic separation between musicians in the same room.

Cool... Maybe I could build that using 2x4's, some wheels, and 703. Structurally similar to a clothes rack, maybe.

Also: DON'T FORGET to tell your parents you really want to store all their linens in your closet. Free brownie points!

Wurd ! I know I'm obsessive, but would the shelving cause any kind of comb filtering if I made it from MDF?

Thanks again bro!

 

[peritus]

Cool... Maybe I could build that using 2x4's, some wheels, and 703. Structurally similar to a clothes rack, maybe.

Like this one...Or maybe I could just modify this type of clothes rack for my purpose!

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Also, I've been thinking about covering the window... My only constraint is that the window must appear to be normal from the outside (blinds, etc.)... There are wood blinds up right now..

Should I?

Should I use MDF and just screw it over the window?... I read somewhere that you must have damping material behind the panelled window to fight resonance...

Can I just cover it , as-is, with 703 and no wood?

 

[JeffLancaster]

Also, I've been thinking about covering the window... My only constraint is that the window must appear to be normal from the outside (blinds, etc.)... There are wood blinds up right now..

I covered the window in my studio in 3/4" MDF. Behind it is one of those hanging plastic window louver thingys. So from the outside it just looks like the louvers are closed. On the inside, the MDF as well as the surrounding wall section is all covered in acoustic foam. Walking into my studio, you'd never even realize there's a window there, and I can hear absolutely ZERO outside noise through that window.

 

[peritus]

I covered the window in my studio in 3/4" MDF. Behind it is one of those hanging plastic window louver thingys. So from the outside it just looks like the louvers are closed. On the inside, the MDF as well as the surrounding wall section is all covered in acoustic foam. Walking into my studio, you'd never even realize there's a window there, and I can hear absolutely ZERO outside noise through that window.

Sweet... I'm thinking that when/if I do this, I'll put up the MDF in the center of the wall while still covering the window. That way add some symmetry (Please note that the window isn't centered).

Do you use something similar to a 4" wedge foam for this?

I'm thinking that would be what I would use. But I bet 703 would work just as well.

Thanks!

 

[JeffLancaster]

Do you use something similar to a 4" wedge foam for this?

Mine is 2" wedge foam, but it looks just like that.

 

[peritus]

Mine is 2" wedge foam, but it looks just like that.

Cool.. Thanks!

 

[peritus]

Sweet... I'm thinking that when/if I do this, I'll put up the MDF in the center of the wall while still covering the window. That way add some symmetry (Please note that the window isn't centered).

Like so....

Red is 1/2" MDF
Dark Purple is 4" Foam/703

 

[JeffLancaster]

I could probably get away with the hardwood flooring thing. I'm just not sure I can afford it right now. Anyone know of a cheap and portable hardwood floor.. Haha.. I'm sure that's impossible..

Cheapest thing to do is get a sheet of 1/4" plywood and set it on the floor when you're recording acoustic guitar or something. You could cut it in half or thirds and store it in the closet when you're not using it. Now if you want a more semi-permanent hard floor, how about laying two layers of 1/4" plywood (glued together with the joints overlapping) directly on top of the carpet. Leave about a 1/4" gap or so around the edges next to the walls. Then glue down some cheap linoleum over the whole thing. Just an idea - I've never tried anything like that" but it seems like it would give you a bit of isolation from the floor and provide a cheap hard floor that is easy to tear out when you no longer are using the room.

I asked about track lighting and they said yes. I haven't researched the price of doing it yet. Any ideas people?

Cheapest place I found to get track lighting supplies was here. I bought all my lighting supplies from them. I ran a two circuit track around the perimeter of the room. On one circuit I have all natural lights and on the other I have alternating red and blue lights. I use the natural lights most of the time, but switch to the colored light circuit for a cool mood sometimes while I'm jamming on my guitar in there The lights I use are the smaller halogens with the built in 12 volt transformers. I like them because they're smaller and don't hang down so far from my already low ceiling. They do get hot though, so a word of warning - always let them cool before trying to change a bulb I think the whole lighting setup cost me about 500 bucks, however this was about 4 or 5 years ago.

 

[mshilarious]

Gonna look for tutorials on these.

How high above my head should the dropped ceiling/absorbtion be?

It gets tricky here. Normally you want as much height as is reasonably possible, especially with drums. So if the drop ceiling brings you down to 7'6", that's not ideal for drums. However, if the ceiling is highly absorptive (and ceiling tile is by no means created equal), it's not as big of a problem. Also if you track stuff like guitars, acoustic instrument, stuff that doesn't need much height . . . sort of a compromise, really. Hanging rigid fiberglass is probably the best option.

Gotcha... As far as getting the monitors of the desk, I've read about concrete blocks for stands... Any thoughts on those? I guess that would make it difficult to "room flip", as we discussed earlier

Somewhere here there are some threads about DIY PVC stands, I think I would favor trying those.

Cool... Maybe I could build that using 2x4's, some wheels, and 703. Structurally similar to a clothes rack, maybe.

Good, but 2x4s are much heavier than necessary. Pine boards work fine.

Wurd ! I know I'm obsessive, but would the shelving cause any kind of comb filtering if I made it from MDF?

Thanks again bro!

Maybe if you were a few inches away from the shelves. Also remember that there is supposed to be stuff on the shelves. I would tend to think of them more as an diffuser or absorber, depending on what crap is on 'em. Empty shelves could be bad.

