G
Greg_L
Banned
No can do. I like it where it is. I need it low and right above the floor tom. I guess I just wont mess with the Glyn John method.Supercreep said:
Supercreep
Lizard People
Greg_L said:
Yeah, that's where I like it too. It's a good thing you're both the drummer and the engineer here - Balancing "no can do" and "I want a good drum sound" can be a bitch.
I like to set up my drums ruler flat and very low. But in the studio I've had to change my setup a lot to get mics where I need them and to balance the cymbals and drums
When I'm listening to the track later I don't think about how gay I look or how uncomfortable I was though, so I guess it's worth the discomfort and hassle.
YMMV
Supercreep
Lizard People
Greg_L said:
Rami gets a good sound primarily because he tunes his drums and strikes them hard with great consistency.
Rami's mics are not incredible, nor is his room amazing.
He's just a good player. They are always much easier to record.
Anyway, try adjusting the GJ placement before you write it off as a good technique for you. Move the mic to where you think it ought to be and try it. It may be exactly what you are looking for.
G
Greg_L
Banned
Well, so far I've tried the spaced-pair method and I'm getting way too much cymbal. I've tried the XY and I get the same thing. So far the 'recorderman' method has given the best results, but I'm not getting as much hi-hat as I'd like. I play reasonably fast stuff with a lot of 8th notes on the hat. The 'tss-tss-tss-tss' hat sound just isn't cutting through like I'd like it to once the buzzsawing guitars are laid on top of it. Maybe I should mic the hat as well.
Supercreep
Lizard People
Adjust a mic so that it is looking at the HH.
Perhaps some dynamics processing on your OH may be what you're looking for.
Keep fiddling around with placement until it sounds right. How it sounds should be directing your next move - so you're on the right track.
Perhaps some dynamics processing on your OH may be what you're looking for.
Keep fiddling around with placement until it sounds right. How it sounds should be directing your next move - so you're on the right track.
G
Greg_L
Banned
Thanks. This is a lot harder than I thought it would be. My kids are like 'please no more drumming'.Supercreep said:
Y
Yareek
New member
Some tips (I assume you have a mixing board of some kind to run all the mics to):
Get a pair of isolation headphones! Vic Firth are the ones I use...they don't sound very good but they kill most of the noise so you can hear what's going on a little better.
Start with the sound in the room...make sure the drums are tuned, not ringing, not making any squeaks or buzzing noises, etc. Fresh heads and sharp bearing edges are necessary for a great drum sound (fresh heads meaning heads that aren't pitted or worn beyond all hope...old heads can sound good but that's another story).
First priority is the overheads...they should constitute the majority of the drum "sound" for most genres (exception being modern rock and metal and weird stuff). Play around with positioning until you find something you like. Here's some starting points:
- X-Y directly over snare pointed down, X-Y behind kit, X-Y in front of kit
- Spaced pair, one over hihat one over ride, one over highest tom one over lowest tom, lots of places move em around
- ORTF (do a search) over kit, behind kit, in front of kit
- Recorderman (probably easiest) and Glyn Johns with one over the snare and one over the shoulder or peeking over the low floor tom pointed at the snare
Once you've played around with the overheads, I'd focus on the kick. Again lots of options: just inside the hole in the front head, pointed at the beater, in front of the drum, pulled back a bit, on the pedal side pointed at the beater...
And snare try miking the top moving the angle of the mic up and down and even the shell. Pull the mic back several inches and see how it sounds.
The toms probably just clip on but play around with those as well. For a lot of styles of music you can get away without tom mics, for more modern tones they help add some beef. Depends on if/how you mix and how much flexibility you want or need. I'd try and get your tom tones from the overheads as much as possible to make mixing easier if/when you record, then just gate the toms and boost some of the lows on those tracks to add some beef underneath the overhead tracks.
Anyways, lots of stuff to play around with, so have fun!
Get a pair of isolation headphones! Vic Firth are the ones I use...they don't sound very good but they kill most of the noise so you can hear what's going on a little better.
Start with the sound in the room...make sure the drums are tuned, not ringing, not making any squeaks or buzzing noises, etc. Fresh heads and sharp bearing edges are necessary for a great drum sound (fresh heads meaning heads that aren't pitted or worn beyond all hope...old heads can sound good but that's another story).
First priority is the overheads...they should constitute the majority of the drum "sound" for most genres (exception being modern rock and metal and weird stuff). Play around with positioning until you find something you like. Here's some starting points:
- X-Y directly over snare pointed down, X-Y behind kit, X-Y in front of kit
- Spaced pair, one over hihat one over ride, one over highest tom one over lowest tom, lots of places move em around
- ORTF (do a search) over kit, behind kit, in front of kit
- Recorderman (probably easiest) and Glyn Johns with one over the snare and one over the shoulder or peeking over the low floor tom pointed at the snare
Once you've played around with the overheads, I'd focus on the kick. Again lots of options: just inside the hole in the front head, pointed at the beater, in front of the drum, pulled back a bit, on the pedal side pointed at the beater...
