Xtra Bedroom production/mix room conversion

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groovedaddy24

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Hey guys. Been reading on this forum for about a month now and there is an overwhelming amount of great information. So im gonna see if i can get ideas specific to my situation.

Please see attatched for a rough sketch of the room. Any ideas and help would be great. This room is intended to be used for a mix environment but also will double as a production room, so one part to outfit about the size of Tascam US2400 fader pack and another part of room to locate keyboard and monitors for cpu.

What would be the best mix position and construction for walls without squeezing the room size down too much. Also what would be best for doors, to eliminate or significantly reduce noise from beyond into vocal booth (to-be). The room leads to a hall way with 2 other bedrooms.

Thanks in advance yall!
 

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Do you have a budget? How big is the room (dimensions)? How much "building" or "technical" experience do you have? (i.e. can you build stuff)... do you have the tools?
 
wells said:
Do you have a budget? How big is the room (dimensions)? How much "building" or "technical" experience do you have? (i.e. can you build stuff)... do you have the tools?
As shown in the rough sketch the room is approx 12 x 12 x 8. My budget is small (a little less than 1K), my skills are by no means professional, but am pretty compitent with building and wiring. Yes I have the tools (for the most part).
 
cube rooms are no fun to mix in. you'll want a good set of nearfields, likely (at least) a bass trap in the corner.

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

really do a lot of reading.

depending on how live you want the room to be, you may want to check out some of his realtraps or some rigid fiberglass.
 
Yeah, like Eagertone said, read up on Ethan's article. Building your own rigid fiberglass absorbers would be a good/cheap way to treat your room. In a mixing room, you want symmetry.
Quick tips... you absolutely have to put a heavy curtain over that big window. Glass reflects sound waves nastily (is that a word?) so cover as much of that window as possible with as sound-absorbing a material as possible. Also, have you considered having your vocal booth in the closet? This would save building one and extra treatment on the door. All you would need is a fan, light, and good treatment on the walls and door leading into the closet.
 
Thanks for the info. Reading the stuff by Ethan Winter gave me some answers to some questions, Awsome stuff! Let me also say, hopefully without sounding un-apreciative, im no newbie, I do have some great gear and have a little bit more ambitious hopes for the room although on a small budget. I've been through the whole auralex room treatment and now I am wanting to create something more solid looking and sounding, so a heavy curtain over the window isnt really what i had in mind. Sorry I shoulda been a bit more thourough with my first post. So if any ideas on how i can build without loosing too much space would be great. Also, the walkin will not do as it is only roughly 2' deep, which is why it is not in the sketch. I am thinking of that more to somehow house the cpu to eliminate any noise in the room from the fan and drive fans. So keep the ideas coming, i really do appreciate them.
 
What would be the best mix position
Seeing how the room is square and small at that, it wouldn't make much difference which wall you placed it on. The governing factor here is ergonomics of the door to the "proposed" vocal booth in relationship to the mixing position. In that case, I would place it at the far left(in picture) wall, which is the farthest from the booth.

and construction for walls without squeezing the room size down too much.

What are you trying to accomplish? Without knowing exactly what the environmental noise floor is, how loud you monitor, who and what you are trying to isolate from, and what your db profile of the music you are recording among other things, how would anyone tell you how and what to build? EVEN if they knew, here is the bottom line. Isolation ASSEMBLIES are measured in TRANSMISSION LOSS at various FREQUENCIES. The most serious being LOW frequencies. To isolate low frequencies requires SERIOUS MASS and decoupling of assemblies. This translates into SERIOUS construction techniques and budget, loss of floor space, not to mention PERMITS and loss of insurance risks and possible fines without them.

Since you mention "construction of walls, SERIOUS isolation would be the only purpose, and if so, prepare yourself for a few reality checks. For one, your room is really small, so even minimal airgap with double wall/ceiling construction will reduce it to 10'6" x 10'6" x 7'6" plus or minus. This is ASSUMING various things exist. Like a concrete slab floor, no neighbors within the same building, you are NOT recording drums, nor bass amps, nor Marshall amps at full volume, AND you own this space. These are but a few. Try HVAC, and various other things, like ducting, electrical, seals etc. This also assumes you are NOT trying to isolate 110 db drums from an adjacent neighbor at 2 in the morning. IF that is the goal........good luck. I would suggest reading THIS:
http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=107&start=0
or this:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2921&start=0


So, let us know exactly what you are talking about and THEN tell us what exists, your goals, type of music, noise floor, and EVERYTHING you can. However, unless you are prepared to match your goals with a budget, this would be a waste of bandwidth.