 

[peritus]

Cheapest thing to do is get a sheet of 1/4" plywood and set it on the floor when you're recording acoustic guitar or something. You could cut it in half or thirds and store it in the closet when you're not using it. Now if you want a more semi-permanent hard floor, how about laying two layers of 1/4" plywood (glued together with the joints overlapping) directly on top of the carpet. Leave about a 1/4" gap or so around the edges next to the walls. Then glue down some cheap linoleum over the whole thing. Just an idea - I've never tried anything like that" but it seems like it would give you a bit of isolation from the floor and provide a cheap hard floor that is easy to tear out when you no longer are using the room..

My house is conrete slab so hopefully it wouldn't flex if I tried to build a simple modular plywood floor for the lower half of the room (by the door, in the diagram)... I'm kinda worried about under-door swinging clearing (but that can always be trimmed).

However... I think I could acheive what I need with a doubled up 4' x 4' sheet of plywood directly behind the current mixing position. The player or vocalist could be centered on it. Then, I guess I could have gobos (thanks mshilarious ) on all four sides (or less depending on the sound I want)...

Here's my updated to-scale diagram...I added a new guideline that splits the room in half the other direction...I also lost the back desk... Gonna have to find a better place for that I think... Might just get rid of it all together..



This also brings me back to the topic of drop ceilings... I guess I could have separate drop sections for each end of the room (recording end vs. mixing/tracking end). That way I could tune the recording end to requirement.

Cheapest place I found to get track lighting supplies was here. I bought all my lighting supplies from them. I ran a two circuit track around the perimeter of the room. On one circuit I have all natural lights and on the other I have alternating red and blue lights. I use the natural lights most of the time, but switch to the colored light circuit for a cool mood sometimes while I'm jamming on my guitar in there The lights I use are the smaller halogens with the built in 12 volt transformers. I like them because they're smaller and don't hang down so far from my already low ceiling. They do get hot though, so a word of warning - always let them cool before trying to change a bulb I think the whole lighting setup cost me about 500 bucks, however this was about 4 or 5 years ago.

Sounds great... Might have to wait on that for awhile... I've been thinking about buying something like this to hang over mix position (from behind the desk)....

Thanks for the input....

 

[peritus]

It gets tricky here. Normally you want as much height as is reasonably possible, especially with drums. So if the drop ceiling brings you down to 7'6", that's not ideal for drums. However, if the ceiling is highly absorptive (and ceiling tile is by no means created equal), it's not as big of a problem. Also if you track stuff like guitars, acoustic instrument, stuff that doesn't need much height . . . sort of a compromise, really. Hanging rigid fiberglass is probably the best option.

Sounds good... As stated above, I'll probably have two sections of this... Do you think I could create a square grid of pvc pipe and top it with fabric covered 703? Seems like a light, durable, and cheap way to drop the ceiling...

Somewhere here there are some threads about DIY PVC stands, I think I would favor trying those.

I remember seeing that... I'll keep this in mind when the time comes..

Good, but 2x4s are much heavier than necessary. Pine boards work fine.

Gotcha... 1x2's, maybe?

Maybe if you were a few inches away from the shelves. Also remember that there is supposed to be stuff on the shelves. I would tend to think of them more as an diffuser or absorber, depending on what crap is on 'em. Empty shelves could be bad.

Cool... Thanks for helping me clear that up....

 

[peritus]

Does anyone else, besides me, think that my sitting location may be bad acoustically (almost in the exact center of all three axis)?.. I'm thinking about moving the desk much futher up the diagram... Any thoughts on how far I should stay from the windowed, yet soon to be covered, wall?

Here's the graphic again for reference...



Thanks people!

 

[mshilarious]

Sounds good... As stated above, I'll probably have two sections of this... Do you think I could create a square grid of pvc pipe and top it with fabric covered 703? Seems like a light, durable, and cheap way to drop the ceiling...

The track for hanging ceiling tile works just as well for holding rigid fiberglass too, and is easy to install, and fairly easily removable.

 

[peritus]

The track for hanging ceiling tile works just as well for holding rigid fiberglass too, and is easy to install, and fairly easily removable.

Sounds great... I found a couple links on this....I'm guessing there are some sort of suspension pieces as well...I'll probably write up a price list with dimensions tomorrow or sometime...

12' Track $4.80
2' Track Tee $0.93

Thanks as always!

 

[JeffLancaster]

Does anyone else, besides me, think that my sitting location may be bad acoustically (almost in the exact center of all three axis)?.. I'm thinking about moving the desk much futher up the diagram... Any thoughts on how far I should stay from the windowed, yet soon to be covered, wall?

Actually yes, I have read that it's not the best idea to have your mix position in the exact center of the room. However, I do believe it's a good idea to have yourself, as well as your monitors, positioned evenly between the sides of the room. I have also read that when using nearfields you don't want them positioned TOO close to either the back or side walls as that will tend to exagerate bass frequencies. The manual for my monitors recommends at least a foot from any walls.

Your room seems to be quite similar in size and shape to mine, (mine is about 14 1/2 feet long by 8 1/2 feet wide) so I'll tell you what's working pretty good for me. I have the back of my desk positioned about 18" from the front wall. Since the legs of my desk are also equipment racks, this gives me just enough space to get behind there and run cables, etc. The furthest back points of my monitors end up being about 20" inches from the front wall and they get no closer than 14" from either side. When sitting in the ideal mix position where my head and monitors form an equilateral triangle, my ears are approximately 5'10" from the front wall (approximately 40% back into the room). I have 2" acoustic foam on the front and side walls as well as the on the ceiling for the front 6' of the room. This seems to really control early reflections that could bounce off the sides or the ceiling of the room. The backwall of my studio I left bare, and I have foam bass traps in all four corners. This arrangement really works great, although one area I think I could improve upon would be adding more substantial bass traps in the back corners of my room (behind my mix position), probably something along the lines of the Ethan Winer bass trap design.

Hope that helps...Jeff