And snare try miking the top moving the angle of the mic up and down and even the shell. Pull the mic back several inches and see how it sounds.
The toms probably just clip on but play around with those as well. For a lot of styles of music you can get away without tom mics, for more modern tones they help add some beef. Depends on if/how you mix and how much flexibility you want or need. I'd try and get your tom tones from the overheads as much as possible to make mixing easier if/when you record, then just gate the toms and boost some of the lows on those tracks to add some beef underneath the overhead tracks.
Anyways, lots of stuff to play around with, so have fun!
G
Greg_L
Banned
Thanks for the info Yareek.
All of my mics are going into a Firepod then into cubase. I mix 'in-the-box'.
I have isolation headphones. I'd be deaf without them.
My drums are always tuned up and they stay in tune pretty well. New snare head. New kick and reso head. About 6 month old pinstripes on the toms.
I play mostly punk and up-tempo hard rock type stuff.
I've been playing with all sorts of overhead variations. I keep coming back to the recorderman method in conjunction with close-micing. So far, thats been my best sound. But, I've had enough for today. I'll be back at it tomorrow.
All of my mics are going into a Firepod then into cubase. I mix 'in-the-box'.
I have isolation headphones. I'd be deaf without them.
My drums are always tuned up and they stay in tune pretty well. New snare head. New kick and reso head. About 6 month old pinstripes on the toms.
I play mostly punk and up-tempo hard rock type stuff.
I've been playing with all sorts of overhead variations. I keep coming back to the recorderman method in conjunction with close-micing. So far, thats been my best sound. But, I've had enough for today. I'll be back at it tomorrow.
T
travelin travis
New member
Greg_L said:'please no more drumming'.
Y
Yareek
New member
Greg_L said:Thanks for the info Yareek.
All of my mics are going into a Firepod then into cubase. I mix 'in-the-box'.
I have isolation headphones. I'd be deaf without them.
My drums are always tuned up and they stay in tune pretty well. New snare head. New kick and reso head. About 6 month old pinstripes on the toms.
I play mostly punk and up-tempo hard rock type stuff.
I've been playing with all sorts of overhead variations. I keep coming back to the recorderman method in conjunction with close-micing. So far, thats been my best sound. But, I've had enough for today. I'll be back at it tomorrow.
Awesome. I go into a Firebox and haven't picked a DAW yet...just switched to Mac. Seriously thinking about going going back to XP with Sonar as nothing really jumps out at me as being great for Mac DAW's yet...
Recorderman plus close mics should be great...maybe for the heavier stuff raise the mics a bit to get more cymbals and bring up the toms a bit more...if you haven't already I'd do a Google search for Slipperman distorted guitars thread and listen to his part about mixing drums, especially toms and kick. That helped me quite a bit. When I started boosting the lows on the toms and sucking out the rumble and the mids the toms mixed much easier. Pinstripes should record pretty easily too.
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Greg_L
Banned
Slipperman. Got it. Thanks for the tip. I'd hit you with some green rep, but I've already maxed it out for today.
G
Greg_L
Banned
Update:
After many days of positioning, moving, tweaking, cursing, and recording using the various O/H and close-mic methods, I've finally settled on and am pretty pleased with the Recorderman technique with close-mic supplementation. I tried ORTF, X/Y, Spaced-Pair, and all sorts of my own stupid designs, and in my room, with my mics on my drums, the basic Recorderman method seems to work best. So, thanks to everyone that helped and gave suggestions. I do appreciate it.
After many days of positioning, moving, tweaking, cursing, and recording using the various O/H and close-mic methods, I've finally settled on and am pretty pleased with the Recorderman technique with close-mic supplementation. I tried ORTF, X/Y, Spaced-Pair, and all sorts of my own stupid designs, and in my room, with my mics on my drums, the basic Recorderman method seems to work best. So, thanks to everyone that helped and gave suggestions. I do appreciate it.
F
funkydrummer
New member
one
That's the method i use when playing loud/rock drums. the overheads are spaced at 4 feet with the floor tom side mic 3 feet off the ground. the kick mic is 6 inches from the middle of the head and the snare mic is 6 inches above the rim aimed at the middle of the drum. here are a couple clips:
one
two
and a couple pictures:
one
two
Greg_L said:
That's the method i use when playing loud/rock drums. the overheads are spaced at 4 feet with the floor tom side mic 3 feet off the ground. the kick mic is 6 inches from the middle of the head and the snare mic is 6 inches above the rim aimed at the middle of the drum. here are a couple clips:
one
two
and a couple pictures:
one
two
Supercreep
Lizard People
funkydrummer said:
Nice kit..