[QUOTE Also what would be best for doors, to eliminate or significantly reduce noise from beyond into vocal booth (to-be). The room leads to a hall way with 2 other[/QUOTE]
Since you mention closing off this "vestuble" as a sound lock/vocal booth, the best you could do without massive construction, is put in solid core doors with seals and thresholds. However, with typical residential SINGLE WALL TWO LEAF construction, I wouldn't expect high transmission loss isolation as the weak link syndrome throughout the existing assemblies will prevail here. ie...structural transmission.
fitZ
 
fitZ,
thanx for the response. the reality check will always be a factor to most of us, which is why we are on this forum... However, instead of focusing on what would not be feasable, maybe some ideas on finding a solution to this would be a little more proactive. I don't have a choice like some do on my space, so I must find a way to work with what I've got and bring out its best potential. Let me start by taking your advice and explaining a little more on my plans with this room.

I mostly do music that can be done electronically. If the need arises to track drums, bass cabs, etc. I have plenty of room within the rest of my home to do so, so not a biggie. Monitoring is usually done in the 90db range with occassional bumps. I own a home, so no neighbors attatched. I do have the common outside noise pollution to deal with (ie, kids, very light traffic, and a distant, but audible, train.) Mixing and tracking vocals is my primary objective, but I've gotta pay some bills aswell, so outside clients will stroll through.

My thoughts: adding more layers to the existing sheetrock. Will this help or not? Using studs to create an airgap better? I have read that ceiling structure is dependant on how much the ceiling is structured to support to begin with and may already be maxed out. So I wasnt looking at adding to that. I do have that big window to contend with, so I was thinking of covering that with a layer or two as opposed to just hanging a curtain over it.

I already know i don't have the most ideal of rooms, but I need some experience and solutions to create a very workable environment. I turned to these forums for unique and different ideas, ideas i have not thought of. The ability to get good mixes and "TRY" to significantly reduce any outside noise (not that its that bad to begin with, but these kids do have their moments--boy i remember those days)... So if this is asking the impossible here, without having this huge budget and insurance risks, then I do appreciate your time and consideration...... peace
 
Hello groovedaddy.

My thoughts: adding more layers to the existing sheetrock. Will this help or not?
It works like this. PERFECT scenario...doubling existing mass(adding 1 layer) results in 6db more transmission loss. However, it is NOT a perfect world. And, as usual with isolation, it is ONLY as good as the weakest link. In otherwords, unless ALL assemblies, which means doors, seals ceiling and floor MATCH, which ever is the least effective will be the weak link.

Considering the dimensions of the room, here is what I suggest, although it is much more work, but you get what you put in to it. To get the MOST bang for the buck WITHOUT building double walls, is to DECOUPLE a NEW INTERIOR LEAF as well as beefing up all the outer leafs from WITHIN THIS ROOM . This can only be accomplished by REMOVING the existing drywall from the walls and ceiling in this space. Resiliant Channel is the decoupling device but can NOT be attatched over existing drywall. This existing layer MUST BE REMOVED. Once the RC is installed, TWO layers of 5/8" drywall is installed on the RC. However, there are TONS things to do prior to the RC, and TONS of details to this solution, and should ONLY be undertaken after serious study of EACH DETAIL. If this sounds like something you would be interested in doing, just give me a holla and I'll layout the details for you so you can see WHAT and HOW each detail is done. This is no simple undertaking either. Paying attention to construction details are the key to a successful isolation project.

The next problem is your sound lock. The main problem using this as a booth , is it leaves NO exit or entrance to the control room while recording is in progress. We'll have to think about that one.

The next is VENTILATION or HVAC. What do you have? Please tell me EVERYTHING about this. It has a very important bearing on sound FLANKING through the ducts from other rooms if you have common ducting. So tell me all the details. In fact, if I were you, I'd climb up in the attic and LOOK at the ducting(IF EXISTS) to determine where and how to change this if possible, or if need be.

The next would be TREATMENT. Since your room is almost square as well as small, you need SERIOUS BASS ABSORPTION. More about that later.

Ok, for now, thats all I will say, although IF you are interested in this solution, you need to give me an ACCURATE drawing of the plan. I mean within 1/4" tolerance, especially to the INSIDE face of door jambs, windows, HVAC grills on the ceiling or whatever else exists in the room. Well, I'm out of time. Here is a plan view of what the RC and OUTER LEAF buildup looks like.
Oh, btw, tell me which walls are exterior, and which are adjacent to other rooms, and what is on the other side of the wall, like closets, bathrooms etc.

BTW, before this gets deeper, here is my disclaimer. I'm no expert. But there are people here who ARE, and who usually point out any incorrect information I may inadvertantly pass on. But since you asked, I'm trying to help you.
Later.


fitZ
ps. here is a TYPICAL plan section at a wall showing what I am talking about.
There is MUCH MORE to this though. Later.
 

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