workstation vs pc

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DaveM

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OK, so I was at guitar center over the weekend and was thinking of picking up the yamaha awg16. Did some research on it and it seems like something good for me. I'm solo and want to record some of my own material. I have guitar, bass, and keyboards. Drums will come later. The problem was that the price was $1100 and I was not going to pay that much for this unit. Seems that it can be had for around $900.

Anyway, the guy was trying to say that all of these stand alone units are going to be obsolete because of technology advances. I agree with him to a point. So he was pushing the M-box. He was trying to point out that it came with pro-tools and that was the big selling point. But it is only protools LE, which is the light version? He was also saying that getting a mixing board would be a mistake. Now if I wanted to go with a computer solution, then I think a mixing board would be useful. Additionally, I have an old mac G3 233 mhz running os 8.6. So getting any computer solution is not compatible with most of these until I upgrade my computer situation.

So was GC throwing me a line?


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Dave
 
I feel a long post coming up.... oh my....

So, you gotta see what you want to do with your equipement. First of all, how many tracks do you want to record? If you just need 2 at most (so no drum-recording, or more than 1 musician at the same time) you'll make different choices as when you need say 32 tracks....

Then, do you need portability? Will you be recording at your homestudio only, or will you move around, go record a gig there, a demo there,... Look into the future, if you're planning to record a band somewhere the next few years, you better foresee it. There's plenty of upgrades left to do before you'll even think of upgrading you recording platform.

If you need portability, you gotta consider this too: how portable is your studio when you have to carry around 10 mic stands, a variety of mics, a mixer, a rack with outboard gear,.... Will it matter adding a screen, keyboard and mouse to that? It's not THAT much more carrying around.

So, then you need to figure out what you want to do. Setting up a pc is alot more work than just plugging in the workstation. You'll have a learning curve on both; but at least the workstation will work the way it is written in your manual, without a driver mess and conflicting hardware etc...

Do you have a pc already? If you want your recording pc to be reliable, and stable at all times, better not use it for all those other things you want to use it for.

Workstations will never be obsolete. No, they will. When PC's and Macs stop crashing, and all the hardware/driver-blahblah is figured out. :rolleyes:

I know guys with loaaaads of gear, and they record on a Mackie HD 24-track. Has a PC in it, even looks like a pc, might even be running on windows, but it won't crash, it's stable, and it it works right out of the box.

I've worked with protools on a Mac G4. You need a better pc if you want to have more plugins running simultaniously. And you will.

As for me, I have a VS1880, which I use for tracking and demo's, and a laptop with Audiophile USB, that I use for the same thing. Haven't worked alot on the laptop though, didn't have the time and chance yet. I like plugins though. A pc is easier to work with than a workstation, you got a BIG screen, or even 2 screens... But still, you don't need all this luxury if you just want to lay down some demotracks for a guitarband. Just plug in and play, that's what I use the VS1880 for...
 
Yo DAVE + M:

I use the Yam 2816 -- a nice box -- takes a while to get into the manual but burning the CD's is pretty easy and even CLEAR in the manual.

I'd call all the 800 numbers of vendors if you want the AW16. There is a AW16 site for assistance too, which was started by someone who also taps into BBS. Jeffree can tell you where the site is if you can't find it.

As Roel said, you need to think through your needs. I think you will be able to do good stuff with the SIAB AW16. You should be able to negotiate a better price. Try Full Compass, plus Sweetwater, plus MF and any other 800 number you can get. Even GRANDMA'S might be a good try.

Green Hornet :D :p :cool:
 
Thanks all,

Yeah, my needs are just for myself. I will probably set something up with my keyboard to play along with and compose from that. So I would probably only need a couple of inputs. But in the future, I will be getting a drum set. I had one when I was growing up, but it got lost in a flood and I never replaced it. So I want to have something that will be capable of recording drums. This is why I think the m-box is not for me.

I wanted to spend no more than a grand for this. I will be buying a new mac by years end. I need it for video stuff, but this will not get me recording now.

So back to getting a mixer. My thoughts were to get a mixer so that I could hook up my keyboard and plug my guitar in so that I can practice and play along. The reason for the mixer is that I can use headphones and not disturb the wife watching tv, since this will be set up in the back of the family room. I don't have a big house so a deadicated room is not an option for me. Also, with a mixer, I'd be able to mix drums in the future. What about MOTU 896 for this purpose? Then I can at least practice stuff and then connect it to a computer in the future.

Dave
 
Standalone DAW...

I don't have nearly the experience of some others, but I'd like to weigh in on the obsolete thing. I think the GC salesperson doesn't know what they're talking about. DAW's and PC's are simply two different ways to achieve the same end. One does not necessarily do this better than another. For portability and system stability it's awfully hard to beat a DAW that has been designed to be ONLY that from the get-go. PC's are notorious for crashing, freezing etc., and while they're great, they have hardly rendered DAW's obsolete.

I think a PC really shines when it comes to editing -- far easier when done as a drag, cut and paste with a huge screen. But so what? I can edit perfectly with my Fostex VF80 DAW and my commercials made in my house, and on location, are better than what I was doing using a radio station's PC loaded with Sound Forge. Why? Because I can spend more time, and the basic sound quality is a wash between the two. On a PC, tons of effects can be added without much hassle, but this is not of interest to me.

Essentially, a quality, 16bit CD recording produced on ANYTHING will never be obsolete. If I were you, I'd also consider the Fostex VF160 DAW. They don't look as nice as a Yamaha, but they are very well built 16 track CDR machines, with a 20gig HD... (Maybe now, 30gig). The manuals are not well written though.

By the way, James Taylor's Hourglass (a beaut recording) was done on a 16bit Yamaha DAW. Have a listen to how great obsolescence can sound!
 
I'd take a good look at the VF160 to see what it has to offer. With the VF160 it's not about computer vs. standalone but computer with standalone.

With VF160 you can have the best of both worlds if you get a soundcard with adat i/o for your computer. You can take the VF160 with you when you need to to track away from your home and when you come back you can send the tracks down the adat light pipe for editig on computer. I can recommend the Terratec EWS88D ($199) soundcard as I have one in my computer. I believe that you can easily find a VF160 + EWS88D + n-Track Studio software for about $1000 and that combo will wipe the floor with the AW16G.

BTW if you need to record more than 8 tracks simultaneously like when tracking a live band that's no problem with VF160 using external AD-converter to input 8 extra tracks. You cant do that with the AW16G.
 
Guitar Center and my purchase...

I went through this decision making process back in February on a fairly limited budget. The folks at my local Guitar Center were absolutely no help. I was thinking PC/laptop/DAW possibilities and basically they were willing to sell me anything I was leaning toward buying. This board helped a lot, and reading, and thinking. A RELIABLE laptop scenario would have been cool, but I heard some things about not being able to get fast enough HD specs, etc., and I couldn't afford to fully spec out a new laptop just for recording. I am sure I could have done with a less cutting edge machine, but the folks at GC were no help. So I got the Fostex VF80CDR at Musician's Friend (who later matched a price from JDSound of $599.00!)

Here is my prediction!!!! In a year or two, companies like Fostex, Tascam, Yamaha, Zoom are going to put out standalone DAWs about the size of a laptop (thicker to accomodate a 3.5" drive) that will have faders for 12to16 tracks, with a plug in mouse. The top of the unit that covers the faders when not in use will be a 12 - 14 inch screen that folds out like a laptop screen does. SO, you will then have a self-contained DAW, with a big screen, that has been totally designed for digital recording, and has just about everything going for it. This could easily be done for under a grand and I think they'd sell like crazy...
 
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